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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

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Ralmar Kimnot
Okorer
#841 - 2013-06-26 23:48:17 UTC
I have had the pleasure of experiencing the warp tunnel in 10% tidi on a regular basis over the last couple of weeks. It's more bearable when it's slowed down and it prompts people to sing the Dr Who theme over comms Shocked
Castro Pizon
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#842 - 2013-06-26 23:57:48 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Here we go again.

We ARE looking at this.
We are in the process of tweaking camera and FOV changes occurring in jump tunnel, the pre and post tunnel camera work as well.

no eta yet, as this is a slow process - especially with summer upon us and various people going on holidays.


it would be easyer to program an off switch instead of fukin with camera =\but anything is better then current i suppose
Castro Pizon
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#843 - 2013-06-27 00:02:09 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Hey guys,

First off, thanks for all the comments that have been coming in regarding the new jump transition that we introduced with Odyssey. We've been keeping a keen eye on both the positive and negative feedback, and are currently looking at ways to resolve some of the issues that people are experiencing with the transition.

While we can appreciate the concerns that some people have regarding server performance, these can be cleared up very easily. The animation for the transition has absolutely zero effect on the server, or the time it takes for you to travel from system to system. In fact, the time it takes for the client to unload/load data about systems has been reduced drastically (~50%).

The only reason that this transition wasn't added in the past was due to technical limitations, and we decided to do it now due to the fact that part of the vision for EVE is to have a fully immersive experience that isn't interrupted by black screens with loading bars.

The process when jumping is as follows:

  • Player gives the command to jump while in range of a stargate.
  • Client sends notification to the server.
  • Server starts moving you, and relays this back to client.
  • Client starts animation.
  • Client unloads information about previous system.
  • Server finishes moving you to new system.
  • Your ship appears cloaked in new system
  • Server informs client of arrival in new system, and what is on grid.
  • Client loads information about new system into overview/local and begins transition end.
  • You are ready to move.

The transition effectively serves as a visual filler while all of this is going on behind the scenes, and is generated client side with no impact on the performance of the server at all. The time taken only depends on the server starting and ending the move between systems, which doesn't care about the client at all.

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.

We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, both positive and negative. It's being taken on board, and we're looking to make changes based on the things that you guys are concerned with the most, without removing the transition completely.


its not a cop out lol its called free will give the player the choice im sure meny people will keep the animation where the ppl that dont want it will simpley turn it off!
Castro Pizon
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#844 - 2013-06-27 01:28:09 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Mr Pang wrote:
It's easy, leave the anmiation but make the screen fade into black, and then fade back into the game.

no vomiting capsuleers, and you still have your precious animation.. done


Pretty much this if an "off" button isn't allowed.

No one is fussing over the gate animation itself. It's the movement when entering it that is the problem. Remove the start of the entering the gate (and that isn't difficult that's just removing the frames of that part of the animation), and all's well. It's the jump movement that is sickening, not the animation.


ppl r talkin bout the animation aswell it is a lame animation that is sooooooo boreing after 5 jumps as alot of ppl have stated its just ccp being bullheaded that say adding off switch is a cop out which is bull its called giveing customers what they want 3 accounts unsubed 3 on plex and runin out of time! =\
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#845 - 2013-06-27 03:23:34 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Tomba, nice post. This was the reason for my question, as the jump tunnel should have a similar effect as the warp tunnel - give you a sense of rapid movement through the space between systems.
You should be able to chat etc while in jump. Scanning makes no sense as there is nothing to scan there, but that said the basic idea should be similar.

So all those things yeveryone has been saying "this is why we are not complaining about warp", those are the things we need to look at fixing ;)


I think there's a disconnect here, and one that is puzzling. It seems you're searching for something that doesn't even exist (or perhaps justification of a design).

Your concern is how the design looks.

Players are concerned about not being physically sick.

See the problem?

Medical concerns are priority over appearances. This is something that should never be in doubt or second guessed. It's also a design 101 issue -- function over form.

The questions here are:

1. What is the reason for this gate effect?
2. Why is this complexity on a most used item in the game needed?
3. With so many warp effects why do we even have a space background, since it's being lost in it (over designed)?

#3 is a design decision I wonder the most about, because it defeats the reason to have a space background when it's marred so much by warp effects. It also effects the overall polish. It looks so ad hoc, so piecemeal and forced without rhyme or reason.

