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[Odyssey] Command ships
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Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-06-26 02:52:21 UTC
Jexal Mirat wrote:
I'm kinda confuzzled as to the why the fack did they do it that way?

So I need to have all Warfare links now at V, to fly any Command Ship.

Explain to me how this makes sense;

To fly a Damnation, which is an armor bonus command ship. Why the hell do I need to have Siege Warfare at V to fly it now? This is a goddamned armor bonus ship. If I'm going to be using 3 (or more) links on it, one of them sure as snot is NOT going to be a fricking Siege Warfare link.

To fly a Vulture, which is an shield bonus command ship. Why the hell do I need to have Armor Warfare at V to fly it now? This is a goddamned shield bonus ship. If I'm going to be using 3 (or more) links on it, one of them sure as snot is NOT going to be a fricking Armor Warfare link.

Ok mayyybe you see where I'm going with this.

This "rebalancing" has just made Command Ships obsolete, as I can get a 7 link Loki or Legion, Tengu or Proteus, in less time than it takes to get to Command Ships. Plus I get better bonuses. For the T3's If I only want to fly T2 armor links, I can. But Command Ships, I have to have ALL warfare skills at V first.

So riddle me this Batman, how is this "rebalanced"?

What would make sense to me is having your racial bonus skill, Amarr-Armor, Caldari-Siege, Minnie-skirmish and Gally-Info ONLY at V. What you choose to do after you get into that, is your problem. But instead we have crappy faction battlecruisers.

That's just me, I could be wrong.

Those are the passive bonus skills, not the skills for Links. If you're going fleet command route you absolutely must have all 4 of these skills at 5 because they benefit the whole fleet even if there are no tankers for shield, for example, larger buffer is always welcomed.
Mr Doctor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-06-26 03:46:43 UTC
They also arent rebalanced yet, thats later, this is just a skill shuffle. Command ship rebalance is my number one thing I'm looking forward to, cant wait! Well T3 frigs actually... but in the foreseeable future, command ships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-06-27 12:32:09 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Those are the passive bonus skills, not the skills for Links. If you're going fleet command route you absolutely must have all 4 of these skills at 5 because they benefit the whole fleet even if there are no tankers for shield, for example, larger buffer is always welcomed.
It also ensures you have the ability to fit the links that are needed by the fleet, even if your ship does not provide a bonus to them. I think that is a reasonable flexibility to expect out of a command ship pilot.

You want to fly command with less SP invested? Fly a combat battlecruiser or a strategic cruiser.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#24 - 2013-06-27 12:37:51 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Those are the passive bonus skills, not the skills for Links. If you're going fleet command route you absolutely must have all 4 of these skills at 5 because they benefit the whole fleet even if there are no tankers for shield, for example, larger buffer is always welcomed.
It also ensures you have the ability to fit the links that are needed by the fleet, even if your ship does not provide a bonus to them. I think that is a reasonable flexibility to expect out of a command ship pilot.

You want to fly command with less SP invested? Fly a combat battlecruiser or a strategic cruiser.

Why would i need armored warfare or information warfare to 5 if i want to fly Vulture or Claymore? all 4 warfare skills to 5 as prereq to command ships is just lame time sink and doesnt make any sense.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-06-27 12:41:27 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Why would i need armored warfare or information warfare to 5 if i want to fly Vulture or Claymore? all 4 warfare skills to 5 as prereq to command ships is just lame time sink and doesnt make any sense.
Did you even read Eija-Riitta Veitonen's post? The link skills give passive bonuses to everyone beyond any link modules you are running. Not having them is a hole in your fleet boosting and you will not be allowed positions for boosting in your fleet without them unless there are a shortage of boosters.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Onomerous
Negative-Impact
Sedition.
#26 - 2013-06-27 12:45:15 UTC
Jexal Mirat wrote:
I'm kinda confuzzled as to the why the fack did they do it that way?

So I need to have all Warfare links now at V, to fly any Command Ship.

Explain to me how this makes sense;

To fly a Damnation, which is an armor bonus command ship. Why the hell do I need to have Siege Warfare at V to fly it now? This is a goddamned armor bonus ship. If I'm going to be using 3 (or more) links on it, one of them sure as snot is NOT going to be a fricking Siege Warfare link.

To fly a Vulture, which is an shield bonus command ship. Why the hell do I need to have Armor Warfare at V to fly it now? This is a goddamned shield bonus ship. If I'm going to be using 3 (or more) links on it, one of them sure as snot is NOT going to be a fricking Armor Warfare link.

Ok mayyybe you see where I'm going with this.

This "rebalancing" has just made Command Ships obsolete, as I can get a 7 link Loki or Legion, Tengu or Proteus, in less time than it takes to get to Command Ships. Plus I get better bonuses. For the T3's If I only want to fly T2 armor links, I can. But Command Ships, I have to have ALL warfare skills at V first.

So riddle me this Batman, how is this "rebalanced"?

What would make sense to me is having your racial bonus skill, Amarr-Armor, Caldari-Siege, Minnie-skirmish and Gally-Info ONLY at V. What you choose to do after you get into that, is your problem. But instead we have crappy faction battlecruisers.

That's just me, I could be wrong.


Bold for emphasis and underlined for additional emphasis.

Just because it doesn't match your ideas for rebalancing doesn't mean it isn't rebalancing.
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-06-28 00:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Why would i need armored warfare or information warfare to 5 if i want to fly Vulture or Claymore? all 4 warfare skills to 5 as prereq to command ships is just lame time sink and doesnt make any sense.
Did you even read Eija-Riitta Veitonen's post? The link skills give passive bonuses to everyone beyond any link modules you are running. Not having them is a hole in your fleet boosting and you will not be allowed positions for boosting in your fleet without them unless there are a shortage of boosters.

You guys seem to be misunderstanding Leadership skills.

There are four groups of skills in leadership tree:

  • Command group: Leadership, Wing Command and Fleet Command - allow you to distribute your (or from booster above you in fleet rank) boosts onto your fellow fleet members, squad, wing and fleet respectively.

  • Passive boost group: Armored Warfare, Information Warfare, Siege Warfare and Skirmish Warfare - these apply passive boosts to all fleet members your above skill group and fleet position allows you to, 2% Armor hp, 2% targeting range, 2% shield hp and 2% agility per skill level respectively. Up to 10% each. These are always good to have to max in fleet regardless of composition.

  • Specialist group: Armored Warfare Specialist, Information Warfare Specialist, Siege Warfare Specialist and Skirmish Warfare Specialist - now these enable you to use appropriate warfare links, and give you 100% link efficiency per level, up to 5x of the base link power.

  • Support skill group: Warfare Link Specialist - grants 10% bonus per level to every installed link's efficiency.

There are 2 more skills that fall to Passive boost and Specialist groups respectively: Mining Foreman and Mining Director. Former adds 2% mining yeld passive bonus, the latter allows operation of mining links in the same way as other specialist skills do. I left those out because they are specific to miners only.

Leadership V and 4 combat passive boost skills to 5 are highly recommended for any seasoned pilot. And those are actually now required to train commandship class, which is good. Link-specific skills are to be trained separately per each group at pilot's discretion.

edit: one of my characters usually flies a commandship in booster role. Yes, it's a Damnation, and yes, she has all 14 skills in leadership group trained to lvl 5.
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