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Incursion Tears Start here
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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-07-12 19:33:14 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
As mentioned already a huge factor in this is that not all of the Incursions are being run, there is no lack of sites.


Beside the logistic that I can see from moving from contellation A to constellation B to run it, is there other problem prventing some incursion from being run?
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#42 - 2013-07-12 19:55:08 UTC
Kithran wrote:


1) Continue trying to run sites, being contested and just giving the contesting fleet more isk and they get no isk
2) Stop running - they get no isk and the contesting fleet still gets isk
3) Kill the mom - they get no isk but the contesting fleet also gets no isk
4) Form a 80+ man hq fleet - they get no isk but the contesting fleet gets no isk however it takes a lot longer than 3.

Are you really surprised people choose option 3? Especially if an ISN fleet chooses to contest over going to an unoccupied site repeatedly?


Holy damn you got a tunnel vision which is off the scale.

5) Go to a different site, that being VG, Assault. you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk
6) Go to a different incursion constellation, you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk.
7) Call for more dedicated pilots, those there can fly more specialized ships, as faction bs more suited for contesting. You make isk, the contesting fleet doesn't make isk.
Kithran
#43 - 2013-07-12 20:37:39 UTC
Nadia Gallen wrote:
Kithran wrote:


1) Continue trying to run sites, being contested and just giving the contesting fleet more isk and they get no isk
2) Stop running - they get no isk and the contesting fleet still gets isk
3) Kill the mom - they get no isk but the contesting fleet also gets no isk
4) Form a 80+ man hq fleet - they get no isk but the contesting fleet gets no isk however it takes a lot longer than 3.

Are you really surprised people choose option 3? Especially if an ISN fleet chooses to contest over going to an unoccupied site repeatedly?


Holy damn you got a tunnel vision which is off the scale.

5) Go to a different site, that being VG, Assault. you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk
6) Go to a different incursion constellation, you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk.
7) Call for more dedicated pilots, those there can fly more specialized ships, as faction bs more suited for contesting. You make isk, the contesting fleet doesn't make isk.


5 - So you make less isk, always assuming there aren't other fleets running VG or Assault?
6 - When the contesting fleet has a habit of closing all bar one incursion precisely so they can contest?
7 - And everyone who you have to kick out of your fleet makes no isk?
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-07-12 20:38:32 UTC
So, the way incursions were meant to be run is the wrong way of doing it?
Epic Rupture
Trident Holdings
#45 - 2013-07-12 22:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Epic Rupture
The amount of bias information in this thread is ammunsing Lol

ISN ran an HQ fleet for close to seven (7) hours Thursday. The the HQ system was also being run by Warp To Me (WTM?) and TVP for most of that time, with DIN forming for about an hour at around 21:00 I believe.

In that time, ISN contested WTM and TVP a total of five (5) times (3 WTM, 2 TVP) as the situations presented themselves. ISN didn't hunt them down and didn't prevent them from making isk all day. No one threatend to take down the MOM if contested. Hell, even TVP contested WTM once that I know of.

Once DIN's fleet went active, we were given a warrning that if we contested, they would pop the MOM. So of course, ISN contested, and this one was not "by chance" (FYI: If you guys -DIN- would just run sites and not talk trash, we wouldn't be nearly as ammused by your tears as we are). After a heated moment, DIN stood down and moved incursions without taking the MOM down.

Its funny that three (3) fleets can run almost all day with no problems, but once DIN comes to play everything goes to ****.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#46 - 2013-07-12 23:28:31 UTC
Kithran wrote:
Wrong - the fleets that are running 23/7 are easily doing a lot more of the work - they are the ones who drive the influence down to zero and keep it at zero.

Kithran, I respect many of your posts but sorry, the constellation influence bar is really not a factor here, one shiny fleet can grind the influence from 100% down to 0% in under 3 hours. The idea that the community needs TVP to grind it down and keep it down is a myth that’s been disproved many times.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#47 - 2013-07-12 23:35:39 UTC
One more note; If you don't like contest and competition then log off the game and play Mah-Jong or Solitaire, the problem will solve itself when there is no one left to contest.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#48 - 2013-07-12 23:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nadia Gallen
Nadia Gallen wrote:
Kithran wrote:



Holy damn you got a tunnel vision which is off the scale.