When adding an effect it should be self-explanatory, not needing an art class to educate players on the intention. It's also not the time to have an art critique AFTER the effect. That is something that needs to be done inhouse and tested on your PTR, with staff that understands what causes vertigo and to avoid it like the plague -- we're not concerned about how the tunnel and gate animations look, we're concerned about the lack of concern about being actually sick over the animations.

Want the AAA game, you have to address the concerns in an AAA manner. AAA games don't sicken players with the animations (and any strobe effects have an epilepsy warning -- your design team did a double whammy. Dock exiting with strobe lights and this!!!). I've had a lot to say with Blizzard with some of their animations, but none of them caused vertigo nor could trigger seizures. Why? Because they check that stuff before release, and have a clear design plan that fits their design and style. This warp tunnel stuff doesn't even look like it belongs in your design (gate animation looks like it fits the space theme, but all this grey and black ink swirls stuff does not -- light is translucent, not like cold matter).

Unified theme, not more ad hoc "hey this is kewl, let's add it" stuff. It looks like a nightmare because it doesn't follow a standard -- exhaust trails in one theme; gate tunnels in another; ship design in still another way. It isn't consistent with a brand. Look at all the AAA games, each has their unique design style that is their trademark and recognized for it.

Sandbox games should not look literally like a sandbox. You're not working in a garage anymore. Design standards are expected now.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#846 - 2013-06-27 04:29:46 UTC
It's not the warp effect that's a problem (there have been warp effects since Day 1); the issue is the zooming in and out before and after the gate jumps. There's really no need for it - we know we're on a gate, our eyeballs don't have be inches away from the thing, just remove the zooming and problem solved.
Pharexia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#847 - 2013-06-27 05:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Pharexia
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.

We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, both positive and negative. It's being taken on board, and we're looking to make changes based on the things that you guys are concerned with the most, without removing the transition completely.

The process when jumping is as follows:


Player gives the command to jump while in range of a stargate.
Client sends notification to the server.
Server starts moving you, and relays this back to client.
Client starts animation.
Client unloads information about previous system.
Server finishes moving you to new system.
Your ship appears cloaked in new system
Server informs client of arrival in new system, and what is on grid.
Client loads information about new system into overview/local and begins transition end.
You are ready to move.


As a Temporary feature allow a black screen with no loading bar... I dont care if it is something that you have to manually set in the config so the vast amount of players won't even care about it. Just a small block of code that says if flag = true
Override animation with black screen.
Just KISS it....No fancy animations... No loading bar... Just black it out until I am ready to move...

If it means that my screen goes black during gate jumps and then it is like a light switch is turned on I don't care.
If it means my reaction time is a bit slower on a gate camp I don't care.
If it means I get killed due to it because of said gate camp again I don't care.
What I do care about and many others on this thread is that currently because I was born the way I was born I suddenly can't play a game I have invested quite a bit of time in and would continue to like to play....

As for a cop out which is worse... accepting that some people can no longer play your game and giving people a temporary work around to give you time to adjust it so everyone is happy......
Or not admitting you didn't think something through all the way and holding fast while you lose customers over something very trivial like a jump animation.....
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#848 - 2013-06-27 05:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: BEPOHNKA
Wiu Ming wrote:
It's not the warp effect that's a problem (there have been warp effects since Day 1); the issue is the zooming in and out before and after the gate jumps. There's really no need for it - we know we're on a gate, our eyeballs don't have be inches away from the thing, just remove the zooming and problem solved.




Like he said their we don't need to remove the effects, just touch it up for us CCP :))



"resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out" all we need :))
Li Tiger
Deep Space Resources Ltd.
#849 - 2013-06-27 06:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Li Tiger
Will people stop saying the tunnel is not a problem! It is a huge problem ... dammit!
Suddenly there is apparently few now seems the tunnel itself is a problem?!? I do not know about you but I find myself that I will have to look anywhere else when I gate jumps than on my screen.

Warp tunnel is quite simply tremendous over made!

Cam overtake AND Tunnel animation is a problem ... at least for me it is!

Just an idea for ccp. Next time ccp displays such an action on your Fan celebration so please only use your allways huge positive feedback as a friendly pat on your shoulders. Please do not use your fan celebration as a guide to implement stuff!

