Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thats what was missing.

The New Ammo Hauler (Hoarder), should be able to haul POS modules in its hold also (or the new Iteron II). One of them should be able to grab and haul/move POS modules/batteries, hangers, SBU's, Claim Units, etc.

That would cover about everything needed regarding mass hauling.

So long as there is still enough cpu to fit an expanded probe launcher, it isn't so bad. I know the Mammoth in particular has more cpu than you can really use.

Two things I would like to point out here, first the cargo holds you're introducing all have a base capacity that is at least 22% higher than the largest regular hauler with full expanders and racial skill to 5, with skills this differential goes up to 37%. This makes them the only viable option for that particular activity.

The activities for which you are adding these special ship roles are some of the most usual uses for T1 industrial ships, so you are effectively re-introducing the same imbalance we had before, and curiously enough the Gallente went from the best T1 industrial to the only T1 industrial skill worth using. Wanting to move Ore, PI or Minerals in anything other than Gallente industrials leaves you in an even worse situation than we have now where the Iteron V is only 26.5% better than the Bestower.

So much for rebalancing...



So now for anyone moving Minerals, Ore or PI commodities (what else is worth moving in a T1 hauler?) the only choice is Gallente, not by a 26.5% difference, but a 75% difference. Yeah, I liked that newer version better too.

You wanted to introduce a little racial variety, but all you ended up doing was break the class even more than it was originally, give those specialized industrials a 10-15% extra capacity in their specialized cargo holds at max skill so not everyone feels obligated to train Gallente Industrial V. Or at least remove the hull bonus to the special cargo hold so that people who feel the need to cross train only need to train them to 1 to get the full benefit.

If you're serious about what you do, you move that in orca or freighter.
T1 haulers are made for casual players and hauling your stuff (bit of ships, modules, etc), and will still be used for that.

I agree good choices only thing i miss is that I think that some of the Itty hulls should get another base skill instead of
Gallente Industrial it should require Ore Industrial.

(Ore hauler for example)

and im still missing a smuggler industrial with minimal bay but that might be "hoping" as a Tec2 version
since moving drugs around is a pita.

I would suggest that there is an obvious way to avoid the problem: remove mineral compression.

Stop being lazy. Training Gallente Industrial to V isn't a hard task. Second, you get a significant benefit over the heavy haulers at even Gallente Industrial I, which takes all of, what, 15 to 20 minutes to train? No one is going to train up to Gallente Industrial V if they don't need to, so that obligation bit is nonsense.

Then why address the imbalance in the first place? If training Gallente Industrial to V is no big deal, lets just leave it as it is now and move on to more important ships to rebalance.

These really are sort of thoughtless and hamfisted changes. CCP Rise should have stopped when he had to say "We feel that these are already pushing the boundaries of tech 1 specialization..."


There are a ton of bonuses they could choose from to give the T1 industrials a little more utility or make them stand out from the others. The specialized bays are a straight up nerf to anyone who already owns one for general hauling. I know it is going to involve me reprocessing a ton of Hoarders because an ammo bay on an otherwise unbonused industrial is worthless. No one will use it on a battlefield as an ammo cache. Carriers can do this AND let you fit more drones and refit other weapons, and blockade runners can use blops bridges to travel with and supply bombers.

The new indy meta with this is going to be Badger for tank and (still) Itty V for max cargo. The Itteron IV will no doubt see some use as an ore truck for mining fleets, but people will still need to buy another indy to use for general hauling. The cargo and agility/velocity bonuses still means there is no big difference between the industrials and easy cross training means even less reason to use them since you aren't locked into 1 race so much.



You like the idea of a Battle Badger? shield resits
Want an ammo cache ship? make the cargo bay a fleet hanger with refit
Ore truck to pick up from an Orca? big agility bonus
Ore truck for solo miners using jet cans? tractor beam bonus, survey bonus for finding the next good rock
General support industrial? remote rep/cap bonus
How about a Gallente drone boat support? drone bonus damage/hitpoints/repair/e-war
Get between trade hubs quickly? agility/warp speed and a cap bonus to get between distant gates.
A POS managing ship? anchor time bonus, maybe a cyno bonus (shorter duration, less LO consumption)



They should be choosing bonuses that make people want to use one industrial over another because is generally better for certain tasks. Not forcing people to buy multiple industrials because they are locked into only hauling specific items with specific ships. Over all, these changes mean that T1 industrials are still fairly crappy, and people will still make a bee line to Orcas for overall utility and freighters for serious cargo hauling.

Seriously, with the skill changes, you can get into an Orca with big cargo, fleet hanger, ship hanger, refit, drones, serious tank for about the same time it takes to max out an Iteron V. The T1 industrials need bonuses aside from just cargo/speed to make them useful beyond ships for people to poor to get an Orca.

Good Job, now do command ships.