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Simple miner buff.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#1 - 2013-06-24 23:50:14 UTC
I'd love to see the drone bay size of all ore miners increase by 3x. Shocked
(( Even higher would be nice 4-5x ))

Keep bandwidth the same.

I think having a bigger drone bay might help get more miners out of high sec.

Having room for mining,combat,logistics and EW drones would make groups of miners a bit more of a threat and would help the yields stay higher (( due to not having to ditch mining drones )).

Just imagine all the 11 man squads that would be using orca/skiff/procurer would end up in low/null sec if this change were to happen.
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#2 - 2013-06-25 00:08:10 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I'd love to see the drone bay size of all ore miners increase by 3x. Shocked
(( Even higher would be nice 4-5x ))

Keep bandwidth the same.

I think having a bigger drone bay might help get more miners out of high sec.

Having room for mining,combat,logistics and EW drones would make groups of miners a bit more of a threat and would help the yields stay higher (( due to not having to ditch mining drones )).

Just imagine all the 11 man squads that would be using orca/skiff/procurer would end up in low/null sec if this change were to happen.


LOL not many becasue that would still involve 'risk', which we all know is the one thing the vast majority of miners don't want.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#3 - 2013-06-25 00:54:16 UTC
Risk is a funny thing.

It has a tipping point.

I see a lot of threads about not enough miners in null and low.

I see this as a simple change for CCP to make and would allow fleets of miners to fight off small threats.

Both sides should be forced to commit in the fight instead of just frigs picking them off with ease.

Would also help make the isk per hour gap between low/null v.s. high increase since you'd still have the mining drone yield with strong enough drones to fight off rats.

We need more targets!
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#4 - 2013-06-25 02:20:38 UTC
Completely agree more miners out in low sec would be a great thing.

However

the rewards would have to be massively buffed to give the average miner/group the incentive to accept the risk. This is about the psychology of the miners. They just don't like risk. period. otherwise they wouldn have so many whine threads about them getting bumped/ganked whatever.

Miners are a risk averse group and being able to have a few more drone out wouldn't make them want to come into lowsec any more than they would now unfortunately.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#5 - 2013-06-25 06:27:10 UTC
Yes they are risk adverse.

But the gap between mining in a 0.9 and a 0.3 is very little.

The main reason is the drone issue.
You pack away your mining drones and lose yield so you can defend.
Getting rid of that would make a larger gap between yield per hour for the 2. (( Just from a pure PvE perspective ))

Being able to fight off frigs/destroyers/cruisers when in small groups would be cool to see.

10 skiffs/procurers that can rep each other and ecm/neut/web or combat is a much harder group to deal with than it is now.
Gives time for a few to grab combat ships that are in same system.

I think low sec mining groups would become far more common.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#6 - 2013-06-25 07:37:26 UTC
It's an interesting suggestion actually...

My primary concern would be how it scales in terms of a 30 Barge ISBoxer fleet in Huge 0.0 anom belts... but given that the bandwidth limits the effect a similar droneswarm could be achieved now...
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-06-25 08:21:28 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Yes they are risk adverse.

But the gap between mining in a 0.9 and a 0.3 is very little.

The main reason is the drone issue.
You pack away your mining drones and lose yield so you can defend.
Getting rid of that would make a larger gap between yield per hour for the 2. (( Just from a pure PvE perspective ))

Being able to fight off frigs/destroyers/cruisers when in small groups would be cool to see.

10 skiffs/procurers that can rep each other and ecm/neut/web or combat is a much harder group to deal with than it is now.
Gives time for a few to grab combat ships that are in same system.

I think low sec mining groups would become far more common.



I mist disagree. The additional yield of 5 mining drones at max skill is fairly insignificant next to the yield of a strip miner II. Additionally (I believe) the mining support skills from upgrades ship bonus etc don't apply to drone yields.

So the argument that reduced drone yield is what keeps gangs out of lowsec fields is incorrect. And even if it were, no amount of drones will keep ganks away without an equal rise in bandwidth. Drones are to easily destroyed or ignored to be a deterrent. So by your argument barges need to field sentries and maybe even sentries with a bonus.

I don't think hulks should be replacing potato fleets.
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-06-25 08:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
One does not go into low-sec for mining.

You get better ores in null-sec and WH-space for the same amount of risk and so you can just skip mining in low-sec. And with the new security tags are low-sec belts exposed to even more ratting and PvP than before Odyssey. You might want to shoot low-sec miners only to see if they have picked up any of these new tags.

Low-sec belts are the last places you want to be mining in.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#9 - 2013-06-25 19:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Froggy Storm wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Yes they are risk adverse.

But the gap between mining in a 0.9 and a 0.3 is very little.

The main reason is the drone issue.
You pack away your mining drones and lose yield so you can defend.
Getting rid of that would make a larger gap between yield per hour for the 2. (( Just from a pure PvE perspective ))

Being able to fight off frigs/destroyers/cruisers when in small groups would be cool to see.

10 skiffs/procurers that can rep each other and ecm/neut/web or combat is a much harder group to deal with than it is now.
Gives time for a few to grab combat ships that are in same system.

I think low sec mining groups would become far more common.



I mist disagree. The additional yield of 5 mining drones at max skill is fairly insignificant next to the yield of a strip miner II. Additionally (I believe) the mining support skills from upgrades ship bonus etc don't apply to drone yields.

So the argument that reduced drone yield is what keeps gangs out of lowsec fields is incorrect. And even if it were, no amount of drones will keep ganks away without an equal rise in bandwidth. Drones are to easily destroyed or ignored to be a deterrent. So by your argument barges need to field sentries and maybe even sentries with a bonus.

I don't think hulks should be replacing potato fleets.


For my skiff fit the drones make up about 26% of the yield in eft.
This number is more like 20% in game due to flight times.
So currently if the value of the ore in a 0.4 is less than 20% higher than value of ore in 0.9 I make the same isk with far less risk in the 0.9

Bigger drone bay would at least get rid of this 20% factor. Giving null sec miners a big boon and hopefully getting it closer for some people to do low sec mining corps. (( Solo is still a horrible idea either way ))

The bigger bay would help the T2's even more as they already start with more bandwidth and could carry medium combat drones and medium shield repair drones add that to medium ecm and still having a group of lights and mining drones. I don't see any single cruiser talking down even one skiff in group of miners if these type of changes were made. It would force the attackers to commit something larger to the fight which gives the miners time to get combat guys on the field.

This in turn will allow the miners to be both good yield and good bait for the rest of a low sec corp.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-25 20:47:30 UTC
I mine because I want to read books, watch movies or trol... I mean post on forums while making some money in EVE. It's not about being risk averse so much as it's about wanting to do two productive things at once without feeling obligated to make one of them the only productive thing I'm doing lest I lose all productivity in a moment of inattention. I've done my share of no/low-sec mining so while I'm a complete carebear I'm not strictly risk averse. It's more that I'm "paying attention to something that is innately boring as hell and ratcheting up my stress level all for the sake of a little more profit" averse.

It's not worth really worth it in low-sec, with or without extra drones, to mine there, especially not once you factor in the increased money I'd need to spend on antacids and aspirin every month to compensate for the stress and headaches. Walmart doesn't take veldspar after all. Roll
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#11 - 2013-06-25 20:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
You don't need every miner in Eve to move.

If only 5% moved into low sec mining corps and another 5% in to null due to bigger profit ratio's the game would be much more exciting. (( Aka room for more drones ))

If Orca had 125 bandwidth and 200m3 drone bay it would probly help make low sec mining groups even more common as well.

I'm sure low sec pirate/campers wouldn't argue being able to mine while the guys scouting and camping gates keep killing away. The miners could have combat ships in same system ready to jump into the fights. Would make low sec a lot more like null.

This will never happen as long as you have to give up your medium drone dps on the T2's just to keep ore yield as high as it is in a 0.5 and up.

Plus any boon to active mining instead of afk/bots is always a plus.

No real other option exist to help miners as if you add more highs for weapons/neuts they'd just add more strip miners.
CCP would have to have strip miner turrets like they do with guns if they made such an attempt which would require a lot more programming.

Maybe a plus 1 warp strength on the T2's ore ships would help.