Player Features and Ideas Discussion

if gall an min get "special ships " so should amarr and caldari anything else would be unbalanced and as far as i can remember this was about ship balancing and this would be an unbalancing i really wanted a badger mark 3,4 and 5 too anything else would be unfair plus a badger mk5 would be awesome

This is something I hadn't ever thought about before. Very interesting application for that hold type.

Then how about the opposite strategy: simply change the hold capacity bonus on the Hoarder and Iteron II-IV to the ORE Industrial skill, while leaving the hulls' minimum skill requirements and velocity bonuses tied to the racial industrial skills.

The ships then remain ostensibly "Gallente" or "Minmatar", so their names and visual design are unchanged, and they still require Gallente/Minmatar Industrial level 1 to fly. But this way the Gallente Industrial skill no longer has so much more value than the other racial industrial skills, while the ORE Industrial skill increases the specialized holds just like it does on all of ORE's own ships, which are the only ones who currently have specialized holds at all.

Speaking of which, that also writes your lore for you: Gallente and Minmatar engineers do not make specialized holds, only ORE does that. So when the Gallente and Minmatar were retrofitting their industrial ships and had some extra models they didn't need anymore, they just licensed some specialized holds from ORE and grafted them onto their old hulls. Consequently, the Gallente and Minmatar Industrial skills still improve those hulls' propulsion systems because those are unchanged, but the ORE Industrial skill is now required in order to improve the special holds' efficiency, because those cargo bays were in fact designed and built by ORE and not the Gallente or Minmatar.

That's also a novelty ship and not really relevant to this rebalance of the actual ships people fly for fun and profit.

The issue is that the Gallente Industrial skill is quantitatively more valuable than the other racial Industrial skills, because it yields vastly superior ore/mineral/PI hauling capacity at the cost of a paltry ~2000m3 general capacity compared to Amarr. That's a little imbalanced, which is why many folks in this thread have been suggesting that the specialized haulers be reassigned to ORE. CCP doesn't want to do that because it would either look half-baked or require art work that they want to focus elsewhere, so I'm proposing a compromise that solves the racial industrial skill imbalance without any art issues.

It is not imbalanced in the least. And if there is ANY reason to move to Ore Industrial Skill. It is because it is a path that will aid newer players in nullsec.

Again these are specialized ships meant for one task then it's back in the hangar.

Also keep in mind that when CCP removes Tiers. They change build requirements. These ships build requirements will likely be changed to that of the current highest to build of the line.

It would be great if all the races had an option for a ~50,000m3 general cargohold if you wanted to pick up a ton of planet goo or a hauler spawn. That is what they should do if they don't want to leave a bunch of ship irrelevant and move newbies closer to the spacerich. Put in some big base cargo or 10% cargo bonus.

This stuff though is just a handout to everyone who already trained Gallente Industrial V. Sure, Iteron V isn't the biggest any more, but who cares because you get 3 super big specialized haulers. It is so overpowered that the Iteron I and V not being best in class is a small price to pay.


The result is the same as what we have now. Train Gallente for hauling, everything else is for gimick fits or people who are bad at math.


faux edit;

I think the idea of just moving the Iteron II-IV and Hoarder to ORE Industrial skills isn't a bad compromise. The models for them can be changed some where down the line. That way every race gets a small/fast and big/slow hauler, and the specialized stuff can be moved to ORE Industrial. Also, seriously consider doing a fleet hanger instead of ammo bay. Ammo bay is way too restricted for normal use, and too good not to be abused for mineral compression or carrier hauling.

Sounds like you want all the races and their ships to be identical so you can pick which race to fly by which one looks best. When I started I went through all the frigate and destroyer hull stats deciding which suited my typical play style and personality the best snd chose that. What you're apparently proposing is the single best way to stagnate the universe and make eve boring and not worth playing.

Except none of the Industrials have any sort of bonus or base skill that makes them really stand out except for the huge specialized bays for Gallente.

The Bestower gets only 2000m3 more for maxed out cargo. The tank on all of them is still mostly meaningless outside of bait fits for guys with lots of level V skills. They all get the same bonuses and there is no real variation or racial flavor or anything unique, aside from the special bays, which the recent edits to the OP show are being nerfed, and the Hoarder is getting to the point of being straight broken.



And I really don't care if the Mammoth gets a probe bonus or not. It's just an idea. I'm sure wormhole guys wouldn't mind a cargo ship that could find its own way out a bit easier. At least it is more of a noticeable difference than 20m/s fast for 2700m3 less cargo, or what ever minor difference is has from a Bestower or Iteron V.


It is still flat out tiers of hauls less and hauls more with little other variation, except Gallente with huge special bays for actually useful materials. I know Industrials aren't the sexiest ships, and giving them a battleship tank or interceptor speed or battlecruiser DPS would be bad. But there has to be other reasons to use other ships besides being shut out of hauling certain things through restricted cargoholds.

Keep in mind that the ships with bays have free low slots. The bay size needs to be toned down or the lows reduced to make them better but not outrageous.

No

They are specialized haulers and are not unbalanced. The bay is for hauling specialized items and can't be affected by mods. That balances them out with the limited tank.



I would also like to know.



Of course that needs to be another topic but I really hope they rebalance one to be a POS/Capital tender. With a combined bay for everything POS and capital related as far as fuels and products.