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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#221 - 2013-06-26 20:01:20 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Count me as one of the few who aren't impressed with these changes and think the specialized cargo bays are dumb.

Why get 3 separate ships to haul planet goo, ore and ammo, when I could just get 1 Mammoth or Itty V that can haul anything.


Think of it this way...

You can't pick up your planet stuff, haul it to Jita to sell, buy a small hull or modules and haul them back. Or if you are mining to build stuff, you can haul ore to a station, but can't haul finished products out.


Long term, this just leads back to people mostly using only a couple of the T1 industrials, and the rest used rarely or not at all. Like who needs a special ammo hauler? Can't fit a covops cloak so it won't be used as a bomb truck for stealth bomber fleets. Not flexible enough to haul any other needed supplies to the front lines of a war. No drones? Holds ammo but not the guns? Absolutely pointless.
Is it as pointless as 4 ships being utterly useless? Nobody is compelling you to use any of the specialized-bay ships, and you have every opportunity to fly one of the "large" haulers if you prefer general goods.

Your argument seems to suggest that you'd rather limit choices and marginalize ships solely for the sake that you don't see the value in having specialized ships.

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Hildulfr
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#222 - 2013-06-26 20:02:06 UTC
Much better than the first go around! Really like most of the changes and ideas that went into the second round of changes. Nice job taking in the feedback and working with it. There may be some haters, but it can't be for lack of trying here.
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-06-26 20:02:11 UTC
Well, each race has flavor now. I like how gallente can specialize in different stuff... but now I need to get a new ship.

I still don't see why you guys didn't just do ore haulers instead though.

I can has blogging skills!
Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#224 - 2013-06-26 20:02:11 UTC
Overall excellent changes, just one thing, will the special edition Ity 4 get any bigger Ore hold? They are now very rare but give them 100k m3 ore bay and we can soon see them flying again...

When is 1.1 coming?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#225 - 2013-06-26 20:04:26 UTC
I don't think there's any need to change the names, I'm really happy with the functions being changed though, the names should stay the same for continuity reasons otherwise well have threads requesting name changes for practically anything. 'Can you change the ferox name to the "purdy puttycat"...'

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-06-26 20:14:19 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I don't think there's any need to change the names, I'm really happy with the functions being changed though, the names should stay the same for continuity reasons otherwise well have threads requesting name changes for practically anything. 'Can you change the ferox name to the "purdy puttycat"...'

A easy way to identify what it is would be nice.

Iteron type A
Iteron type O
iteron type P

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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2013-06-26 20:26:18 UTC
Quote:
Overall excellent changes, just one thing, will the special edition Ity 4 get any bigger Ore hold?


The special edition ships are kind of odd.. Right now I have them set basically as Iteron Vs that are slightly better. I think they should probably stay that way since having a specialized hold seems strange for a ship that goes out for special events to a broad set of players.

@ccp_rise
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#228 - 2013-06-26 20:27:30 UTC
I am immensely pleased by the special cargo bays, but moreover by the fact that the CPU output of industrials aren't on-par with a titan any more.

The only issue I can see is that they ALL don't get that nice agility bonus. Apart from that, I find this immensely appealing.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#229 - 2013-06-26 20:34:30 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
What about one that can have a bounes fuel bay to hold pos fuel blocks / isotopes / jump fuel /stront for caps bo's bridging things?


I can see this carrying over into the Blockade runner role a bit. Their cargo hold is already deceptively small, so there seems to be plenty of room to add a big fuel bay/block bay thing.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#230 - 2013-06-26 20:35:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
ITERON MARK IV - Ore Bay (Ore includes Gas, Ice, and Mineral Ore)

Gallente Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Ore Hold Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 2H(+1), 4M, 4L(+1); 1 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 120 PWG(+50), 260 CPU(-490)
Cargo (capacity / Ore Hold Capacity): 550(-4700) / 50000
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 590(+355) / 710(-306) / 950(-223)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .94(-.06) / 12975000(+1725000) / 16.9(+1.3)
Signature radius: 205(-15)
Warp speed: 4.5au/s
Would it be possible to move one of the low slots in this ship to a high? It'd help us to be able to fit more tractor beams for whenever it needs to pick up jetcans, and the lows aren't terribly useful for expanding the cargo hold anymore.

