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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

First post First post First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#921 - 2013-06-28 15:30:42 UTC
Li Tiger wrote:
Maybelater Headache wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

I'll probably catch on to that one when you learn the difference between making constructive posts to prove your point, and making personal attacks to hide the fact that you don't have one.


Why so angry? Big smile
Ranger 1 I just think that MH might be just as tired as I am of all of your attempts in this thread to get ccp in speech, concerning a hiring!Blink

I do not understand why you constantly overwhelms this thread with your support for devs with all sorts of excuses and chitchat about why ccp can not do this or that! You know as well as I that it may well be made. The question is whether ccp want to spend time on the problem - alluding here on an off option. It can be time consuming but no more than that - period!

Well, since it turns out that what I told you was likely going to happen (and why) was just confirmed to be correct I can certainly understand your being tired of seeing my posts.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#922 - 2013-06-28 15:32:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.

I know right? That tempest very nearly cracked the tea cup it was in.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Pharexia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#923 - 2013-06-28 15:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pharexia
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.


Changing the font didnt make people PHYSICALLY SICK.....

It is one thing to say I don't agree with the Devs because I don't like the way xyz looks. That is a personal preference that outside of the screen unless it is hard to read due to my eye sight doesn't impact my gameplay or my PHYSICAL well being.

This animation DOES MAKE ME SICK as well as others......
Please before this thread gets to 75-100 pages understand this.
THIS IS MAKING PEOPLE PHYSICALLY SICK AND UNABLE TO PLAY.

This is not a I don't like the way this looks BUT I can still play it is LITERALLY I CAN NO LONGER PLAY THIS GAME DUE TO HOW I WAS BORN!!!!
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#924 - 2013-06-28 15:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
rey Aumer wrote:
So you're excusing Blizzards failures because they didn't affect you... Blizz and CCP are no different. They toss in a new feature and say learn to love it, we'll fix the problems when we get to it. Like you said, they still haven't fixed 2 person mounts and it's been out for how long?


I'm explaining the points he's addressing...because...

1. It's long been fixed.
2. It affected gryphon riders (from late Cata onwards all mounts on any level 80+ player is available to all alts, so no one but truly new players (which is rare) or AFK travelers uses gryphons...it's pointless otherwise). Those on their own mounts -- most players -- weren't affected (if it was, I would've noticed it on all those Icecrown/Storm Peak stuttering flights...and sure would've informed Blizzard...think I'm critical of CCP? You haven't seen my posts to Ghostcrawler). Lol
3. The camera angle isn't affected (even on a gryphon you can free look -- which is the problem with the gate animation, we can't do that).

The 2 person mount issue is a technical issue. Something they have to solve. Not as bad as the 16 slot bag issue, but one that will take time (probably related to all the virtual zone merging, as the Wintergrasp freefall is still there every patch).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Pharexia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#925 - 2013-06-28 16:03:24 UTC
One last quick note..... This is not a small percent of the population.....

About 33% of people are susceptible to motion sickness even in mild circumstances such as being on a boat in calm water, although nearly 66% of people are susceptible in more severe conditions. Individuals and animals without a functional vestibular system are immune to motion sickness.

Borden Institute
Benson, AJ (2002). "35". Motion Sickness. In: Medical Aspects of Harsh Environments




In a study conducted by U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences in a report published May 1995 titled "Technical Report 1027 - Simulator Sickness in Virtual Environments", out of 742 pilot exposures from 11 military flight simulators, "approximately half of the pilots (334) reported post-effects of some kind: 250 (34%) reported that symptoms dissipated in less than 1 hour, 44 (6%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 4 hours, and 28 (4%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than 6 hours.


Simulation sickness, or simulator sickness, is a condition where a person exhibits symptoms similar to motion sickness caused by playing computer/simulation/video games.[

The most common theory for the cause of simulation sickness is that the illusion of motion created by the virtual world, combined with the absence of motion detected by the inner ear, causes the area postrema in the human brain to infer that one is hallucinating and further conclude that the hallucination is due to poison ingestion. The brain responds by inducing nausea and mass vomiting, to clear the supposed toxin. According to this theory, simulation sickness is just another form of motion sickness.

The symptoms are often described as quite similar to that of motion sickness, and can range from headache, drowsiness, nausea, dizziness, vomiting and sweating. Research done at the University of Minnesota had students play Halo for less than an hour, and found that up to 50 percent felt sick afterwards.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#926 - 2013-06-28 16:04:00 UTC
Pharexia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.


Changing the font didnt make people PHYSICALLY SICK.....

It is one thing to say I don't agree with the Devs because I don't like the way xyz looks. That is a personal preference that outside of the screen unless it is hard to read due to my eye sight doesn't impact my gameplay or my PHYSICAL well being.

This animation DOES MAKE ME SICK as well as others......
Please before this thread gets to 75-100 pages understand this.
THIS IS MAKING PEOPLE PHYSICALLY SICK AND UNABLE TO PLAY.

This is not a I don't like the way this looks BUT I can still play it is LITERALLY I CAN NO LONGER PLAY THIS GAME DUE TO HOW I WAS BORN!!!!

Actually, a large number of the complaints stated "I can no longer play this game because I can't read the font".

This was often followed by the ever popular "This font is forcing me to stop playing the game because it gives me severe migraines trying to read anything. They are severe enough to induce nausea. I can't play a game that makes me physically ill".

And of course there was the usual "Everybody will quit", "You are not listening to us", "We demand you drop this entirely and revert the game back", "How hard could it be?" comments.

But in the end it was shown that CCP did listen, took the time to correct the actual issues, and the people that were going to quit unless the old (horrible) font was brought back are still here.

Obviously corrections need to be made , and as we have already found out WILL be made (we all sympathize with the folks that actually are adversely affected)... but the way people ramp up the drama is more than a little amusing to many of us.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#927 - 2013-06-28 16:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Okay, I was with you up until this point.

Quote:
Research done at the University of Minnesota had students play Halo for less than an hour, and found that up to 50 percent felt sick afterwards.


Does this in any way actually strike you as factual?

Really?

It makes you wonder what the cafeteria was serving for lunch that day, because the rest of the world doesn't seem to have that issue.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#928 - 2013-06-28 17:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Siresa Talesi
Ace Uoweme wrote:

That still didn't change the camera angle. And what's causing the issue with this gate animation IS the forced camera angle.


Confirming, repeating, and reinforcing the fact that this is NOT the only issue, and that the animation itself is also causing problems!

I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.
Sister Sophia
Doomheim
#929 - 2013-06-28 17:33:26 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
words


Can we keep it constructive and civil? I mean I know you have a fancy white tag and all. But still... humour us by at least pretending to be offering useful input. Thanks. Smile

CCP Sysiphys has already said that CCP will be looking at the issue. Very likely the new animation will be less jarring and a lot more gentle on the eyes/brain. I don't see what there's still to argue about until we see it.

For my part, I'm just going to stay away from the game, chill and wait for the new version. I hope the devs take into account all the helpful stuff that's been said here.
Othran
Route One
#930 - 2013-06-28 17:50:45 UTC
Siresa Talesi wrote:

Confirming, repeating, and reinforcing the fact that this is NOT the only issue, and that the animation itself is also causing problems!

I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.


I tend to agree with this. After a large number (30+) of consecutive jumps I think its the end of the cut-scene which causes me problems. I'm not likely to throw up or anything but there is definitely something about that section and the sudden halt on jump-in which makes me a bit queasy after lots of jumps.

I originally thought it was the start of the cut-scene but now I'm not sure. Whatever, its not conducive to roaming, that's for sure.
Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#931 - 2013-06-28 18:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Siresa Talesi
Sister Sophia wrote:

CCP Sysiphys has already said that CCP will be looking at the issue. Very likely the new animation will be less jarring and a lot more gentle on the eyes/brain. I don't see what there's still to argue about until we see it.

For my part, I'm just going to stay away from the game, chill and wait for the new version. I hope the devs take into account all the helpful stuff that's been said here.


What's to argue about is that they have decided to take their sweet time in order to "optimize" the animation just so they can keep their new shiny.

