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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

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Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#161 - 2013-06-26 17:34:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
More armor than shields is bacause thats how the racial design works usually, no reason to change it here just because you will usually have expanders fit.


Oh how the naive think; it should be a sport picking out these blanket predictions for future balancing turmoil.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2013-06-26 17:34:30 UTC
Denidil wrote:

Orca already exists.


True, but the skillset needed to use it for hauling ships is ridiculous. It shouldn't be a requirement to branch into the mining skills for this task. But, this does go into my next question for CCP Rise and CCP Ytterbium and CCP Fozzie: Can we expect an Ore or Industrial ship capable of hauling other ships like the Orca? Ideally, if it could haul up to two battleships (and that can be at level 5), that would produce a new revenue stream for those who buy regular BSes on the open market, then rig them to resell them again at a higher price, or for better logistical control.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#163 - 2013-06-26 17:35:00 UTC
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:
Why don't you give each race the same number of Industrials and give them the same specificity of the Gallente?


Why waist time for dews and artists only to duplicate same functionality for each race? There is no need to make all races mirror images of each other. Even if they have different number of ships it is possible to make each race worth skilling for for their specific reasons. If they were all same you would skill only in one race, and that would be boring. Making each race different forces you to make choices, and makes those choices matter.

I would say this asymmetrical arrangement of indies is far more interesting then if we had “n” number of indis for each race doing exactly the same thing in same way.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#164 - 2013-06-26 17:38:47 UTC
Rise, I would ask a serious question: It seems like each race, except for Amarr, has some sort of lolpvp boat, with of course the Battle Badger (now with more HAMs), the Iteron with drones + turret, and the Hoarder being able to fit two turrets. Any chance we could see the Sigil or Bestower having a second turret hardpoint added? I don't mean to add an additional high slot; leave the highs at two and just add an additional turret.

No reason Amarr pilots should be left out on lolpvp ops. ^.^

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2013-06-26 17:51:52 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Denidil wrote:

Orca already exists.


True, but the skillset needed to use it for hauling ships is ridiculous. It shouldn't be a requirement to branch into the mining skills for this task. But, this does go into my next question for CCP Rise and CCP Ytterbium and CCP Fozzie: Can we expect an Ore or Industrial ship capable of hauling other ships like the Orca? Ideally, if it could haul up to two battleships (and that can be at level 5), that would produce a new revenue stream for those who buy regular BSes on the open market, then rig them to resell them again at a higher price, or for better logistical control.

Freighter and plastic wrapped battleships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#166 - 2013-06-26 17:52:24 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Denidil wrote:

Orca already exists.


True, but the skillset needed to use it for hauling ships is ridiculous. It shouldn't be a requirement to branch into the mining skills for this task. But, this does go into my next question for CCP Rise and CCP Ytterbium and CCP Fozzie: Can we expect an Ore or Industrial ship capable of hauling other ships like the Orca? Ideally, if it could haul up to two battleships (and that can be at level 5), that would produce a new revenue stream for those who buy regular BSes on the open market, then rig them to resell them again at a higher price, or for better logistical control.


I think they might do this with a tech 2 ship, or perhaps a new line of high allowed capitals (*cough*light carrier*cough*).

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Callic Veratar
#167 - 2013-06-26 17:53:42 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Rise, I would ask a serious question: It seems like each race, except for Amarr, has some sort of lolpvp boat, with of course the Battle Badger (now with more HAMs), the Iteron with drones + turret, and the Hoarder being able to fit two turrets. Any chance we could see the Sigil or Bestower having a second turret hardpoint added? I don't mean to add an additional high slot; leave the highs at two and just add an additional turret.

No reason Amarr pilots should be left out on lolpvp ops. ^.^


New Amarr industrial with 2/3 high slots for lasers and new Caldari industrial with a POS fuel bay?
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#168 - 2013-06-26 17:54:21 UTC
So I can go Gallente and need four different ships for four different roles...or I can go Amarr, fill the hold with GSCs, and have 50k m3 of space for whatever I want, not just specific products. Ore, minerals, and PI products all are fairly small, so they fill GSCs well.

I guess if you're lazy and don't want to deal with GSCs, the new Gallente options are good? Glad I held off training to wait for this announcement, since the Amarr one makes the entire Gallente line obsolete.

And then there's the problem with tanks being nerfed across the board. Ganker's paradise...
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#169 - 2013-06-26 17:54:55 UTC
dont wanna discourage your work CCP Rise, but is a mineral hauler necessary?, maybe it could be used for something more meaningfull i mean, any common hauler can move minerals, it would make more sense to use those 50k m3 of bay for something like fuel for example, which its a more important matter than minerals. maybe leave minerals for the Iteron IV along with its ore, ice and gas support.

overall, that new proposal looks better than the other, nice job. im looking forward to see my improved bestower.
Callic Veratar
#170 - 2013-06-26 17:55:07 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
Denidil wrote:

Orca already exists.


True, but the skillset needed to use it for hauling ships is ridiculous. It shouldn't be a requirement to branch into the mining skills for this task. But, this does go into my next question for CCP Rise and CCP Ytterbium and CCP Fozzie: Can we expect an Ore or Industrial ship capable of hauling other ships like the Orca? Ideally, if it could haul up to two battleships (and that can be at level 5), that would produce a new revenue stream for those who buy regular BSes on the open market, then rig them to resell them again at a higher price, or for better logistical control.