Damn this is a FAN party ... ccp can bloody ads a presentation and then come and just strike a fart and go again. There must be bloody hell no higher science to this that just that FART will receive a huge ovation as if right here came the world's best presentation! Blink
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#850 - 2013-06-27 07:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Tomba wrote:

Exactly.

Putting aside the objective part where it causes nausea and the warp tunnel doesn't....


The warp effect is natural, it leaves you in control of the camera, it still looks like you are still in space just moving faster, it is seamless, it doesn't break immersion by putting on a random light and sound show. It doesn't stutter in the middle. There is no rollercoaster section at the start or the at the end and you don't have to press C or look away.

The warp effect is perfectly understated and really quite a classy little way to show we are on our way while letting us get on with playing the game.

The jump effect is trying too hard to impress when really it should be trying to do it's job and go away again without causing a fuss. Jumping is just a way to get to the next system, it doesn't need a fanfare as if we just completed a WoW quest or something.

Credit where it's due: Great to have some proper feedback, and I am hopeful this is on track now!

I fail to see how that part is objective. I can in no way, shape or form see why people get dizzy from this. Seriously, the camera just moves a bit. Can you people even watch TV or movies? I mean, that should be vomiting galore, it's moving images all the time!


On the note of warping, it's natural to be able to do all those things, seeing as you are still in your ship, flying at just a different speed than sublight. When jumping, you are no longer a ship. You are waves or particles or some crazy stuff, that are sent from one solar system to another. There are COMPLETELY different things going on from a technical and lore perspective, so having it look just like the warp would be stupid.

When jumping, they made a perfect illustration of moving extremely fast, a lot faster than mere warp speed.
Counter to your argument of "just jumping from one place to another", why do we even have a warp tunnel?
What is the point?
Why do people want HD textures?
Why are they doing V3 shaders?
Why do they have the art department make new models?
Why did they reskin so many ships?
Why did they make new hangars?
Why do we have turret models?
Why do we have launcher models?
Why do we have visible missiles?

- It looks good

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#851 - 2013-06-27 07:41:11 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:

I fail to see how that part is objective. I can in no way, shape or form see why people get dizzy from this.


Then just say so and move a long, as you refuse to acknowledge people are different than you.

This is a medical issue, and one designers need to be aware of -- this includes strobe light effects, too.

If you've seen the light effects in WoW now in raids, with all those effects going off with 25 players -- not one causes dizziness or seizures. It's because they don't use effects that trigger those symptoms. There's plenty of pretty effects that can be done, and none need to be triggers.

This is about as serious of an issue you'll find in gaming, as it actually affects players physically. It's not some whine over some game mechanic, the effects are beyond the game itself.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#852 - 2013-06-27 07:51:12 UTC
Quote:
If you've seen the light effects in WoW now in raids, with all those effects going off with 25 players -- not one causes dizziness or seizures. It's because they don't use effects that trigger those symptoms. There's plenty of pretty effects that can be done, and none need to be triggers.


Again with the WoW... that seriously needs to be made into a forum violation or something.

Anyway...

Someone clearly didn't play the PandaLand beta and PTR. There were threads up about 24/7 about physical issues arising from the graphics. They were there until main launch, when the forums got purged by the mods. Blizz didn't, and doesn't, care.

Furthermore, it is entirely specious reasoning to compare strobe effects, which cause seizures, to motion sickness, which is caused by a feeling of motion when the body remains still. They are entirely unrelated ailments.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ellie McAmber
Dodixie Federal Credit Union
#853 - 2013-06-27 08:18:05 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:

I fail to see how that part is objective. I can in no way, shape or form see why people get dizzy from this. Seriously, the camera just moves a bit. Can you people even watch TV or movies?


Yup, you got it right. I cannot watch some movies. Still remember the day I went to see "Constant Gardener". Awesome movie, but got me absolutely, unbearably motion-sick.

I also loved playing Halo, but it took me 3 months to get through the first game. Because I could not play more than 20 minutes at a time.

Just because YOU don't get it does not mean it is not a problem for some people. Also, nobody is trying to change YOUR gameplay. Why do you even bother to post here?


CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel?
It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose.

Yes the jump tunnel is sub-par, so we are working on improving it.



Dear CCP Sisyphus, we greatly appreciate your participation in this thread.
However, your question has already been answered in the previous 40+ pages, ad nauseam (see what I did there? Big smile).