If this were some minor bug, I would agree, we could all just wait and see how they fix it. But this is a severe issue affecting customers' physical well-being; this type of problem demands immediate attention, not a delayed effort to incrementally work towards improvements. It should not take weeks to put a temporary fix in place while they continue their optimization. But the truth is, they won't do that, because then they would be admitting they did something wrong and had to roll it back. They would be acknowledging that they ignored all the test server feedback they had before this went live. Apparently, CCP's pride is more important to them than their customers' health.

I am actively paying for a game which I can now only play with difficulty, and some things I have to avoid altogether. I am not paying to just sit and wait for it to get better. So I will continue to push for action, until either something changes or my sub runs out.

Othran wrote:
Siresa Talesi wrote:

Confirming, repeating, and reinforcing the fact that this is NOT the only issue, and that the animation itself is also causing problems!

I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.


I tend to agree with this. After a large number (30+) of consecutive jumps I think its the end of the cut-scene which causes me problems. I'm not likely to throw up or anything but there is definitely something about that section and the sudden halt on jump-in which makes me a bit queasy after lots of jumps.

I originally thought it was the start of the cut-scene but now I'm not sure. Whatever, its not conducive to roaming, that's for sure.


I'm sure everyone is affected a little differently, but I think it's both. You're being suddenly thrown into a very different visual environment, and then about 6 seconds later, just as suddenly dropped back into a view very similar to the one you just left. It's not nearly enough time for the brain to catch up with what they eyes are seeing, and the extreme differences in the two views make the experience very disorienting.

According to one CSM member here, there are even devs at CCP who suffer from this problem (and at least one who was ridiculed for it; so what do they think of their players with this problem?). If this is true, then combined with all the test server feedback, it really makes you wonder how this ever got past QA and was approved to go live. How did they not anticipate there being an issue when, in addition to customer response, they had problems internally? At the very least, it never should have gone forward without a backup plan in place.

But now that it has, it needs to be addressed. Not in the next expansion, not after the summer, not next month, not even next week. They've had more than three weeks already; three weeks of causing pain and making paying customers physically ill. They've clearly known about the problem for even longer than that, but chose to ignore it. Not having even a temporary fix in place by now is inexcusable.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#932 - 2013-06-28 19:18:19 UTC
Omo Hubble wrote:
My prediction on page 38 was spot on. We should not expect the option to disable. From the developers' perspective it does not make sense to allow us to disable new features. It would be a step backwards, wasting development resources. Reasonable and fair enough.


If both old and new systems were available, then adding new system would always be an improvement. No one could argue with that. If the old system is removed as new one is introduced, possibility for a step backwards exists if the new one is worse.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Dullmeyr Prodomo
Gnartz
#933 - 2013-06-28 19:52:50 UTC
So this thread is still alive, the master of drama is still up to mischief and even a Dev was kind enough to drop in eventually. Nice!
While there's life, there's hope. Cool
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#934 - 2013-06-28 19:56:17 UTC
Siresa Talesi wrote:
I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.


Well, with the gate jump sequence the forced camera IS the problem. Without control of the camera angle it's like losing your horizon as a pilot. When that happens, you at least get disorientated (losing the horizon is how John-John [JFK's son] crashed his private jet and died), and if you're prone to vertigo you can lose your lunch.

We're Terra Firma creatures so even in space our brain is searching for a horizon. Makes no difference if it's a video game either. We're hardwired for it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Dullmeyr Prodomo
Gnartz
#935 - 2013-06-28 20:50:07 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Siresa Talesi wrote:
I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.


Well, with the gate jump sequence the forced camera IS the problem. Without control of the camera angle it's like losing your horizon as a pilot. When that happens, you at least get disorientated (losing the horizon is how John-John [JFK's son] crashed his private jet and died), and if you're prone to vertigo you can lose your lunch.

We're Terra Firma creatures so even in space our brain is searching for a horizon. Makes no difference if it's a video game either. We're hardwired for it.


