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Tonight's fleet fight in Z9PP-H

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SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-07-05 02:23:36 UTC
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Alexander Omega wrote:
See, what's really getting to us is that we know TEST is low on cash and desperately behind on reimbursements, and are hemorrhaging R64 moons at an impressive rate.

The first part is right, but the second part is wrong. CFC has lost more moons than us. Look north on the third timer my son.

Alexander Omega wrote:
They don't have the means to replace what they lost tonight, and what they were about to lose would have been crippling, and probably would have saved us at least a month of structure grinding.

You do realize that N3 has a 200 or 300 man slowcat fleet deployed to Fountain?

Alexander Omega wrote:
Those supers and dreads and carriers that the CFC would have lost had those nodes not gone down? ******* take 'em! We have the luxury of being able to absorb that and keep going, TEST doesn't, and that's why this sucks so much.

I don't know if CCP realizes how hard they ****** us.

I don't understand how you guys think you were going to kill ships you didn't kill, when we hadn't even called in half of our reinforcements yet and we had you almost at a standstill.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that CFC progress in fountain has been going backwards for 2 weeks?

Don't count kills until they are on your killboard.


Really dude? You haven't called in not even half of your reinforcements but let some 30+ caps get killed? Let me guess: you had us where you wanted us.

If you had those reinforcements, you would have called them and pinged jabber like madmen. Only reinforcements you had were those that died on the field and reshipped and were waiting to bridge via titan only to get roflstomped again.

Maybe you had N3 and PL supers waiting to jump in, maybe that's your support, but even the "we've got supers" card has been played too many times and one day the bluff will be called.
GhostDragoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2013-07-05 02:24:21 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Hold All Fire wrote:
I cannot post from my main -- but I believe I speak for all goons.

What worries me isn't the capitals getting out, or us losing the strategic objective in this system. What really gets under my skin is that my killboard will not reflect my pvp prowess.

I want CCP to manually adjust my killboard so that it reflects what should have happened, roughly 200-300 test carriers dying.


And exactly how do you think the mechanics of this will work? Who will get the killmails for the kills? Do some of the Goon ships get randomly killed too or do all the Goon ships survive? Does CCP just randomly assign the kill shots? The damage scores? Sometimes you just get the shaft and you have to accept it. That's been something Goons have preached to others ad nauseum over and over forever on these forums. This time the tables are turned and the ones impaled on the shaft are you guys. Ho hum. You'll get over it.


No, you don't!!! How do you think the world works? There are ALWAYS other avenues to recoup losses. Most are not in the sense that the average person could comprehend, much less prefer, but there are ways (Legal of course). This is how businesses exist today & continue to profit. If you think any business that's been around for 10 years takes a hit & doesn't do something about it then I fear you have more to learn about IRL, not to mention your power as a customer of ANY business.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2013-07-05 02:26:02 UTC
Alexander Omega wrote:
See, what's really getting to us is that we know TEST is low on cash and desperately behind on reimbursements, and are hemorrhaging R64 moons at an impressive rate. They don't have the means to replace what they lost tonight, and what they were about to lose would have been crippling, and probably would have saved us at least a month of structure grinding. This wasn't like Asaki, there wasn't near as much at stake for either side as there was in Z9 today.

Those supers and dreads and carriers that the CFC would have lost had those nodes not gone down? ******* take 'em! We have the luxury of being able to absorb that and keep going, TEST doesn't, and that's why this sucks so much.

I don't know if CCP realizes how hard they ****** us.


What you have to realize - and btw, I have no stakes in this - is that it was unintentional and I bet you that they are right now kicking themselves.

You don't need to convince them that it was an awful mistake, THEY KNOW.
Dabigorangebarge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2013-07-05 02:27:40 UTC
And they'll just leave the system as it is, for them to make the same mistake again. and again. and again.
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-07-05 02:29:32 UTC
Just stopping by to say how terrible you, CCP, are at your job.

It's not often that this kind of event happens in EVE, and when it does you come around and drop the servers at the climax of the whole battle. All because your engineer can't tell the difference between a Q and a Z.

