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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

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Divine Frog
Protek Industries
#121 - 2013-06-26 16:08:17 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
New names for the iterons with special roles plz. They are no longer merely the 3rd or 4th version of the same ship after all :)

I whole-heartedly approve of these changes, and I also fully concur with this post.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-06-26 16:09:53 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Ore hold includes Gas

Mineral hold does not include Gas and Ice products

Ammo hold includes cap charges, nanite paste, bombs, and anything else in the "charge" group I believe (I will confirm this soon).

We talked about doing a POS fueler (and I expect this to be the most legit complaint) but it just isn't possible atm. I can't go into specifics but please trust me here =/

Renaming strikes me as messy, but I'll bring it up with our story department and see what their opinion is.


Pls combine Mineral and ORE into one ship

Pllllsssss work on POS fueler.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#123 - 2013-06-26 16:10:00 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hm a few more answers:

Ammo hold will not fit drones

Only the first group is changed to 6au. Maybe I'll update OP with the value listed for the other roles.

All of the stats in OP are base stats with no skills taken into account (except for the potential capacity number listed after base capacity) - More armor than shields is bacause thats how the racial design works usually, no reason to change it here just because you will usually have expanders fit.

Expanders will not affect the new bays.

The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that.

Please don't expect name changes or art changes. I understand why you would want this but I just don't think its going to happen. We aren't going to just call Iterons ORE ships and leave the art the same, and we also aren't going to invest art resources in new modeling (or we would have made extra haulers for Amarr/Caldari), so they will be staying where they are. Name changes are slightly more realistic, but I still doubt the benefit would outweigh the harm. I will still investigate this.

Very happy with your reaction, glad we could figure this out.
Thanks again, Rise for the fantastic overtime hours you guys put into this ship pass. They've been given roles and a purpose!

If the Iteron III doesn't hold command centers in its PI hold, will you consider making the main hold 1000 m3? I think it only makes sense that the PI hauler could set up the PI to be done in the first place.

I would like to go on record to say that ships should NOT be renamed. Iteron Mark (whatever) adds to the charm--and flavor, there's that word!--of the Iteron line, and I think adding more names would just make things confusing and disjumbled.

I also wanted to ask if the Iteron and Sigil were intended to carry less than the two shield-biased ships, considering that they have much fewer low slots, and the armor boats, if even given a DCU, is going to cut into that already small cargo room--maybe a slight bump to their holds (though not to throw the badger off the top; that's a good consolation, considering the Badger Mk. II is the small "large" ship and the Charon again retakes the crown.).

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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2013-06-26 16:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
The Primae has 2 holds, one for commodities and one for CCs. And to the above poster - the goal here is to provide niche roles to these ships, which is definitely accomplished through the commodities hold alone, as other people above have attested to. edit: as an astute player has pointed out, cargo expanders allow you to fit CCs in the base cargo hold fairly easily.

As far as the Orca - Because it does things other than have an Ore hold, I'm not super concerned about the overlap with the Iteron Mark whatever, but I'll check with Fozzie/Ytterbium to see what they think about it.

@ccp_rise
FistyMcBumBasher
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-06-26 16:15:29 UTC
I really like the way these changes look, a lot more diversity than the original ones proposed. You and your team going back to the drawing board gives me confidence in your ability to keep making amazing changes. Is it possible for the ships with special bays to also have a normal cargohold of about 500m3? For those situations where you need to haul buttloads of the special bay and just a small amount of normal cargo.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#126 - 2013-06-26 16:16:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
The Primae has 2 holds, one for commodities and one for CCs. And to the above poster - the goal here is to provide niche roles to these ships, which is definitely accomplished through the commodities hold alone, as other people above have attested to.


Ahh.. i never actually got one - my accounts were inactive for a short period RIGHT THEN *facepalm*

CCP Rise wrote:
As far as the Orca - Because it does things other than have an Ore hold, I'm not super concerned about the overlap with the Iteron Mark whatever, but I'll check with Fozzie/Ytterbium to see what they think about it.


Good :D The Orca and Rorqual are big arse mining capitals and thus should really have ore bay far in excess of a tech 1 industrial. Especially since the Mackinaw's bay is only 5km3 less than the Orcas now. Orca really should have 300,000m3 to 400,000m3 and the Rorq should have like 1,000,000m3. They're big, slow, and they're ORE ships.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#127 - 2013-06-26 16:16:16 UTC
Siddicus wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that.



It doesn't need to have another bay for it, just to allow it in the current one it has =( Adding the ability to fit Command Centers into the bay will increase its usefulness significantly, and in the end, isn't that the goal of these changes?


If my math is right with max expanders and t1 expander rigs Iti 3 should have around 2200 of general cargo spece, enough for 2 command centers.

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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#128 - 2013-06-26 16:16:18 UTC
The special bay ships all have a 550m3 normal cargo at the moment.

@ccp_rise
Altaen
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#129 - 2013-06-26 16:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Altaen
If an ore bay includes unrefined ore and ice blocks, does that mean a mineral bay includes refined minerals and refined ice product AKA jump/triage/siege fuel?