The new animation is visually disruptive and resource intensive. Most importantly, it eventually causes nausea for some people (including me). The warp tunnel does none of the above. Never did. So you don't get any requests to turn it off.

In your previous post you said that giving us an option to turn it off will be a "cop out". I beg to disagree. This was a change that made the game literally unbearable to play, for me and for many other people. And it is really disappointing that by page 42, the original "there is no old system anymore" reply is still being defended.

I have two accounts. One of them is PLEXed until September 2014. I wish I could get a refund for it, but I know I can't. My second account expired yesterday. I am not renewing it. I wish I can return to EVE one day (so nobody can have my stuff), but I feel this is another Incarna, and I am deeply disappointed.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#854 - 2013-06-27 08:19:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Furthermore, it is entirely specious reasoning to compare strobe effects, which cause seizures, to motion sickness, which is caused by a feeling of motion when the body remains still. They are entirely unrelated ailments.

Not only that, but it's a scientific case of HTFU.

No I'm serious, the only cure to motion sickness is to expose yourself to it for a long enough time to make your brain capable of syncing it's electrical signals.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#855 - 2013-06-27 08:24:35 UTC
Ellie McAmber wrote:

Just because YOU don't get it does not mean it is not a problem for some people. Also, nobody is trying to change YOUR gameplay. Why do you even bother to post here?


Ellie McAmber wrote:

The new animation is visually disruptive and resource intensive.


Classy.

Actually it's NOT resource intensive. They have repeated ad nauseum (I can do this stuff as well you know) that it takes no more resources than a regular warp tunnel effect. What's takin up resources is the actual act of jumping from one system to another, where they have also been doing extreme optimizations, so it's even less resource intensive than what it used to be.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#856 - 2013-06-27 08:24:52 UTC



Ellie McAmber wrote:
I have two accounts. One of them is PLEXed until September 2014. I wish I could get a refund for it, but I know I can't. My second account expired yesterday. I am not renewing it. I wish I can return to EVE one day (so nobody can have my stuff), but I feel this is another Incarna, and I am deeply disappointed.


And you let your accounts expire and didn't come back after Incarna either, I see

Ellie McAmber wrote:

Yup, you got it right. I cannot watch some movies. Still remember the day I went to see "Constant Gardener". Awesome movie, but got me absolutely, unbearably motion-sick.

I also loved playing Halo, but it took me 3 months to get through the first game. Because I could not play more than 20 minutes at a time.


You don't have very good taste in movies and games in my opinion


Please note: This reply isn't supposed to be constructive. Its just to let you know how 43 pages of this crap feels to us who can't stand to hear how a silly animation makes you miscarry.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#857 - 2013-06-27 08:29:20 UTC
After reading all the comments while waiting for the patch to download, I was expecting a lot worse jump animation than it was. Its bearable as is, but I speak only for myself.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#858 - 2013-06-27 08:34:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Again with the WoW... that seriously needs to be made into a forum violation or something.


Why? Because you can't deny the 800lb gorilla in the room. Unless you want to remain deaf, dumb and blind.

Like...

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Anyway...

Someone clearly didn't play the PandaLand beta and PTR.


Thanks for letting us know why we're not getting vertigo and seizures with 100000001 light effects going off in 25mans, on live servers.

Maybe instead of cheering a new effect, they will test it out before releasing it on Tranquility, right? Idea

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#859 - 2013-06-27 08:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
Why? Because you can't deny the 800lb gorilla in the room.


If it's hacking from lung cancer, and slowly dying from cutting itself, yes, I can. Particularly if I don't want to play with the monkey, and I want to go play in the sandbox instead, where I can make my own game, instead of doing whatever the monkey wants to do.

Quote:
Thanks for letting us know why we're not getting vertigo and seizures with 100000001 light effects going off in 25mans, on live servers.

Maybe instead of cheering a new effect, they will test it out before releasing it on Tranquility, right?


Didn't say it wasn't an issue. It still is, I know people who have quit WoW over it. Knock off the straw man arguments, and please, stop making stuff up.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#860 - 2013-06-27 09:12:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Why? Because you can't deny the 800lb gorilla in the room.


If it's hacking from lung cancer, and slowly dying from cutting itself, yes, I can.


I think what's suicidal here is your wish for EvE.

And since you're not adding to the topic, I'm just adding you to /ignore as well. It's the best place for trolls.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell