Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Badger has 5 low
but the 18588m3 maximum capacity come from just 4 T2 expanders
3700(base) * 1.25 (ship bonus) * 1.15^3 (3 T1 expander rigs) * 1.275^4 (4 T2 expanders) = 18588

the maximum capacity will be 23700 if use all five low with T2 expanders

Rise, could you please double check is it a typo? or I just miss something?

Also badger mark II has more armour than shields .... intentional?

Scorpion vs ... ?

gonna put the concept of the 3 roles for industrials like this:

speed industrial: +5% cargo, agility and maximum velocity per lvl

tank industrial: +5% cargo and tank per lvl (be it shield or armor)

cargo industrial (AKA mini freighter): +10% cargo per lvl

of course this means that at racial industrial V you have one ship with 25% more cargo than the other 2, working as intended. while some ships would reach out the mark of 40k m3 they still wouldnt get close to what other industrial ships have, for example the orca, which can get almos 200k m3 fully cargoed.

now, what happens with the DST and the Blockade Runners?, the Blockade Runner would come after the speed industrial, adding the double of bonus (+10% cargo, agility and max velocity per lvl), same for the DST in relation with the tank industrial (+10% cargo and tank per lvl, armor or shield)

now, there's still a ship left, but the 3rd industrial role is intended to converge into freighters.

but we have 2 races which use only 2 industrials (Caldari and Amarr), while Gallente use 5. instead of leaving 4 ships useless, the idea is to put the art department into creating 2 aditional industrials, one for Amarr and one for Caldari, this giving it same ground as Minmatar, and use the Iteron I, III and V as the dedicated gallente industrials (maybe with Iteron II and IV as mid ground between each role)

the configuration would be then:

Amarr:

-Speed Hauler -> Sigil

-Tank Hauler -> Bestower

-Mini Freighter -> new hull required

Caldari:

-Speed Hauler -> Badger

-Tank Hauler -> Badger Mk II

-Minifreighter -> Badger Mk III (new hull required)

Minmatar:

-Speed Hauler -> Wreathe

-Tank Hauler -> Hoarder

-Mini Freighter -> Mammoth (they would still have the Mastodon as the DST of course, same bonus applied but it would need a change in its attributes in that case for leaving it in ground with what would be a T2 Hoarder)

Gallente:

-Speed Hauler -> Iteron

-midgrown between speed and tank -> Iteron II

-Tank Hauler -> Iteron III

-mid ground between tank and cargo -> Iteron IV

-Mini Freighter -> Iteron V

this looks better than what its planned right now, and doesnt leave industrial ships out of the equation... now in order to implement this i suggest that youd leave this rebalance to the winter expansion instead of shoving it for Odyssey 1.1, which is too soon BTW..

i really enjoy the model of the hoarder. infact, even though the mammoth has more cargo space, all my characters fly hoarders instead. its just the best looking industrial ship in the game period. i'd like to see the hoarder take on the role of being agile.

i think one part of eve people almost always forget is mining and distribution missions. hoarder can fill in the role of being really good for distribution missions. we already have a ship for PI. why make another?

I am late to the thread, but I would like to thank everyone involved for the switch to keep the Mammoth as the large Minmatar hauler. I have a personal attachment to it and often haul in a Mastodon even though I have better options available. The Hoarder model is good too but it is less iconic for me.

I also would like to say that I think it is reasonable to drop to 2 hauler hulls per race and repurpose the "extra" industrials for new roles at a later point. I understand wanting to avoid homogenization but there is a difference between options that add interesting complexity that options that do not. Having a lot of ways to blow things up with varying strengths and weaknesses adds depth to the game, but for hauling having 12 variations on size and agility with more midpoints does not add much over having "merely" 8 clustered around 2 extremes. People are going to gravitate to the extremes anyway, so I feel that the "hybrid" haulers are not going to see much use and would be better off being given new dedicated roles in a later iteration.

do not worry i still lub you <3

hopefully this is just step one... and like you said about fozzie saying might as well do something now even though its not the perfect solution.

but i think it would be great if the gal ones had a little more divercity.

such as:

itty mrk2 could have a small cargo bay but it cant be scanned by cargo scanners

or mrk3 could have a fleet hangar

or mrk4 could have a really large cargo bay but it only holds ice or gas...

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you know more roles

perhaps if the art departmetn in the future could create. 3 new badgers and 2 ammar/minni industrials we could have more roles then just speed/cargo.

Why not just stick with the one bay, 'freight bay'. We don't need 'x special PI bay, or fuel bay, or whatever', just a strait freight bay that is identical to the current cargo bays.

I can't believe it is such a difficult thing as you've already installed it on five different classes of ship hulls as ore holds (mining frigate, barges, exhumers, indy command and cap indy command). The groundwork already exists in other areas, it gets around the eternal balancing problem with shield vs armor lines regarding cargo expanders, it's just an all around easier fix then juggling stats and slots around endlessly.

Simple, really. You tell the Amarr miner the same thing you tell someone when they want to use lasers instead of blasters: train the skill. When did it become ok to coddle people from training a skill? Besides, we're talking about 30 minutes unmapped to train it! Thirty minutes!

If I want to train shield tanking, I train the skill. If I want to use tech 2 drones, I train the skill. Nothing is different about having an actual role for each of the race's haulers, even the 5x Iterons. But it will be unbalanced! Not really, if you're creative about how you implement them:

For example, each Iteron, or just the II through V, have a "specialized" bay, carrying, say, ~40k m3 of a specialized good. Ore, PI, assembled ships, smuggled goods, salvaged goods, ammo, etc. But the largest "generic" Iteron hold is just ~20k or so. A total of 60k for specialized goods, but only 20k for generic, carry-all.

Well, for Amarr, you give them a ~50k m3 "generic" hold. So they can carry slightly less, but it's more flexible when they do. You can do this sort of dance with each race, so there's benefits to each. As it stands now with the current proposals, it just looks like 4 of the same ships and 4 other same ships. Why even bother? The differences are so minuscule that it doesn't really make sense to have a racial variant that is more-or-less the same as the others. I'm pretty sure that's why we don't have Minmatar Retrievers and Gallente Retrievers and Amarr Retrievers, etc.

I realize that Industrials aren't as exciting as other ship lines. They don't do much of anything special. They don't have bonuses to weapon optimals, shield strength, warp speed, etc. But that doesn't mean that every pilot doesn't interact with them at some point, and some even make their careers on carrying goods around. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned something interesting that could be done: give the races some sort of flair. Their suggestion was to have Amarr get a bonus to tractor beam range, Caldari a +1 warp str, etc. Fun bits to give players a real choice of what to fly.

Because right now, there's going to be a serious lack of choice. Industrialists are going to buy the biggest, and instead of seeing long space trucks everywhere, we're just going to see golden pods flying around. Same stuff, different day. :-/