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Player Voting for Future Features of game - Good idea or Bad?
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Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#1 - 2013-06-29 18:26:10 UTC
So I understand that the CSM is sort of the voice of the player base, yet that's a popularity contest at best... at least from my eyes. I'll get an evemail saying vote for me.... because I am the Null sec God...or whatever.

Although I know they tend to have a strong voice when there is an obvious insult to players by the Devs...

I am talking about what you can do in EVE and what you will be able to do in future expansions.

Would a Player Voting System work in EVE?

1) An idea is introduced and EACH player gets a vote, say 1 through 10, ten being best,, as to if they want it or not.
2) Simple Ballot in the EVE Management login with Radio buttons and a vote button.
3) The highest Voted items get priority in the Dev project "To Do List".

It seems that many of you (and me sometimes) complain about new features that really didn't do much, at the expense of the Dev's "Little Hearts Breaking".

Since EVE has such a strong core base of players that seem to stick around, why not have a clearer voice than just the CSM when it comes to features.... Let the majority rule?

Yes, or should I just "abstain from ever making another post" and live my quiet meaningless existence in Dodixie spinning my ship and looking at the girl avatar alt I've designed to perfection?
Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-06-29 18:30:21 UTC
Players have a vote, it's called a subscription, and yes that includes buying PLEX to keep your account subscribed.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#3 - 2013-06-29 18:35:04 UTC
Tumahub wrote:
Players have a vote, it's called a subscription, and yes that includes buying PLEX to keep your account subscribed.


I am talking about FEATURES not Subscriptions..... ?

What's with the like it or get out comments?

How does that make the game better...

Haven't you ever watched a movie and picked it apart because the screen writers were all married to their cousins...... let the fan base have a say?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-06-29 18:40:50 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Since EVE has such a strong core base of players that seem to stick around, why not have a clearer voice than just the CSM when it comes to features.... Let the majority rule?


Wouldn't work simply because the politics in this game prevents anything actually democratic.

The CSM vote shows how screwed up the voting system is. To tie it to a feature vote, might as well turn the game into a P2W game (as that is what a vote will amount to -- special interests. Worse, you paying for it).

There's many reasons why the things allowed in EvE isn't in other games. This is one of them. Bloc voting and special interest voting in a game would tear it apart (as they're not interested in the stability but their immediate gains, and at the stake of the game itself. This happens with players are so focused on their wants, they don't see or want to see the ramifications of them...tunnel vision).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#5 - 2013-06-29 18:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Traditionally CCP just come up with stuff and then implement it. Not because it's what the players want but because it's what they think the players should want.

CCP has paid the price for their hubris in a bad way on more than one occasion, but overall it's worked out pretty well.

Mr Epeen Cool
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#6 - 2013-06-29 18:49:26 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Robert Saint wrote:
Since EVE has such a strong core base of players that seem to stick around, why not have a clearer voice than just the CSM when it comes to features.... Let the majority rule?


Wouldn't work simply because the politics in this game prevents anything actually democratic.

The CSM vote shows how screwed up the voting system is. To tie it to a feature vote, might as well turn the game into a P2W game (as that is what a vote will amount to -- special interests. Worse, you paying for it).

There's many reasons why the things allowed in EvE isn't in other games. This is one of them. Bloc voting and special interest voting in a game would tear it apart (as they're not interested in the stability but their immediate gains, and at the stake of the game itself. This happens with players are so focused on their wants, they don't see or want to see the ramifications of them...tunnel vision).



I understand the conspiracy theory, but it would seem that a player majority for features would be an obvious win for player retention.

Do you think some players have so many alt accounts that it wouldn't work, as the vote wouldn't represent a single player.

Perhaps the types of features that players could vote on wouldn't be life/game threatening ones?

Maybe SHIP Skins?
Harder Missions with Less NPC's, maybe ones that use PVP tactics?

I don't know exactly just interesting stuff that Dev may not think are important and are only hearing the REALLY LOUD folks in the forums.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-29 19:23:12 UTC
You can post a proposal here to bring it to the attention of the CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=267

The CSM consists of players that are elected annually by the player base to present the issues and topics posted there to CCP.

I really don't understand why so many of you keep bitching that this isn't democratic- it's the most democratic model any MMO has ever had. Only because you don't like your elected representatives doesn't mean that the vote was unfair or rigged.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-06-29 19:32:08 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
You can post a proposal here to bring it to the attention of the CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=267

The CSM consists of players that are elected annually by the player base to present the issues and topics posted there to CCP.

I really don't understand why so many of you keep bitching that this isn't democratic- it's the most democratic model any MMO has ever had. Only because you don't like your elected representatives doesn't mean that the vote was unfair or rigged.

Propably because the CSM doesn't care about their horrible ideas and actually represent the people who voted for them instead. Everyone who doesn't belong in the majority voting groups can then gripe about how it's not democratic, because their interests aren't being represented, which is exactly what happens in RL democracies too.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#9 - 2013-06-29 19:44:12 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
You can post a proposal here to bring it to the attention of the CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=267

The CSM consists of players that are elected annually by the player base to present the issues and topics posted there to CCP.

