Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I love the changes and specialized haulers but I think they should have a max of 2 low slots.

Well, if they drop to 2 lows, if the resists remain as they are, the Hoarder's use as a fleet tender wouldn't be compromised at all. It'll have about the same EH shield tanked as a scimitar (a little less, but not much). I suspect the other specialist hulls will look much the same.

Armor-tanked, it's a different story, but then, they're already looking like they'd be about as durable as kleenex™ when armor-tanked.

I tend to think you're missing his point. To me, it seems like what Pierce is saying is: 'Hey, if this is supposed to fix the 'everyone just trains Gallente Industrials cuz duh, Itty V' tendency, it won't. Your average Joe Hauler, who's just schlepping around hi-sec being a Bad, is still going to say 'hey, I haul Ore, I should train Gallente'. And when he trains up the refining skill, he'll say 'Now I haul minerals, I guess I should train... oh, Gallente, cool.' And if he gets into PI, he'll say 'Damn, these loads of Toxic Metals are huge, I should train... huh. Gallente.''

And the trade-off for just training Gallente is... you don't have access to the ammo hauler, and your big general-purpose hauler is like 2k smaller than the biggest one. Really, not enough to worry about.

He's not upset that he's losing anything - for the love of Mittens, he's already said he can fly anything he needs to fly. What he's saying is:

'Hey, you have said part of your reasoning is to fix Problem X. This will not fix Problem X. Be aware of that.'

And he's right. It won't fix the 'everyone just trains Gallente' problem. Not by itself. Personally, I tend to think that it sets the stage for later work that will.

Sure. Or time for training things other than hauling - like industry and refining, or PI skills. Or even Accounting and Broker Relations. After all, what makes those other racial Industrial piloting skills more 'must-have' than the skills that directly impact your bottom line?

You choose what you want to train for in EVE. Those other ships now have roles and aspects that are useful for a large amount of pilots. As opposed to today where they are mostly just ships that sit in a hangar collecting dust from years ago where you decided that flying a hauler that looked cool isn't the best thing to do in EVE.

The point is you don't have to say. Okay I want to haul something big. Okay just got to spend the better part of a month training Gal V and I'm good to go! If you have to move one of the listed types you can say. Okay I just need Gal or mimmy II or III. Do I need to move other items? Do I need more tank to move this awesome find? Would a few drones help?

It is all far more balanced now. And the specialized ships are going to REALLY help newer players get their first big start in EVE. Especially if they can get into Nullsec doing that.

These scrubs think a goon like me would ever need to fly a T1 hauler, heh.

I've been in this game long enough to either haul my stuff in Freighters or just pay scrubs like you all to move it for me. I have absolutely nothing to gain or lose with these changes, I'm simply pointing out bad design when I see it.

Arrendis, I'm glad someone was able to get the gist of the problem, I was beginning to worry I was really being that terrible at driving the point across; I was right though, it's not me, its eveo.

This is probably the last time I flew a T1 industrial, good times.

I'm done arguing this point, I'll just leave this little gem here for CCP Rise to explain to CCP Rise why this proposal is bad.

Simple. He said "For now" The community said they want CCP to actually do something with these hulls and they did. They are implementing the specialized ships. I doubt they were even thinking about Hauler spawns or PI headaches or the issues that give large alliances an unfair advantage for mining when the idea of specialized holds was mentioned just. "These poor ships will continue to collect dust"

The community has found a use for these ships. Large alliances will discover what the community has suggested and they will whine and scream "OVERPOWERED!" While they continue to use lord of the asteroid belts orcas, rorqs, and freighters to solve any pesky hauler spawn or miners with tons of bonuses. Use spacerich pimped hulls for no PI trouble while setting up contracts to bring in more covert ops cloaks.

Guess what - if you want a drone boat, you can't skill minmatar cruiser either.

If you want to use the Badger to move PI, you can do so, you'll still do better than most options you have on TQ right now. In fact, I suspect most low sec people will still use Blockade Runners for PI, which have considerably lower cargo space, but a covert cloak. What Iteron III allows you to do is more or less skip Orca if you're running high sec industrial planets - still, any cargo hauler won't do much worse at it, as long as you know what you're doing. What the Iteron III doesn't allow you to do is load up PI + salvage or whatever and run for the market, which is a severely limiting factor - it's literally just a local boat to manage PI, that's it. You need it? Then you'll simply have to sacrifice that day of training time. You don't need it? Feel free to never skill for it in your entire career.

Why are you even going there?

Want me to play the part of the Evil Goon?


Love the specialized bays! Can't can or plastic wrap anything in them so we can cagro scan and gank the ones we know are worth it. And they are over twice as worth it as before with that massive hold. Did you know you can pack over 200mil isk worth of stuff in a PI hauler, and it will die to maybe 50mil worth of catalysts or thrashers? Awesome job making sure all the general haulers will still be fitting nothing but max cagro mods. Makes it easy to blap them with week old newbees the next time we do Burn Jita.

And the ore only version? Thanks CCP! I'm going to toss a few unfitted ones in Rorqual's ship hanger. Double my ore hauling capability. And you thought this change was sticking it to the space rich? Ha! Watch me use my wealth to jump an entire Rorqual and 4 ore Iterons full of crokite right past those wretched poors.


Now back to reality, where I build and hand out Industrials for PI kits, answer newbee questions everyday, hear endlessly about them dying to the same old gate camp. Where I fly around nullsec hauling billions worth of stuff in T1 Industrials, blockade runners, Orcas and Rorquals.

If this was all about helping the little guy, then just double the max possible cargo holds on all of them. How about we just get past the cargo expansion modification idea, and just give all of them a big separate bay. Quit assuming that it should just be a slow moving container with no other noteworthy traits.

If we are going to have restricted bays, then spread them around to all the races. You may think the ore only bay is really innovative and an addition to the line up, but as some one who has been living with restricted bays for awhile, they are a restriction. It isn't there to let you do more stuff, it is there to limit what you can do. I'd rather pick up my planet goo and a hauler spawn with the same ship than have to keep half a dozen ships that more or less hold equal volume of specific item types. And if I'm picking up hauler spawns, how about giving me something so that getting tackled by rats isn't a sure death.

You want to talk about newbees in Industrials flying around nullsec? They die quickly to gate and belt rats. Our advice if they land in a bubble is "welp". We treated racial Industrial as a prereq in training plans because training it to buff up garbage T1 Industrials was pointless. I guess we were trend setters, telling newbees not to train more than a couple levels of racial Industrial unless they had plans of blockade runners of jump freighters. Now our advice can be even simpler; a couple levels of Gallente Industrial is all that should be trained, and guys on the production/import end only have to bother with stocking Iterons II though V.

Mineral compression and ease of transport is an issue that they are working to resolve. (Changes to hoarder's unpackaged volume.) And they can hopefully make it so that these ships with items in the holds cant be loaded into a carrier. That is where I would personally say overpowered as it has gone beyond newer players having a good single ship to something getting abused to turn carriers into uber mineral haulers.

Do large alliances really think CCP will let that happen for very long? No. That will be stopped and quick and these ships will go back to being good specialized task ships.

Edit: To make it clear I personally want CCP to have different build and reprocess values so railguns and ammo are not used for mineral compression. I don't want things easier for large alliances to build supers.