5) Go to a different site, that being VG, Assault. you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk
6) Go to a different incursion constellation, you make isk, the contesting fleet make isk.
7) Call for more dedicated pilots, those there can fly more specialized ships, as faction bs more suited for contesting. You make isk, the contesting fleet doesn't make isk.


5 - So you make less isk, always assuming there aren't other fleets running VG or Assault?
6 - When the contesting fleet has a habit of closing all bar one incursion precisely so they can contest?
7 - And everyone who you have to kick out of your fleet makes no isk?


5 - if you expect to sit in HQ system and print isk all day, without anyone interfering in any way or form, then you should stick with mining ice belts. There ARE many communities able and willing to form HQ fleets and try to get a piece of that cake, it is by that demand that you end up with contests, either way you spin it.
6 - it isn't the contesting fleets there is closing down the incursions, if you haven't noticed yet, it is the contested fleets there tends to do that.
7 - it is an option, i didn't say it would be the one you had to choose, I just gave you some more options, to choose from.

To show you that you are allowed to think for yourself, and not always choose the path there continously leads up the spiral rollercoaster of emorage, which a certain german FC tends to have as his only option.
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-07-13 00:31:41 UTC
No, really? TVP has grown a spine to give the bully a bloody nose? Now that's the news. Big smile

Need more ISN tears.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#50 - 2013-07-13 00:35:01 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
No, really? TVP has grown a spine to give the bully a bloody nose? Now that's the news. Big smile

Need some ISN tears.

Fixed that for you, I haven't seen any ISN tears, But I can understand why you would want some. Big smile

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-07-13 00:38:18 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Zwo Zateki wrote:
No, really? TVP has grown a spine to give the bully a bloody nose? Now that's the news. Big smile

Need some ISN tears.

Fixed that for you, I haven't seen any ISN tears, But I can understand why you would want some. Big smile

Shall I buy you some glasses? Heard that old ladies could use some of those.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#52 - 2013-07-13 00:40:00 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Zwo Zateki wrote:
No, really? TVP has grown a spine to give the bully a bloody nose? Now that's the news. Big smile

Need some ISN tears.

Fixed that for you, I haven't seen any ISN tears, But I can understand why you would want some. Big smile

Shall I buy you some glasses? Heard that old ladies could use some of those.

LOL

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#53 - 2013-07-13 09:21:09 UTC
thank you for donating more isn tears :) delicious!
Nobre Langel
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-07-13 11:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nobre Langel
Epic Rupture wrote:

Once DIN's fleet went active, we were given a warrning that if we contested, they would pop the MOM. So of course, ISN contested, and this one was not "by chance" (FYI: If you guys -DIN- would just run sites and not talk trash, we wouldn't be nearly as ammused by your tears as we are). After a heated moment, DIN stood down and moved incursions without taking the MOM down.

Its funny that three (3) fleets can run almost all day with no problems, but once DIN comes to play everything goes to ****.

stirr funny how derusionar oul own pirots ale. That evening we had a contest freet folmed up with idunno maybe 47pirots, cant lemember any smacktark flom rocar. We pleheated the mom anyway and tlied to bait DIN/tvp into kirring it by contesting them and walping to the kundarini light aftelwalds, which faired cause they didnt take the bait. Oh and we maybe rost a scimi for the rorz cuz we so plo rawr. Lemembel we nevel contest when we could possibry rose.

ISN 2 : 9 DIN
Kithran
#55 - 2013-07-13 16:56:27 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Kithran wrote:
Wrong - the fleets that are running 23/7 are easily doing a lot more of the work - they are the ones who drive the influence down to zero and keep it at zero.

Kithran, I respect many of your posts but sorry, the constellation influence bar is really not a factor here, one shiny fleet can grind the influence from 100% down to 0% in under 3 hours. The idea that the community needs TVP to grind it down and keep it down is a myth that’s been disproved many times.


Actually you've just proved my point - if its takes 3 hours to drive the influence bar down that's probably at least half the time ISN will be flying during a weekday evening. Or are you trying to say that while the influence is being ground down sites don't go slower and ships need more tank?

I'm not saying TVP is needed to drive the influence down and keep it down - I'm saying ISN are reaping the benefits of other people's work by turning up when the influence is already at zero.

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#56 - 2013-07-13 17:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Kithran wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Kithran wrote:
Wrong - the fleets that are running 23/7 are easily doing a lot more of the work - they are the ones who drive the influence down to zero and keep it at zero.

Kithran, I respect many of your posts but sorry, the constellation influence bar is really not a factor here, one shiny fleet can grind the influence from 100% down to 0% in under 3 hours. The idea that the community needs TVP to grind it down and keep it down is a myth that’s been disproved many times.


Actually you've just proved my point - if its takes 3 hours to drive the influence bar down that's probably at least half the time ISN will be flying during a weekday evening. Or are you trying to say that while the influence is being ground down sites don't go slower and ships need more tank?

I'm not saying TVP is needed to drive the influence down and keep it down - I'm saying ISN are reaping the benefits of other people's work by turning up when the influence is already at zero.


Well sites do go slower when the influence is above 50%, we (ISN) usually just add a Logi or two. but once we break the 50% mark our completion times level out.

Two weeks ago ISN moved their HQ fleet to a new incursion, at 100% influence we immediately started doing TPPH's and after 5 or 6 of them we moved to NRF's and then TCRC's with no one there except us for the first hour or two. By the time TVP got a fleet up and running the influence was down to 35%-40% Red and within the next hour it was gone entirely.

We ran a fleet for 13 hours that weekday, and had probably 4 or 5 actual contests (Including the MOM that someone tried to stealth pop) I know the rule of thumb when anything happens is 'Blame ISN' but is that really helping anyone out besides the DIN propaganda machine.

And as a last note, I understand mission runners that turn down a mission 5j away cause they can't be bothered to go that far to make 3 million ISK. But an Incursion runner that wont go 20js to make 2 to 3 billion? Exactly how lazy can someone really be?

Heck stop running Incursion and go get a part time job to buy and sell PLEX for ISK, it's the only way to make this game any easier.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ginger Barbarella
#57 - 2013-07-13 17:23:23 UTC
I approve of this thread. Smile The idea of dedicated fleets to kill the mothership just to f*ck with the farmers give me a warm fuzzy feeling--- down there. Pirate

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#58 - 2013-07-13 17:59:00 UTC
Nobre Langel wrote:
Epic Rupture wrote:

Once DIN's fleet went active, we were given a warrning that if we contested, they would pop the MOM. So of course, ISN contested, and this one was not "by chance" (FYI: If you guys -DIN- would just run sites and not talk trash, we wouldn't be nearly as ammused by your tears as we are). After a heated moment, DIN stood down and moved incursions without taking the MOM down.

Its funny that three (3) fleets can run almost all day with no problems, but once DIN comes to play everything goes to ****.

stirr funny how derusionar oul own pirots ale. That evening we had a contest freet folmed up with idunno maybe 47pirots, cant lemember any smacktark flom rocar. We pleheated the mom anyway and tlied to bait DIN/tvp into kirring it by contesting them and walping to the kundarini light aftelwalds, which faired cause they didnt take the bait. Oh and we maybe rost a scimi for the rorz cuz we so plo rawr. Lemembel we nevel contest when we could possibry rose.

ISN 2 : 9 DIN


This has got to be the worst blob of words I have ever seen. There is this thing called a school. Go to it and learn how to type correctly.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-07-13 21:56:05 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
I approve of this thread. Smile The idea of dedicated fleets to kill the mothership just to f*ck with the farmers give me a warm fuzzy feeling--- down there. Pirate


The problem is that it's 2 group of farmer and one was so pissed at the other they decided the best way to stop them from farming was to release a huge swarm of locust. It's not like they are not eathing thier own crops too right?
Solomunio Kzenig
Incursions Missions and Mining
#60 - 2013-07-14 10:38:48 UTC
Nadia Gallen wrote:


DIN got a HQ fleet up much of the day, granted it is flown by perhaps 4-6 people at max.


Ahahahahaha, 1. DIN do not have HQ fleets up most of the day; even at weekends its unusual for DIN to start before 16:00 at the earliest and 2. average number of players in a DIN HQ fleet is usually around 20 or so, often its closer to 30.