I really don't understand why so many of you keep bitching that this isn't democratic- it's the most democratic model any MMO has ever had. Only because you don't like your elected representatives doesn't mean that the vote was unfair or rigged.


I don't think it's meant to be a complaint about CSM at all, since on a global "hey don't completely mess us over" kind of way... they are a welcomed additional and certainly unheard of, and perhaps a reason why EVE is unique...

I am talking about a single vote for features. . . that each person can have a say in.

If 100,000 people want Ship Skins.... well then that won the vote..... could mean 100,000 sales of ships skins when the feature is implemented... could even cost AUR so they can make some bank. I would buy a skin for my Raven = White, with the MACH 5 logo on it...... now we're talking.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-06-29 20:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Robert Saint wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
You can post a proposal here to bring it to the attention of the CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=267

The CSM consists of players that are elected annually by the player base to present the issues and topics posted there to CCP.

I really don't understand why so many of you keep bitching that this isn't democratic- it's the most democratic model any MMO has ever had. Only because you don't like your elected representatives doesn't mean that the vote was unfair or rigged.


I don't think it's meant to be a complaint about CSM at all, since on a global "hey don't completely mess us over" kind of way... they are a welcomed additional and certainly unheard of, and perhaps a reason why EVE is unique...

I am talking about a single vote for features. . . that each person can have a say in.

If 100,000 people want Ship Skins.... well then that won the vote..... could mean 100,000 sales of ships skins when the feature is implemented... could even cost AUR so they can make some bank. I would buy a skin for my Raven = White, with the MACH 5 logo on it...... now we're talking.



Sorry, I wasn't referring to you as complaining about the CSM, this was (once again) brought up by other posters.
But yeah, the idea behind the "CSM Assembly Hall" is exactly that: players post ideas, and the other players give them votes via the "Like" button. Unfortunately there is no downvote option, though- at least in this forum section it would be mandatory.

All that democracy thing aside, please note that CCP has still the final saying about everything. The CSM act as counselors and as intermediaries, but since CCP has to shoulder 100% of the business risk involved with any of those ideas, it is ultimately up to them to make the decision. After all, many devs could lose their jobs if they take EVE into a wrong direction.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-29 20:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Ah, one more thing.
I actually feel bad for having made an informative and constructive post in GD, so have this gif of humping and puking dogs.

You are welcome. Big smile

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#12 - 2013-06-29 21:29:18 UTC
Players voting features? **** no. So many reason why that's a bad idea. Look at the retards people elect for governments for example.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#13 - 2013-06-29 21:58:46 UTC
Players deserve input into what features eve has added, sure... but I think a straight up vote would probably be horrible for Eve. Most of the people that would vote wouldn't have the first idea about what impact their decision would have on the Eve universe. As much as I hate to say it, the final decision has to be with the debs, to stop us from destroying what we love.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-06-29 22:40:57 UTC
Player voting is irrelevant, you will all be assimilated anyway.
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-06-29 23:30:27 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:


I am talking about FEATURES not Subscriptions..... ?


I believe his point is if CCP implements features people dislike, subscriptions will fall - or vice versa.

Quote:
What's with the like it or get out comments?


That's how all games work, everywhere. If you want to be a game designer, go apply for some jobs.

Design by committee (vote) is not just a bad idea, it's downright awful and will ensure that the game fails immediately and gloriously.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#16 - 2013-06-29 23:44:53 UTC
"Good idea or bad?"

Bad. Picard Facepalm bad.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Molenius Morrowinger
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-06-30 04:51:25 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
You can post a proposal here to bring it to the attention of the CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=267

The CSM consists of players that are elected annually by the player base to present the issues and topics posted there to CCP.

I really don't understand why so many of you keep bitching that this isn't democratic- it's the most democratic model any MMO has ever had. Only because you don't like your elected representatives doesn't mean that the vote was unfair or rigged.


I don't think it's meant to be a complaint about CSM at all, since on a global "hey don't completely mess us over" kind of way... they are a welcomed additional and certainly unheard of, and perhaps a reason why EVE is unique...

I am talking about a single vote for features. . . that each person can have a say in.

If 100,000 people want Ship Skins.... well then that won the vote..... could mean 100,000 sales of ships skins when the feature is implemented... could even cost AUR so they can make some bank. I would buy a skin for my Raven = White, with the MACH 5 logo on it...... now we're talking.



What happen if players vote for pandas?
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-30 04:51:36 UTC
This has actually been done (somewhat) in the past. Google "CSM Crowdsourcing" and you'll find the results of these votes (I am pleasantly surprised, looking over it, how many of that stuff actually is fixed already).
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#19 - 2013-06-30 05:25:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
"Good idea or bad?"

Bad. Picard Facepalm bad.


Did Captain Picard Facepalm anyone in the show?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#20 - 2013-06-30 05:27:52 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
"Good idea or bad?"

Bad. Picard Facepalm bad.


Did Captain Picard Facepalm anyone in the show?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=picard+facepalm
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