Player Features and Ideas Discussion

NO no nononononononono NO!

The skill is now useful for the specialized haulers that exist in the Gallente line. Going to other races gives different benefits. That is why the specialized haulers are balanced.

There is alot of calls to change the Interon V as well. Either a direct nerf to its existing line or my idea of turning it into a poor mans hauler.



Unlike the nerfs to the Drake which directly harmed newer players. This change is only going to change things for those who trained that skill to V. People that can spare the time to train Amarr to V. Or just make use of the benefits of the Gal V skill for the Iteron 1-IV

No, I got the idea perfectly... I had recommended it myself earlier (for Interbus) although not with the added tweak you mentioned via expanding the cargo bay size based on a different skill... Likely no one thought of it in time, and we know there won't be a third pass.

If we had swapped to bays for all the ships this and future indy tweaks would have been easier, and they could better balance the ships for their intended purpose without needing to always balance around CE's/Rigs... but they didn't seem willing to go that route this late in the game either.

It's a fair middling point, when you compare it to the first pass. Not perfect, but a lot of people are likely screaming for the HAC rebalance, so it's a livable solution that actually makes the various races useful. Ultimately I think Eve has a lot of sucking chest wounds, and while this is one, it's better than it is now. Considering the apparent time limits... I think this is the best we're getting (and it's good, don't get me wrong) hopefully they won't let the hauler's linger for another 10 years.



I think CCP would be more likely to add a new skill, rather than re-using or overloading an existing skill a fair chunk of player's probably have trained to III or IV (I really question the value of that skill to V, with T2 tractor beams). They're much more likely to add an entirely new skill sink, ala all the other new skills they've added. It also does a better job of balancing things for the newer players.

You're high, right? Or perhaps this is some kind of hilarious joke? A jab at all the people who cry for skill refunds all the time? Were you possessed by demons? I'd hate to think you made this post seriously while in a state where you can actually claim to have been in your right mind.

You did not train Gallente Industrial V in order to fly the highest-cargo ship. You trained Gallente Industrial V in order to fly the Iteron V, which at the time happened to be the highest-cargo. The ship is not being removed, its function is not being radically altered, you'll still be able to use it just the way you can use it now. It's not even losing that much space.

Do you remember when they changed active hardeners to stop giving passive resist bonuses when they're not actually running? All the people said "Are you going to refund our passive hardener skills?" and CCP said "No, you can still use passive hardeners just fine."

This is just like that, except even simpler.

Fair enough, I just wanted to clarify since you seemed to think I was suggesting creating a new skill or granting people free skill points, which was not the idea at all. And yeah, lots of folks suggested reassigning all four special bay haulers to ORE or InterBus, which would be great except it would require art to update their visual design to suit, which Rise says he doesn't want to spend time on. I figured this was a nice compromise where art doesn't have to do anything because the ships remain Gallente/Minmatar in principle, but we could still shift the huge added benefit away from the Gal Indy skill to the more neutral ORE Indy skill, which is already the one that gives bonuses to special bay size on other ships anyway.



I agree here too, the cargo expander module as currently designed throws off this whole balance pass and I argued repeatedly that it should be a) removed, b) banned from the indy ship class, c) given a stacking penalty or d) made irrelevant by changing all haulers to special bays unaffected by it, but as you say, Rise didn't seem to want to do that. So, we're stuck with a rebalance that's skewed by the cargo expander issue, which isn't great but better than nothing.



Hah -- we all know that's exactly what will happen, though. Haulers weren't touched for the last ten years, and since Rise confesses they're not a very interesting ship class in general, I don't think we can expect any more changes for the next ten years. This rebalance is not bad, but let's not kid ourselves about the near future.

#1 Do people seriously waste money ganking mission haulers? If so fly the more tanky kinds.
#2 They are not meant for fighting. They are made for those who want to move stuff.
#3 That is why you see haulers with specialized holds that can hold more of a specific type of item than a general hauler.
#4 They will come back and learn about Red Frog.

No skill refund for you. Deal with it.

tldr;

So I train Gall Indy to 5 to fly an Ity 5...you take that away...ok I can kind of understand that. At least my skill trained has use since trained to 5 its better than the other indies. NOW you want to take that away and make the skill virtually pointless??

Id like a refund of that skill, I can then apply it to Amarr Industrial instead. Im quite sure CCP wont do this as they are trying to shake skills up to force you to train a new set so that equals more subscription time and more money.

The part that really erks me is that historically the tradeoff for cargo has ALWAYS been speed. If you have a faster speed then you have less cargo space and the otherway round. However, you now had the bestower with a higher base velocity and a higher cargo space, and the same % of velocity bonus for skill. This means that the bestower will ALWAYS be faster and have more cargo space than the Ity-5...that is ******* stupid tbh.

Bit off-topic but:
The skillpoints invested wouldn't have to go to waste if we (or CCP) could add in more uses for that particular skill; that being more unique ships that uses that ability, tied in with another one. This game is about internet spaceships, so there should be no complaint about seeing such in masses. As long as they are flexible and useful like how the Orca is while still leaving the more specialized stuff for the T2 family, all should be good.

In other words, there would be no need for skill refunds as long as we have a "decent replacement" for the time invested in skilling to suffice skilling whatsoever to V before.

It was good that Learning Skills was removed and compensated for. It was a big thing in the way and it really needed to go.

Another thing is that there are no real arguments to suffice as to just "why" Iteron V needs to be the top dog of cargo hauling either. It happens to be so that CCP has the last word on that one. Just thought I should toss that in.

Not pointless at all. One day you likely will find yourself in need to use these specialized ships and your Gal V will mean you can make the most use of em.



What evidence do you have that CCP is doing this for more money? Otherwise you are just posting Libel.



The Inty 5 needs a completely new role. It needs to get a 25K Gal V bay that does not get affected by cargo expanders or rigs to become a poor mans hauler.

If that change is made it will stop being compared to the Bestower.