I think we can easily leave it to Siresa Talesi and his personal experience which parts of the animation are causing him issues. Beside obviously existing health issues experienced by several people, this animation simply sucks- it´s choppy and annoying. I would love to see it removed from the game, but that´s just me. Well, probably not just me. Big smile
Jigster
Deadly Silent
#936 - 2013-06-28 22:39:39 UTC
Giovannui wrote:
The new jump animation introduces too much lag when multi-boxing. is there a way to turn it off? If not, please give us the ability to use the old system again.


Don't you know? New is always better, someone spent a long time rummaging around in the box of good ideas for this. I think it looks pretty =)
Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#937 - 2013-06-28 22:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Siresa Talesi
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Siresa Talesi wrote:
I'm sorry I have to harp on this, but every time someone repeats the idea that "it's just the camera swing," I feel like my issues (flashing lights = migraine trigger) are being ignored and swept under the rug, and as a minority in this case, I have to keep pulling them back out.

Plus, I am fairly certian that at least for some of us suffering from nausea, it is the brief duration and sudden enrance/exit of the gate animation that also affects this, and that the camera swing is not the only culprit.


Well, with the gate jump sequence the forced camera IS the problem. Without control of the camera angle it's like losing your horizon as a pilot. When that happens, you at least get disorientated (losing the horizon is how John-John [JFK's son] crashed his private jet and died), and if you're prone to vertigo you can lose your lunch.

We're Terra Firma creatures so even in space our brain is searching for a horizon. Makes no difference if it's a video game either. We're hardwired for it.



It is a problem, but it is not the only problem, and treating it like it is just ignores the rest of the issue.

Personally, I've experienced mild nausea as a result of this sequence, and yes, the camera swing is definitely a factor in that. However, as I indicated above, there are other factors associated with the animation itself which also contirbute to the feeling of disorientation (visual cues of motion through the tunnel conflicting with the inner ear's sense of motion, no fixed object to focus on, brief duration of drastically different view with motion not allowing the brain time to adjust to what is being seen).

However, for me, the nausea is the lesser of the two issues. The jump sequence being a migraine trigger is by far the more severe and painful consequence. When I get one of these headaches, it literally feels like there is a 1" thick spike driven through the base of my skull on one side, up until the tip rests just behind the eye on the other side. And once it has started, it will persist for several hours (or more), and there is really not much I can do but wait it out. And this is all caused by the animation; the camera swing has nothing to do with it. Migraines can have many causes and triggers, but one common trigger is similar to epilepsy, in that lights flashing at certain frequencies can set them off. For example, I've noticed that often my headaches can by triggered or worsened by certain flourescent lights; the tubes flicker at a frequency largely imperceptible by the eye, but the brain still picks it up, and it can be a huge problem for migraine sufferers. The lights in the jump tunnel animation, as well as the shifting colors and tones of the tunnel clouds themselves, create a similar effect, pulsing at a frequency that apparently I am sensitive to.

So please, try to remember that while the camera swing is an issue, it is not the only part of the jump sequence that is causing problems for players. Just because you may not have a problem with anything but the camera swing, it doesn't mean that the animation is not an issue for others.
cheese monkey
HC - Blackhole Sun
Aporkalypse Now
#938 - 2013-06-28 23:03:15 UTC
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png

Jimmy Morane
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#939 - 2013-06-28 23:41:54 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.



I know, right.


I and others have said some twenty pages back that if they showed the animation from the third person perspective and gave you control of the viewing angle, then got rid of that swinging bulllshit - the problem would be solved.

Think of taking the warp drive animation of your ship and plastering it into the jump animation. I don't know if that is possible, but it would really help.

Also, the damn animation is sloppy looking, and half the time it doesn't work - I'm presented with this massive blue/grey cloud blob as if it is trying to present itself from a top/down view. It's quite amusing.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#940 - 2013-06-29 00:56:32 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.


I am sorry you feel that way but amazingly a LOT of us did mention during the camapigns the we were neither devs nor programmers. We represent you, we did that, the proof is CCP showed up in this thread to answer you.

Can the CSM 'make' things happen? No

sorry if you were under the mistaken impression that we could.

We advise, we represent . . .

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)