I think they might do this with a tech 2 ship, or perhaps a new line of high allowed capitals (*cough*light carrier*cough*).


ORE Industrial Carrier with 2.5M ship maintenance bay.
Dave Stark
#171 - 2013-06-26 17:55:15 UTC
excellent, the badger mk2 having the highest base cargo but lowest potential cargo (that's still the case? i'll admit i glanced over those parts) is quite nice, it's interesting.

as for the specialised ship, that's nice also.

however, there still seems to be no reason to buy any of them over an orca other than "i r teh poor" are you going to bother addressing that?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#172 - 2013-06-26 17:56:13 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*Quickly looks at the thread*

You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!

You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!

Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is doing to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished. Evil


Whoa there, slow down now. Just because we like these changes doesn't give you the liberty to go around saying Rise is doing a good job. When the day comes that he is actually doing a good job, I will be the first to give him his cake-in-a-jar. Until then, no cake for you Rise!
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#173 - 2013-06-26 17:56:46 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:


And then there's the problem with tanks being nerfed across the board. Ganker's paradise...


NERFED? did you read the changes?

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-06-26 17:58:38 UTC
here's another idea for the Iteron II, extend its use not only for minerals, but other refined comodities like ice derivated products and moon materials.

we dont actually have a dedicated moon goo hauler anyways.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#175 - 2013-06-26 17:59:15 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
Denidil wrote:

Orca already exists.


True, but the skillset needed to use it for hauling ships is ridiculous. It shouldn't be a requirement to branch into the mining skills for this task. But, this does go into my next question for CCP Rise and CCP Ytterbium and CCP Fozzie: Can we expect an Ore or Industrial ship capable of hauling other ships like the Orca? Ideally, if it could haul up to two battleships (and that can be at level 5), that would produce a new revenue stream for those who buy regular BSes on the open market, then rig them to resell them again at a higher price, or for better logistical control.


I think they might do this with a tech 2 ship, or perhaps a new line of high allowed capitals (*cough*light carrier*cough*).


ORE Industrial Carrier with 2.5M ship maintenance bay.


I don't think it should be an ORE ship. I think full caps and supercaps need their SMA sizes increased and then a new series of "light capitals" added between battleship and full caps. light dreads and light carriers - high sec allowed, not allowed in level 4 missions.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#176 - 2013-06-26 18:00:51 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*Quickly looks at the thread*

You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!

You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!

Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is doing to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished. Evil

You see we are reasonable people who hate moaning and only do it when we are right and you are wrong. Big smile

Was hoping for an exotic dancer bay but I suppose that will have to wait for the Badger 3.

Fear God and Thread Nought
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-06-26 18:01:33 UTC
is there actually any reason to use these specialized ships when they are all horribly inefficient outside their very small defined role?

I'm not that interested in having to use seven different ships to do the work of one. its rather sad to think that big cargo boxes in space cant hold more then one type of thing. or that anyone whos ever dealt with shipping would like the idea of restricted boxes.

Im sure that they will all get used some, but in a year only the base models will still be getting produced in numbers.

utility ought to novelty

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2013-06-26 18:01:47 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*Quickly looks at the thread*

You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!

You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!

Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is doing to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished. Evil



I think CCP Rise is being racist in that he wants a Caldari Citizen that is loyal to the State to have to cross train & use stupid gallente ships because there is no other choice.

I thought CCP broke up the standard battlecruiser /destroyer skill into each faction battlecruiser/destroyer skill to make the Tier cycle correct.

CCP you are going backwards putting the different cargo bay ships under the gallente & minmatar only.

Make these specialty ships fall under the ORE Industrial Group.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Deirdre Anethoel
Objectif Licorne
#179 - 2013-06-26 18:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Deirdre Anethoel
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:

May I suggest this bay should be able to contain drones too? And paste.



... reading comprehension; it holds paste and doesn't hold drones (at least in the ammo bay).
get a normal hauler for drone supply. without a carrier or other ship with fitting service, you could not refill your drone bay anyway.



I understood it wasn't able to hold drones, hence why I suggested it. Of course, it should go with the ability to put drones into drone bays, and may be a bit complicated/too much, you're right.
Quote:

I think CCP Rise is being racist in that he wants a Caldari Citizen that is loyal to the State to have to cross train & use stupid gallente ships because there is no other choice.

I thought CCP broke up the standard battlecruiser /destroyer skill into each faction battlecruiser/destroyer skill to make the Tier cycle correct.

CCP you are going backwards putting the different cargo bay ships under the gallente & minmatar only.

Make these specialty ships fall under the ORE Industrial Group.


Agreed. the fact that you have the models should not be a lazy reason to put them under gallente and minmatar. Especially since you made 4 of them, you could have one by race, or all in ORE. Getting stopped by the fact that it would require new models is pure lazyness. If it's better for the game, it should be this way. Even if it takes some more time to get ready. This change will stay for a LONG while, until the next rebalance, and you should make sure it's as good as possible before shipping it, and not accept half solutions.
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2013-06-26 18:07:46 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Just a thought why not introduce the Badger mrk III into the game as the large transport as that is the model the Bustard is made on. This would give you the badger mrk II as the third ship for the Caldari. Then only the Amarr would be left out and it would make more sense IMO.

Fred


If they made a third Amarr hauler it would obviously have a "livestock" bay. Since players have little need to haul around livestock, we can just pretend it already exists but nobody uses it.