Thanks for all your good intentions, but next time you're better off just leaving well enough alone.
muhadin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2013-07-05 02:29:32 UTC
After 5 hours why did ccp even bother to transfer the node, the main peak of the battle was over, the cleanup of the enemy fleets was happening and next would've been beating down that carrier blob.

Ccp shouldn't even of risked trying to transfer it to a supernode

"Love the Life you Live, Live the Life you Love"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#187 - 2013-07-05 02:31:24 UTC
GhostDragoon wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
Hold All Fire wrote:
I cannot post from my main -- but I believe I speak for all goons.

What worries me isn't the capitals getting out, or us losing the strategic objective in this system. What really gets under my skin is that my killboard will not reflect my pvp prowess.

I want CCP to manually adjust my killboard so that it reflects what should have happened, roughly 200-300 test carriers dying.


And exactly how do you think the mechanics of this will work? Who will get the killmails for the kills? Do some of the Goon ships get randomly killed too or do all the Goon ships survive? Does CCP just randomly assign the kill shots? The damage scores? Sometimes you just get the shaft and you have to accept it. That's been something Goons have preached to others ad nauseum over and over forever on these forums. This time the tables are turned and the ones impaled on the shaft are you guys. Ho hum. You'll get over it.


No, you don't!!! How do you think the world works? There are ALWAYS other avenues to recoup losses. Most are not in the sense that the average person could comprehend, much less prefer, but there are ways (Legal of course). This is how businesses exist today & continue to profit. If you think any business that's been around for 10 years takes a hit & doesn't do something about it then I fear you have more to learn about IRL, not to mention your power as a customer of ANY business.

EVE Online, harsh, cold, long and hard.

Bend over.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#188 - 2013-07-05 02:32:51 UTC
muhadin wrote:
After 5 hours why did ccp even bother to transfer the node, the main peak of the battle was over, the cleanup of the enemy fleets was happening and next would've been beating down that carrier blob.

Ccp shouldn't even of risked trying to transfer it to a supernode

But that was the important part. Being in TiDi would affect the "watching local as test loses slowcat fleet to subcaps" experience.

Though, many people were spared the "test loses slowcat fleet to subcaps" experience, so perhaps it is for the best.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#189 - 2013-07-05 02:33:33 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Alexander Omega wrote:
See, what's really getting to us is that we know TEST is low on cash and desperately behind on reimbursements, and are hemorrhaging R64 moons at an impressive rate.

The first part is right, but the second part is wrong. CFC has lost more moons than us. Look north on the third timer my son.

Alexander Omega wrote:
They don't have the means to replace what they lost tonight, and what they were about to lose would have been crippling, and probably would have saved us at least a month of structure grinding.

You do realize that N3 has a 200 or 300 man slowcat fleet deployed to Fountain?

Alexander Omega wrote:
Those supers and dreads and carriers that the CFC would have lost had those nodes not gone down? ******* take 'em! We have the luxury of being able to absorb that and keep going, TEST doesn't, and that's why this sucks so much.

I don't know if CCP realizes how hard they ****** us.

I don't understand how you guys think you were going to kill ships you didn't kill, when we hadn't even called in half of our reinforcements yet and we had you almost at a standstill.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that CFC progress in fountain has been going backwards for 2 weeks?

Don't count kills until they are on your killboard.


Really dude? You haven't called in not even half of your reinforcements but let some 30+ caps get killed? Let me guess: you had us where you wanted us.

If you had those reinforcements, you would have called them and pinged jabber like madmen. Only reinforcements you had were those that died on the field and reshipped and were waiting to bridge via titan only to get roflstomped again.

Maybe you had N3 and PL supers waiting to jump in, maybe that's your support, but even the "we've got supers" card has been played too many times and one day the bluff will be called.

Actually, they had themselves where they wanted themselves.

No longer in space

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2013-07-05 02:35:12 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Alexander Omega wrote:
See, what's really getting to us is that we know TEST is low on cash and desperately behind on reimbursements, and are hemorrhaging R64 moons at an impressive rate. They don't have the means to replace what they lost tonight, and what they were about to lose would have been crippling, and probably would have saved us at least a month of structure grinding. This wasn't like Asaki, there wasn't near as much at stake for either side as there was in Z9 today.

Those supers and dreads and carriers that the CFC would have lost had those nodes not gone down? ******* take 'em! We have the luxury of being able to absorb that and keep going, TEST doesn't, and that's why this sucks so much.

I don't know if CCP realizes how hard they ****** us.

What you have to realize - and btw, I have no stakes in this - is that it was unintentional and I bet you that they are right now kicking themselves.

You don't need to convince them that it was an awful mistake, THEY KNOW.

Uh huh. I'll hold judgement until the Commissariat tells me what to believe. I doubt it will be blind faith in the same thing you are trying to push.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#191 - 2013-07-05 02:36:19 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
If CFC had the same amount of participation in the actual game as they do in this thread; they would have won the Fountain war by now. Blink


^^this

Goon tears are best tears.

CCP trolling is best trolling.




☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
ectweak
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2013-07-05 02:37:15 UTC
ectweak wrote:
CCP Falcon:

I have a few questions that I would like to hopefully have answered, if you would be so kind.

1) Understanding the purpose of the system remap, and the desire to have it increase response of the server (node) when pushed past its peak, What is the average increase in ability of the server (node) handling the fight itself, when a remap (when performed properly) occurs? Is this increase in processing ability significant enough to warrant a hot-swap?

2) What safeguards are there in place (or I assume planned) to prevent something such as this occurring?

3) This isn't the first recorded instance of a server swap such as this occurring (and causing one side that believed they had the upper hand to potentially lose out). Is the staff member responsible for today's remap responsible for others as well?

4) Why, is this treated like a standard downtime (where everyone gets out freely), Instead of the server recording ALL combat timers in place in the affected systems, and treating the ships that have these flags accordingly. The example here being that when the server comes back to operation, the timers resume?

I understand that these questions may have already been asked, but left unanswered, and I feel it best to reiterate them.


I apologize, I missed one more question I had

5) How is there NOT a safeguard at the very least in the system transfer protocols to come up with an error, when a non-existent system is entered? (attempting to move everything but Q9PP-H instead of Z9PP-H, should have failed, as there IS no system called Q9PP-H)
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#193 - 2013-07-05 02:37:52 UTC
My tear cup runneth over.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-07-05 02:37:52 UTC
Quote:

Actually, they had themselves where they wanted themselves.

No longer in space


Touché
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-07-05 02:38:30 UTC
CCP, killing EVE since 2003.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#196 - 2013-07-05 02:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
ectweak wrote:
ectweak wrote:
CCP Falcon:

I have a few questions that I would like to hopefully have answered, if you would be so kind.

1) Understanding the purpose of the system remap, and the desire to have it increase response of the server (node) when pushed past its peak, What is the average increase in ability of the server (node) handling the fight itself, when a remap (when performed properly) occurs? Is this increase in processing ability significant enough to warrant a hot-swap?

2) What safeguards are there in place (or I assume planned) to prevent something such as this occurring?

3) This isn't the first recorded instance of a server swap such as this occurring (and causing one side that believed they had the upper hand to potentially lose out). Is the staff member responsible for today's remap responsible for others as well?

4) Why, is this treated like a standard downtime (where everyone gets out freely), Instead of the server recording ALL combat timers in place in the affected systems, and treating the ships that have these flags accordingly. The example here being that when the server comes back to operation, the timers resume?

I understand that these questions may have already been asked, but left unanswered, and I feel it best to reiterate them.


I apologize, I missed one more question I had

5) How is there NOT a safeguard at the very least in the system transfer protocols to come up with an error, when a non-existent system is entered? (attempting to move everything but Q9PP-H instead of Z9PP-H, should have failed, as there IS no system called Q9PP-H)

Why bother, clearly the person putting in the system name has some sort of godly infallibility.


Also, odds on any of these being answered in a through (ie: not a yeah it's like this dwi) manner: long shot, 15:1 against.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#197 - 2013-07-05 02:40:07 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Quote:

Actually, they had themselves where they wanted themselves.

