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Best way to deal with EM weapons in Caldari Ships?

Author
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-28 12:40:41 UTC
I have a problem with EM weapons.

I tired my hand at low level pvp by going to level 1 faction warfare (without signing up of course) to see if I can find anything to shoot at.

So I find myself a target for my Kestrel and I move into attack, waiting for him to open fire so I don't lose security ranking. And I'm dead in 10 seconds. Shields go then my armour and my ship explodes and I run away in my pod. The cost isn't a problem so I get another kestrel and go at it again, different system and different target. Again dead in seconds. Both times frigates.

I check up and find that both enemy ships were armed with tech 2 guns and EM ammo.

So is there anyway I can beat these ships solo in a kestrel or are they just too good to beat?
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#2 - 2013-06-28 12:43:13 UTC
Do you run blood raider missions tanked against explosive?

Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-28 12:46:50 UTC
L'ouris wrote:
Do you run blood raider missions tanked against explosive?



I don't follow you

I was with 4 light missiles launchers with scourge missiles.
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#4 - 2013-06-28 13:09:09 UTC
I would start by asking "why do people load em when fighting my kestrel".

When you have that answer, there are things you can do to make em damage the worst choice to shoot you with.

Your either:
A - way too close
B - forgetting basic tanking principles
C- both.


Basic mission running should have taught B.
Atkins Friendly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-28 13:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Atkins Friendly
More than likely, the ship that is going against you is an amarr ship with beam/pulse lasers which do EM/thermal damage. Both of which are the worst for Caldari shields.

The ways to compensate for it is to put EM and Thermal Shield hardeners on your ship. This will boost the resistances of them.

Another way is to speed tank. See if you can get a fast orbit around whatever target yours shooting at. Tracking speeds on the energy turrets arent the best and will have a hard time keeping up with you if your trajectory is high. By all means, never fly straight towards or directly away from a ship with turrets. They will get direct hits everytime.

PS guys: OP is talking about PVP - not mission running
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-28 13:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
oh yess here is my kill data

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18450825

And you can see how badly I'm doing on the PvP front

I had a small shield extender and a shield boast in case I needed it
Jaan Thiesant
Star Cluster Wanderer
#7 - 2013-06-28 13:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaan Thiesant
Rig your ships. If you need to fill an EM hole, fit the correct rig. Small anti-em screen reinforcer I in your case.

Edit. And some core defense field extenders too.
Take a look at the Jury Rigging skill and see all the options for your best choice.
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-06-28 13:29:27 UTC
According to my experience people will usually put MWDs on Kestrels so they can kite the enemy outside their guns' (and scram/web) range, using both their speed and their distance to the enemy ship as "tank".

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-28 13:48:22 UTC
darmwand wrote:
According to my experience people will usually put MWDs on Kestrels so they can kite the enemy outside their guns' (and scram/web) range, using both their speed and their distance to the enemy ship as "tank".


yeah that what I try to do most of the time but the enemy always kill me before I've moved away from them.

In fact this is pretty much my experience in PvP in this game. Enemy comes up, enemy fires, my ship explodes
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-06-28 14:14:25 UTC
Well for that you were killed by drones, also you have 0% em and 10% thermic resists which is what the hobgoblins do. You should have rigs, a damage control, and probably an invuln as the booster will do crap on a frig in pvp situations without resists. You also may want to consider engaging first unless on a station or gate as that is the only time gat guns or station guns engage you because t1 frigs are paper thin.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post

darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-28 14:15:45 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:

In fact this is pretty much my experience in PvP in this game. Enemy comes up, enemy fires, my ship explodes


Well yes, that also describes my first attempts at PvP and I suppose most people have started their PvP careers losing lots of frigates. You'll learn from your mistakes, get better and sooner or later you'll be on the other side of someone else's "Enemy comes up, enemy fires, my ship explodes" story Smile

Ah, and remember to put rigs on your ship. For frigates they are cheap and they can make quite the difference. For a kiting ship I would recommend something that improves your speed / agility or, if you're happy with those, a DPS rig.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-28 14:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: darmwand
Forest Archer wrote:
Well for that you were killed by drones, also you have 0% em and 10% thermic resists which is what the hobgoblins do. You should have rigs, a damage control, and probably an invuln as the booster will do crap on a frig in pvp situations without resists. You also may want to consider engaging first unless on a station or gate as that is the only time gat guns or station guns engage you because t1 frigs are paper thin.


I think it's rather difficult to get a tank that can compete with a Tristan on a Kestrel, their big strengths are speed, agility and damage projection. By fitting and MWD (and not landing too close to the enemy - I've lost many a kiting ship to that) you should be able to out-run Hobgoblins, stay out of their Blaster range / outrun their Railguns and reduce them to scrap metal with your missiles.

I agree that the shield booster might not be the best idea. If you are going to kite with an MWD your capacitor is probably going to be an issue. Shield boosters only make it worse.

You also seem to have forgotten to fit a warp disruptor Smile

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#13 - 2013-06-28 14:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
First off, train jury rigging. It's a fast train and many rigs are dirt cheap - right now you're flying with some slots unfilled. Rigs are often the best way to fill "resist holes" (weak resists on your primary tank). For example, on most t1 shield ships I'd try to slap an anti-em screen reinforcer..

Other notes on your fit -


You're using light missile launchers, but you appear to be using a close-range fit with an afterburner. LMLs do less damage and have higher fitting requirements than rocket launchers, the only benefit being range. Unless you're really going to exploit that, go with rockets.