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Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-06-26 20:37:17 UTC
Do Like Rise! Well done!

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#232 - 2013-06-26 20:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Is it as pointless as 4 ships being utterly useless? Nobody is compelling you to use any of the specialized-bay ships, and you have every opportunity to fly one of the "large" haulers if you prefer general goods.

Your argument seems to suggest that you'd rather limit choices and marginalize ships solely for the sake that you don't see the value in having specialized ships.



I think they should get some more generally useful bonuses instead of being put into some niche that results in the same issue now of ships just not getting used. At least for Minmatar, I liked the idea more of Wreathe for agility, Hoarder for tank, Mammoth for cargo. Since they made cross training easier, they could look into other more specialized bonuses.

I would rather have a choice of hauling ore in an agile, tanky or some other ship with a generally useful bonus than a ship that can only hold ore and does nothing else.

I would rather see;

Caldari/Amarr shield/armor resists
tractor beam speed/range
survey range
a decent drone bay and drone bonus (repair drone bonus?)
local/remote rep bonus
change the cargohold to equal size 'fleet hanger' with refitting


And that is without getting into specifically offensive stuff. Like weapons bonus for the ever popular Battle Badger, or some sort of ECM or energy neut bonus to shake off gankers.
Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
#233 - 2013-06-26 20:40:51 UTC
Quick question -- are the Badger Mark II's shield/armor values correct?

Every other hull follows the usual racial pattern:

  • Amarr armor >> shield
  • Gallente armor > shield
  • Minmatar armor < shield
  • Caldari armor << shield

except for the Badger Mark II, which has slightly more armor than shielding. I'd say it's a typo but the delta values do line up with its current shield/armor HP. Seems odd though.
Kor Kilden
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc.
#234 - 2013-06-26 20:45:28 UTC
I wish I could hit the like button more than once without it toggling, but I guess that's what alts are for...

For what little it's worth, now I have a good excuse to use something other than a mammoth. Let the market speculation begin!
Justin Thyme
The Salvage and Reclamation Guild
#235 - 2013-06-26 20:49:38 UTC
Kor Kilden wrote:
I wish I could hit the like button more than once without it toggling, but I guess that's what alts are for...

For what little it's worth, now I have a good excuse to use something other than a mammoth. Let the market speculation begin!



I was just looking. I think it already has.

"Hunting rats is like mining for scrap metal... and occasionally striking gold"  I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thiev...-- Justin Thyme
Anshu Zephyran
Knavery Inc.
#236 - 2013-06-26 20:50:58 UTC
Love these changes! My only wish is that for the Iteron I get enough bandwith for a full flight of lights.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#237 - 2013-06-26 20:57:00 UTC
Ok, some people mentioned it already :-D
Great changes!

The second set definitely was worth going trough the painful last thread.
Thank you Rise!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#238 - 2013-06-26 20:57:06 UTC
Anshu Zephyran wrote:
Love these changes! My only wish is that for the Iteron I get enough bandwith for a full flight of lights.


I somewhat can't fathom the drones helping outside of a very lucky ecm hit. Doesn't hurt the ship I suppose.

This is a good start. Though now I have to train a few of my alts down the gallente path (level 4 should do fine).

Also.. will the mineral/build cost change?

Yaay!!!!
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#239 - 2013-06-26 21:06:47 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:


And then there's the problem with tanks being nerfed across the board. Ganker's paradise...


NERFED? did you read the changes?

Yeah. The big haulers, the ones people will actually use, all got their base tanks nerfed, and their CPU nerfed so they can't fit as big of a shield tank anymore.

Ganker's paradise.


They didn't get their CPU nerfed to fit less of a shield tank. They got it nerfed so ships like the badger 2 didn't have more base cpu than a FREAKING TITAN.

Also, they can actually fit BETTER tanks now due to the extra PG. Previously they were unable to fit large shield extenders. Now they can. This is a good thing.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#240 - 2013-06-26 21:07:07 UTC
I like the changes and the Iitty name can stay. Looks like I will have to own all the Itty hulls to move my stuff; at least they all look different. I really like the ammo bay because it would be very easy for new pilots to get in to big fights by just being cloaked and sitting in system for an ammo cache. Personally I like the imbalance between the races because it highlights each race's differences without creating an imbalance in fighting.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson