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Tonight's fleet fight in Z9PP-H

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Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#201 - 2013-07-05 02:47:29 UTC
GRIEV3R wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Evening capsuleers,

We’d like to ask that you keep discussions and questions relating to tonight’s fleet fight in Z9PP-H to this thread so as to keep CCP responses centralized, and to make this the go to place for questions and answers.

We’d first like to explain the situation, and what exactly has happened so far.

Owing to the heavy load in Z9PP-H, caused by a fleet flight involving 2200+ pilots deeply embroiled in the Fountain War, the decision was made to remap all other systems away from the node on which Z9PP-H was located in order to improve responsiveness and playability. We were later than we wanted to be to try to reinforce the node (obviously) since it was a more organic-type battle without a fleet fight notification. Once we fully assessed the situation and what was at play, we figured it was time to go for it and the remap in preparation of what was set to be "Asakai 2.0".

This was put into play at 22:14 UTC, however due to an error in communication, all systems including Z9PP-H itself were moved from the node, which caused everyone who was in the system and was involved in the ongoing fleet fight to be disconnected from Tranquility.

The system of Z9PP-H was brought back online and made accessible as fast as possible, however we realize that the mass disconnect of everyone involved in the fight means that ships are potentially saved by their pilots not logging back in once they have been disconnected, or are lost due to other unforeseen consequences of the disconnect.

All pilots involved have our sincerest apologies for this error, and we are currently looking to review our policy of action in these types of situation to ensure that this is not repeated.

Many of us here at CCP were watching various player streams of the battle as it unfolded and cannot apologize enough for such a mistake, or for disrupting what was setting out to be an unbelievably epic fleet fight

If you have any questions or comments, please keep them to this thread as a centralized point of contact, and we’ll see about answering them.



Thank you for the explanation. I'm willing to accept that it was an honest mistake and y'all at CCP were genuinely trying to take steps to make the battle better, not worse.

This is an epic "Oops!" but it is no more than that. Forum warriors on both sides of the Fountain War will do their utmost to spin this in favor of their side; others with rage and sputter and whine and unsub. Those people are idiots. This was an honest mistake, and honest mistakes are always forgivable.

This, on SO many levels!

...
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#202 - 2013-07-05 02:49:00 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Really dude? You haven't called in not even half of your reinforcements but let some 30+ caps get killed?

They weren't in system yet, like the 300 man fleet you had sitting in J5A was not in system yet.

Ask your leadership (presuming you're allowed to talk to them) what was happening in Serpentis Prime.

SanDooD wrote:
Let me guess: you had us where you wanted us.

Well, we did save our caps, didn't we?

SanDooD wrote:
Maybe you had N3 and PL supers waiting to jump in, maybe that's your support, but even the "we've got supers" card has been played too many times and one day the bluff will be called.

I am pretty sure everyone in Eve is waiting for CFC to drop supers. Everyone.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
MyBoy friday
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-07-05 02:49:53 UTC
I've now had a chance to look at the kills delivered by both sides of this fight.
The real beauty of all of this is that Test, PL, NC. and all are able to completely sidestep the fact that with everything they had, they were being soundly trounced by Goons and friends
It's actually kinda hilarious. If I were Test, I would be on here poking repeatedly at Goons to further diminish what actually happened in that fight.
People were saying the other day that rage over all of Nulli's space being dropped would work in Test's favor. Judging by the beating Test received today, that is obviously wrong. I suspect however, that the rage that the Goons have over this is likely to result in more dunking of Test and friends over the next few days.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#204 - 2013-07-05 02:51:29 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
Ryuu Shi wrote:
Force all ships that were in the fight before the issue happened, on an agreed time, to spawn back in and fight it out in the same conditions and let history remake itself.


Because CCP can force players to log online when they don't want to, it's part of the EULA.

Does disconnecting when you're agressed require you to be online for your ship to be in space?

Something about a log off timer.... but logs show nothing

Read the post I quoted. "Force all ships.. on an agreed time to spawn back in and fight it out." The only way to do that is to force players to log in. This suggestion has nothing to with the aggression timers. If the system had come back up immediately with the old aggression timers still running, that would be perfectly fair. But that's not what this capsuleer is suggesting.
Powers Sa
#205 - 2013-07-05 02:53:39 UTC
No one is unsubbing from this game over caps getting saved accidentally.

I just want to know if they're working on solutions for stuff like this so it happens less in the future. I we would have applied DPS quicker, more would have died. S*** Happens.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Mechaet
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2013-07-05 02:54:15 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:

Everyone f*cks up once and a while, it's apart of being human!

To say otherwise is to admit you're a ******* ******.

I will agree with this and note that for this very reason any online services company worth their salt boils down global commands like this to copy-paste so fat-fingering never occurs. Change control verifies the command line to be used and approves the command string to be issued, the command is copied, and pasted. No screwups, no fat-fingers, no unnecessary downtime.

CCP, I'm between contracts at the moment if you need someone to come in there and align processes.
Alexander Omega
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2013-07-05 02:55:58 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

The first part is right, but the second part is wrong. CFC has lost more moons than us. Look north on the third timer my son.

Have we? Are you including what Pizza has grabbed so far, and do you even know where all the R64s are? Because we've been taking some that no one seemed to give two fucks about, also; at least we've been putting stront in ours. And Molle is playing goon pong, we taught him that game, but we called it BoB pong.

Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

You do realize that N3 has a 200 or 300 man slowcat fleet deployed to Fountain?