Nevermind, just read that it doesn't. I think this is unfortunate. For consistency if nothing else. I do think delivering jump/triage/siege fuel (not fuel blocks, mind you) is a role I would appreciate having filled somehow.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2013-06-26 16:16:55 UTC
Sofia Wolf wrote:
Siddicus wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that.



It doesn't need to have another bay for it, just to allow it in the current one it has =( Adding the ability to fit Command Centers into the bay will increase its usefulness significantly, and in the end, isn't that the goal of these changes?


If my math is right with max expanders and t1 expander rigs Iti 3 should have around 2200 of general cargo spece, enough for 2 command centers.


oh gosh this is true - I totally forgot about expanders (as I guess everyone else did), thanks!

@ccp_rise
Deirdre Anethoel
Objectif Licorne
#131 - 2013-06-26 16:17:30 UTC
Quote:
HOARDER - Ammo bay (This includes anything in the 'charge' group - bombs/cap charges/etc)

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Ammo Bay Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M(+1), 3L; 2 turrets(+1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 180 PWG(+120), 300 CPU(-350)
Cargo (capacity / Ammo/Charge Bay Capacity): 500(-4600) / 50000m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 840(+566) / 800(-216) / 2100(+1084)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .85(-.15) / 10625000(-875000) / 12.5(-3.4)
Signature radius: 185(+5)
Warp speed: 4.5au/s


May I suggest this bay should be able to contain drones too? And paste.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#132 - 2013-06-26 16:20:34 UTC
Altaen wrote:
If an ore bay includes unrefined ore and ice blocks, does that mean a mineral bay includes refined minerals and refined ice product AKA jump/triage/siege fuel?

Nevermind, just read that it doesn't. I think this is unfortunate. For consistency if nothing else. I do think delivering jump/triage/siege fuel (not fuel blocks, mind you) is a role I would appreciate having filled somehow.


he already said that the mineral bay does not include ice products

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
#133 - 2013-06-26 16:20:45 UTC
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:
Quote:
HOARDER - Ammo bay (This includes anything in the 'charge' group - bombs/cap charges/etc)

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Ammo Bay Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M(+1), 3L; 2 turrets(+1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 180 PWG(+120), 300 CPU(-350)
Cargo (capacity / Ammo/Charge Bay Capacity): 500(-4600) / 50000m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 840(+566) / 800(-216) / 2100(+1084)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .85(-.15) / 10625000(-875000) / 12.5(-3.4)
Signature radius: 185(+5)
Warp speed: 4.5au/s


May I suggest this bay should be able to contain drones too? And paste.



Paste it will hold as that is under the ammo and charges group ...

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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-06-26 16:21:04 UTC
I think the mk II tiericide is much much better Rise. Thank you very much.

Now about those transport ships.... :D
Sarmatiko
#135 - 2013-06-26 16:21:46 UTC
CCP Rise, while you working closely with T1 industrial ships, maybe you can look at most unused ship in EVE - Primae.

Currently there is practically no reason to use this ship, and after this rebalance there will be absolutely no reason to undock.

In Tyrannis, when Primae was introduced as "starter PI ship", we hadn't "Ore Industrial ship" skill, but now we have.
Maybe it will be a good idea to add more specific bays to Primae (in addition to command center bays) with bonuses dependent from Ore Industrial?
Same goes for Echelon - why not add simple T1 exploration frig stats or at least 1 High slot for probe launcher?
It's not like something bad will happen if people suddenly start using these conserved ships.. Ugh
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#136 - 2013-06-26 16:21:58 UTC
Rise,
Thanks for making another go at these ships. I'm excited about the revamp and look forward to using some of the new roles. Great job!!
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-06-26 16:22:42 UTC
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:
Quote:
HOARDER - Ammo bay (This includes anything in the 'charge' group - bombs/cap charges/etc)

Minmatar Industrial Skill Bonuses:
+5% Ammo Bay Capacity
+5% Max Velocity

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M(+1), 3L; 2 turrets(+1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 180 PWG(+120), 300 CPU(-350)
Cargo (capacity / Ammo/Charge Bay Capacity): 500(-4600) / 50000m3
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 840(+566) / 800(-216) / 2100(+1084)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .85(-.15) / 10625000(-875000) / 12.5(-3.4)
Signature radius: 185(+5)
Warp speed: 4.5au/s


May I suggest this bay should be able to contain drones too? And paste.

you could squeeze the drones and paste into the 'regular' bay.

i like the changes very much overall, especially the drones. mining iteron inc ;)

I should buy an Ishtar.
ApolloF117 HUN
The All-Seeing Eye
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#138 - 2013-06-26 16:24:59 UTC
gut, now make a t2 hoarder for transport ammo with tank not whitout it
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#139 - 2013-06-26 16:26:01 UTC
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:

May I suggest this bay should be able to contain drones too? And paste.



... reading comprehension; it holds paste and doesn't hold drones (at least in the ammo bay).
get a normal hauler for drone supply. without a carrier or other ship with fitting service, you could not refill your drone bay anyway.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#140 - 2013-06-26 16:29:12 UTC
Just a thought why not introduce the Badger mrk III into the game as the large transport as that is the model the Bustard is made on. This would give you the badger mrk II as the third ship for the Caldari. Then only the Amarr would be left out and it would make more sense IMO.

Fred