Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I suggest that a new low slot "Cargohold Alteration" module be created instead of re-creating ships with various specialty cargoholds. Limitations and bonuses would include prohibiting the use of more than one "Cargohold Alteration" module at a time and each type of module would change the capacity and cargohold type based on the specific role. I believe that this would allow for less racial imbalance.


To answer starman smith, refunding Cargohold Optimization rigs would not be in keeping with the past decision to not refund them for both Mining Barges and Exhumers when the original change occurred for Ore Holds.

So with all these changes, is hauling going to become Iteron Online? As it stands, theres no reason at all anymore to use anything other then Iterons. They now have the best ore haulers and best PI haulers. With the rebalance, most of the other ships are pretty well balanced against their counter parts so the few k difference in cargohold space isnt worth training into another race.

All new players to the game will simply train Gallente and ignore the other races. The best bonuses shouldnt have been given only to one race. The hoarder should have at least received the Ore bonus. Good job in "balancing" these ships.

Why no POS bay? (moon goo, modules, fuel and control towers) Seriously? You have a bay for everything else ... I mean, who needs a special "ammo bay"?

Also, I do agree, to keep the game from becoming a matter of pretty much everyone training into Itty's and nothing else, you should swap out the Itty IV Ore Hold with the Hoarder Ammo Hold. The other thing I'd like to point out is I don't think too kindly of the special Holds being larger even before adding in the Cargohold space then the largest sized Industrials of each race can even begin to think about getting with top skills and fittings... I think that the special Bay Hold ship bays should only add up to an equivalent amount, after adding in modified with fittings and skills cargobays.

I lost track a bit on what is actually still open that Caldari or Amarr could tackle on.

I mean, there's ore, ammo, PI, "stuff".
Somebody mentioned the necessity of a moon-goo hauler. I don't know how effective that could be as moon goo is indeed quite "specialized" (if not even more than PI commodity bay).

I suppose this is why a ship (t3 or whatever) with modular bays is very attractive. You could then actually adapt the ship to the given situation rather than trying to field a flotilla of different Industrial Ships.

Just theorycrafting.

[quoteAlso you have also effectively just made the ORE Primae pretty much redundant![/quote]

Yeah, makes me quote "What a Shame" meme :(

Reduce it to 2 industrials per race. 1 for stuff and then give each race a speciality bay. Something you can build upon for T2, Freighters and Jump Freighters.

Yes you are going to have to retire a few industrials, but do it right, instead of continuing the 'Itty' mistake any further.

I think in many cases you are correct, but I also feel that a fairly large percent of people using T1 haulers are hauling modules, goods, and other items that will not fit into the more specialized bays.

I like the changes.

While your at it, can you get the art team to remake the Iteron. That thing is butt-ugly.

yk

Finished reading the whole thread, and Wow...

Ok so first things first. CCP Rise, this is a far better proposal than the first balance pass. Good job and I hope that someday you and the art guys can get around to adding some new industrial ships that are just as unique as the specialized ones that the Gallente are getting.

Ok so some popular arguments that have been discussed are that the specialist haulers are OP and that the Gallente are getting special favors, treatment, and/or a leg-up over the competition, the list of accusations goes on and on. Several people have made valid claims that this will just cause various min-maxers, number-crunchers, theory crafters, and EFT warriors to gravitate towards the Gal industrial line for their "beneficial advantages". Here is a 2 bit piece of wisdom from an old pen and dice roller... this sort of thing will always happen and unless you want everything to be carbon copies that do the exact the same things, you are not going to stop people from finding the path of least resistance with the greatest gain. In Eve it's called optimization, risk assessment, cost-benefit analysis, or any other "buzzword" that someone has coined take your pick they all mean the same thing. Just ask any D&D player to tell you which class is better and you'll get a threadnaught equivalent explanation of percentages and probabilities.

So lets look at the advantages of these specialists have. Keep in mind I'm just listing a few of the biggies.

+They haul a lot (over 60k in specialized bay capacity)
+You only have to train one racial industrial skill to get access to them (Gall for the itties and Minnie for the hoarder)
+They can fit a decent tank without sacrificing their cargo capacity
+They'll be relatively cheap (unless someone screws the market over)
+Easy for new players to make use of them in a short time after rolling their toon

Ok there is some pretty good advantages here. Now lets look at the downside.

-The specialized cargo bay is limited to only carrying that item type (ie. Mineral Bay=minerals and so on)
-The specialized bay can be increased through skill (just like the other industrials) but can not be enhanced with cargo expanders, astro rigs, or GSC's (which the generic cargo carrying industrials).
-You don't need a ship scanner to have an idea of what could be in them, only to know if they are empty or not. "Hey look an Itty mark 2, it must have a crap ton of minerals. Locking target for ganking."
-You can only fit so much on one of those ships for a tank.
-You can't carry courier contracts in a special cargo bay which means no super obfuscating plastic wrap.
-They are stated like the other super haulers.

Hmm interesting that have quite a number of disadvantages too.

For a moment, lets not talk about these specialist ships. Think for a second what this represents. CCP said it himself, this is something he wanted to do initially. Couple that with the rumors of something big coming down the pipe in the near future for the industrialists of EVE. Things like building a your own Jump gates. Now lets postulate and theorize on this. Is it possible that they may just design and model new industrials later on down the road for that are specialized for tasks that haven't been invented yet. Hmm, makes your mind boggle and wonder of the possibilities.

The Art team is busy now sure, but who is to say that the next ship design contest leans towards new industrials. If they did design new industrials and add them later as things are now, we would probably see one for Amarr and three for Caldari. But that just one possibility.

So stop looking at it as an imbalance. Try looking at it as CCP experimenting with this new idea. There are many possibilities with this concept.

Oh well my 2 isk I guess.

Your astonishment surely arises from your absolute and total ignorance of size, man hours, and current work load of the art team. You arrogantly assume to know more about what the art team can and can't do in any given time frame and also know more about what they are or aren't doing with their time currently.

Please accept that this will always be true and stop being whiney about CCP not currently dedicating time on new industrial ship models and be happy that even after 10 years, EVE Online is still an amazing game and that maybe, JUST maybe, CCP has a clue how to do the whole game development thing.