Those were primarily TEST carriers dieing, and they wouldn't have been replaced any time soon, if ever. That's a pretty big deal, even if you have friends to prop you up, ~100 less carriers that we have to worry about showing up, ~100 less to rep structures, ~100 less to move stuff around, make money, and be all around really damn useful for the day to day functioning of an alliance and its members.

Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

I don't understand how you guys think you were going to kill ships you didn't kill, when we hadn't even called in half of our reinforcements yet and we had you almost at a standstill.

You have a point, there hasn't really been a good breakdown on what else was forming up at the time, we had a good number of our own getting ready to come in as well. What sucks is that we'll never know.

Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:

Do you think it is just a coincidence that CFC progress in fountain has been going backwards for 2 weeks?

Welcome to an old school sov meatgrinder, back and forth, back and forth,we did this for years when we were fighting in the south and east. Settle in kids, with any luck, this is the Third Great War.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#208 - 2013-07-05 02:56:07 UTC
Gerald Fnord wrote:
You goons need to thank CCP for saving your fleet as it was getting crushed. #nomad

Yeah, suppose you right. Fleet was crushed by the number of wrecks you guys left behind. Those Rokhs were not needed anyway, isn't it?Lol
...you poor boyz will get SRP prolly from your allies, isn't it? Big smile
Mechaet
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2013-07-05 02:57:20 UTC
Our fleets were crushed under the heaping piles of loot we were trying to get off the field.
Damian Gene
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#210 - 2013-07-05 02:59:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Damian Gene wrote:
I got bat-phoned, and was on my way home from the Holiday to join in on the action. (I skipped out on family to join this battle)

This is a major mess-up by CCP. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.

However, with that said, the benefit of doubt must be given.
I forgive you.

I do wish CCP could compensate in some way.


Learn from your mistakes. NEVER AGAIN.

You bailed on your family to play in 10% TiDi??? Straight



I bailed on beer drinking, and blowing up fireworks, to play in 10% tidi
Keter Zero
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2013-07-05 03:01:36 UTC
So CCP pushed a button and gave TEST free carriers? On the 4th of July? Is this specifically to snub all the European mans that made the fight for us CFC?!

Why.
Jim from Accounting
The New Yinzers
#212 - 2013-07-05 03:02:02 UTC
Yes, people make mistakes. When people make mistakes of this magnitude at work, though, they get fired. Is anyone getting fired for this?
Alexander Omega
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2013-07-05 03:03:03 UTC
Damian Gene wrote:

I bailed on beer drinking, and blowing up fireworks, to play in 10% tidi


This.

I DEMAND THAT CCP GIVES ALL INVOLVED BUNCH OF QUAFE AND FIREWORKS AND LAUNCHERS!
Damian Gene
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#214 - 2013-07-05 03:06:23 UTC
Alexander Omega wrote:
Damian Gene wrote:

I bailed on beer drinking, and blowing up fireworks, to play in 10% tidi


This.

I DEMAND THAT CCP GIVES ALL INVOLVED BUNCH OF QUAFE AND FIREWORKS AND LAUNCHERS!



*Likes*
Parris Vasilkovsky
Vasilkovsky Interstellar
#215 - 2013-07-05 03:08:28 UTC
Hey CCP,

Just wanna let you know your server code is a sack of crap and you should really devote more resources to it and to better DevOps.

Sincerely,
A Not **** Developer-in-Arms.
eddict
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#216 - 2013-07-05 03:11:16 UTC
Jim from Accounting wrote:
Yes, people make mistakes. When people make mistakes of this magnitude at work, though, they get fired. Is anyone getting fired for this?


Come on we can't burn a test dev/admin every time we meta-game a server crash. On the other hand if the tears are this sweet every time it might be worth it.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#217 - 2013-07-05 03:15:00 UTC
Placid09 wrote:
I think your best bet would be to not touch the systems. Changing the node settings gives too many possibilities for mistakes like this, and also messes with the fleets in transit to the system.


IMHO the best option is to properly automate the re-homing system by testing it on unpopulated and low-populated systems first.

There should also be facilities in the proxy severs and client software to make the transition between sol nodes as seamless as possible, something like a "pause" I structure to the client from the proxy, then a "resume" once the sol has been relocated and is running properly.

Aggression timers most certainly should be maintained over downtimes and restarts, especially considering downtime is as short as four minutes these days.

In short, the way to ensure that Goons have less to cry over in the future is for CCP to deliberately try making the same mistakes on low pop/empty nodes to see what breaks, how it breaks, and how the server software, proxy software, client software and migration process can be hardened against failures.

TL;DR: CCP needs to fail more and harder to get the migration process working better.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sala Cameron
Free-Space-Ranger
#218 - 2013-07-05 03:16:29 UTC
I don't want to know how many kills I've missed by nodes crashing or accidentally moved systems, but hey, welcome to EVE.
Morgan Oakes
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2013-07-05 03:19:07 UTC
Jim from Accounting wrote:
Yes, people make mistakes. When people make mistakes of this magnitude at work, though, they get fired. Is anyone getting fired for this?


maybe at your min wage pizza-delivery job they get fired. in the real world, they get promoted to senior-management.
Mad Ani
Meta Zero
Meta Reloaded
#220 - 2013-07-05 03:19:56 UTC
I had 5564 people tuned in the stream when the node crashed...

Quite embarrassing, but I didn't blurt about it to the viewers. Showed them another fight in the meantime, however that was pretty bad. I lost all the viewers as the fight had ended What?

http://www.twitch.tv/mad_ani/c/2524548

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