Cap rechargers are not useful in PVP. The small amount of % cap recharge you get is virtually never worth a midslot. If you really have capacitor problems you probably want a cap booster. The only thing on your fit that really eats cap is the small shield booster, which reminds me...

You're using small shield modules. Although it sounds counterintuitive (and it is), small shield boosting modules and small shield extenders don't really give you much of a benefit on a frigate hull. Typically ships fit one size larger (so, frigates/destroyers use medium shield extenders and shield boosters). It'll eat a lot of powergrid, but you can usually make the fit work.

Also, regular shield boosters are pretty awful for PVP in most circumstances. That's why ancilliary shield boosters exist. They give you a substantially higher tank with no capacitor cost, but they can only be run for a certain amount of time before the ammo it consumes runs out and it needs to reload. Ancillary shield boosters are expensive, though, and if cost is a problem (you seem to be using mostly flat t1 stuff), look at using a medium shield extender.

The above two points is why you seem to be exploding instantly. It seems like you have no tank because you really don't have much of a tank, not because they were shooting EM/thermal (though that probably helped)

Another point - try to always fit a damage control. It's a low slot module that gives you shield bonuses (one of very few modules that does this from a lot slot), as well as bringing your armor resists up. Further, it brings your structure resists up to 50-60%, which means that you gain a ton of effective hitpoints from this single module (just remember to turn it on). I consider it mandatory for almost every ship I fly

And finally, as the above guy said, you don't have a warp disruptor or warp scrambler, which means your target can just warp off at will.



In general, I'd try to avoid learning PVP on your own. Find a corp full of competent people who don't mind teaching you things (they exist), and join it.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-28 14:29:10 UTC
darmwand wrote:


You also seem to have forgotten to fit a warp disruptor Smile


considering that I've never had the chance to really get into an enemy in combat, its something I have no need on.

That and I find them unfair
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-28 14:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
whoops did that wrong
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#16 - 2013-06-28 14:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
That and I find them unfair


EVE is hardly a fair game (though I don't see why warp disruptors are supposed to be unfair). If you refuse to put an essential module on your ship that is virtually required to kill anything then no amount of advice we give you is going to be useful.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-28 14:38:35 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
First off, train jury rigging. It's a fast train and many rigs are dirt cheap - right now you're flying with some slots unfilled. Rigs are often the best way to fill "resist holes" (weak resists on your primary tank). For example, on most t1 shield ships I'd try to slap an anti-em screen reinforcer..

Other notes on your fit -


You're using light missile launchers, but you appear to be using a close-range fit with an afterburner. LMLs do less damage and have higher fitting requirements than rocket launchers, the only benefit being range. Unless you're really going to exploit that, go with rockets.

Cap rechargers are not useful in PVP. The small amount of % cap recharge you get is virtually never worth a midslot. If you really have capacitor problems you probably want a cap booster. The only thing on your fit that really eats cap is the small shield booster, which reminds me...

You're using small shield modules. Although it sounds counterintuitive (and it is), small shield boosting modules and small shield extenders don't really give you much of a benefit on a frigate hull. Typically ships fit one size larger (so, frigates/destroyers use medium shield extenders and shield boosters). It'll eat a lot of powergrid, but you can usually make the fit work.

Also, regular shield boosters are pretty awful for PVP in most circumstances. That's why ancilliary shield boosters exist. They give you a substantially higher tank with no capacitor cost, but they can only be run for a certain amount of time before the ammo it consumes runs out and it needs to reload. Ancillary shield boosters are expensive, though, and if cost is a problem (you seem to be using mostly flat t1 stuff), look at using a medium shield extender.

The above two points is why you seem to be exploding instantly. It seems like you have no tank because you really don't have much of a tank, not because they were shooting EM/thermal (though that probably helped)

Another point - try to always fit a damage control. It's a low slot module that gives you shield bonuses (one of very few modules that does this from a lot slot), as well as bringing your armor resists up. Further, it brings your structure resists up to 50-60%, which means that you gain a ton of effective hitpoints from this single module (just remember to turn it on). I consider it mandatory for almost every ship I fly

And finally, as the above guy said, you don't have a warp disruptor or warp scrambler, which means your target can just warp off at will.



In general, I'd try to avoid learning PVP on your own. Find a corp full of competent people who don't mind teaching you things (they exist), and join it.


ok, I've specialised quite a bit around missiles so what kind of fitting would you suggest for a kestrel? Or is there another caldari ship that is better suited for solo PvP
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-06-28 14:43:49 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
ok, I've specialised quite a bit around missiles so what kind of fitting would you suggest for a kestrel? Or is there another caldari ship that is better suited for solo PvP


This is a Kestrel I've recently killed (he got too close) but would have otherwise been a pretty good fit as far as I can tell:

Quote:

[Kestrel, kiting]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster

Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II
Light Missile Launcher II

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#19 - 2013-06-28 14:45:59 UTC


Quote:
ok, I've specialised quite a bit around missiles so what kind of fitting would you suggest for a kestrel? Or is there another caldari ship that is better suited for solo PvP


The Kestrel itself is fine. It's just your fit for the kestrel that was flawed.
Maika Mabata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-06-28 14:50:43 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
darmwand wrote:


You also seem to have forgotten to fit a warp disruptor Smile


considering that I've never had the chance to really get into an enemy in combat, its something I have no need on.

That and I find them unfair


Wait.

You want to PvP
And be fair.

Not in EVE.

And a warp disrupto / scrambler has nothing to do with unfair, it has to do with properly being fitted for PvP.Without them, you will never get kills as enemies will always just warp away when they are losing the battle.
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