No longer in space

Touché

No, they were not there to touch, let alone shoot.

Edward Pierce wrote:
CCP, killing EVE since 2003.

EVE is dying. Wait no, it is no longer in space. :getout:

:frogout:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#198 - 2013-07-05 02:41:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Evening capsuleers,

We’d like to ask that you keep discussions and questions relating to tonight’s fleet fight in Z9PP-H to this thread so as to keep CCP responses centralized, and to make this the go to place for questions and answers.

We’d first like to explain the situation, and what exactly has happened so far.

Owing to the heavy load in Z9PP-H, caused by a fleet flight involving 2200+ pilots deeply embroiled in the Fountain War, the decision was made to remap all other systems away from the node on which Z9PP-H was located in order to improve responsiveness and playability. We were later than we wanted to be to try to reinforce the node (obviously) since it was a more organic-type battle without a fleet fight notification. Once we fully assessed the situation and what was at play, we figured it was time to go for it and the remap in preparation of what was set to be "Asakai 2.0".

This was put into play at 22:14 UTC, however due to an error in communication, all systems including Z9PP-H itself were moved from the node, which caused everyone who was in the system and was involved in the ongoing fleet fight to be disconnected from Tranquility.

The system of Z9PP-H was brought back online and made accessible as fast as possible, however we realize that the mass disconnect of everyone involved in the fight means that ships are potentially saved by their pilots not logging back in once they have been disconnected, or are lost due to other unforeseen consequences of the disconnect.

All pilots involved have our sincerest apologies for this error, and we are currently looking to review our policy of action in these types of situation to ensure that this is not repeated.

Many of us here at CCP were watching various player streams of the battle as it unfolded and cannot apologize enough for such a mistake, or for disrupting what was setting out to be an unbelievably epic fleet fight

If you have any questions or comments, please keep them to this thread as a centralized point of contact, and we’ll see about answering them.



Thank you for the explanation. I'm willing to accept that it was an honest mistake and y'all at CCP were genuinely trying to take steps to make the battle better, not worse.

This is an epic "Oops!" but it is no more than that. Forum warriors on both sides of the Fountain War will do their utmost to spin this in favor of their side; others with rage and sputter and whine and unsub. Those people are idiots. This was an honest mistake, and honest mistakes are always forgivable.

Just a heads up CCP, the ihub in 4-EP comes out around 1700 tomorrow. So. Yeah.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#199 - 2013-07-05 02:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
GRIEV3R wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
the mass disconnect of everyone involved in the fight means that ships are potentially saved by their pilots not logging back in once they have been disconnected,

Just a heads up CCP, the ihub in 4-EP comes out around 1700 tomorrow. So. Yeah.

Should we upload them our pos.jpg

Or perhaps a link to TEST's timer tracker page?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#200 - 2013-07-05 02:45:49 UTC
GhostDragoon wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Troll = I know 2200+ people who didn't pay that micro-transaction!
Non Troll = Hey, mistakes happen! Granted it was a large capital fight. There isn't much that can be done now that won't **** off even more people!


That's where you're wrong. Sry to point it out, but there is a lot that could be done. For example, take the most recent snapshot of server data that includes aggression timers. From that data, determine the exact number of people that were "engaged" at the time. Then, remove the ships of all who were engaged, on BOTH sides. It's not an exact, but it is the best way to level the outcome of what would have been.

TL:DR Thanks for agreeing, as you just did! Doing this suggestion would **** off even more people, as a percentage of those people would've survived that fight. Who and what exactly is up for debate and we'll never truly know, as there was numerous factors that might have came into play. So just saying, *pop everyone who was engaged* would be a huge financial loss on all sides. THUS PISSING OFF ALOT MORE PEOPLE!!!

For the rest of your psycho-babble, the simple fact remains. There is nothing CCP can do now to fix this problem as it's now in the past. (You can thank time for this.) Granted It upset many people, granted it was in public eye, but worst has happened. Maybe not to CCP but to other developers and games. They moved on, the players moved on, it became another statistic.

Everyone f*cks up once and a while, it's apart of being human!

To say otherwise is to admit you're a ******* ******.

...