Live Events Discussion

They do do more subtle events.

But the problem with smuggling etc. How do you decide what pilot to send them to?
Someone in a cov ops smuggles Heth out.... Well, that's no fun for the rest of us who couldn't be online at that precise moment with an instalocking camp with a pre prepared war dec to catch that cov ops. So.... Heth gets away pretty much Automatically in that scenario. And it's not much of an event. Since it only involves one person. For it to be an event by it's very nature, people need to know about it and be able to respond to it. Which says a lot of that kind of subtle stuff will happen behind the curtain with NPC's doing it.

The leads would be just as easy to be give, probably easier, if the Devs did it as a behind the curtain NPC thing. Rather than giving a player a solo event. Then both sides get to chase the leads at the same time, rather than one side already having all the information.
There has been a lot of back story to this though, various speech non combat events & so forth have lead up to this point. And possibly even some of the player testimonies sent in response to the CEP enquiry also had a factor to play. I don't know what the Live Events team based all this on exactly.
And he's wanting to take a fleet to attack the Gallente again. So.... it makes sense he wouldn't just slip off into the night in this case. He's continuing down a consistent path.
Wow, I can tell I'm bored currently writing a whole lot of very little :)

A lot of events are pure conversation events. So there is a lot more than just shooting, and all the prep work some players lay in for the larger events also.

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT (Whew, never meant to write that much...)

I totally understand this is holiday season. If anything I'm patient - and think they earned it.

I think if I'd were to give feedback & explain why I think some plots lack in the subtle department:

1. There is a very clearly constructed good/evil scheme at the moment, which is too immature for EVE. E.g. the famous Admiral ex machina Visera Yanala. I searched Google. I searched EVE search. I searched my memory. I truly never heard of her before this month. She was hastily built up as a character to like, without any background. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Tibus Heth on the other hand does have a long history. And certainly not (only) as a Space Hitler as you put it so eloquently today. Though now he is depicted as just that.

e.g., this was the old news article from the time he actually conquered Caldari Prime:



Now, after the Gallente president in his wisdom had more or less stuffed all Caldari on Caldari Prime into ghettos, separating them from the Gallente population, great wonder Heth exploited that situation, in essence taking the now separated Gallente as hostages. Also notice how he only wanted Caldari Prime for the Caldari. See a difference?

So, the whole situation was more controversial than the depicted in the 2013 "remake". There were also other facets to it, if you reread the old news. On the bright side, of course, the fact that I remember that old scenario AND can get mildly enraged about what happens today is a sign that in a way the plots are stirring emotions. They should just not be cheapened.

2. There are a lot of other deus of machina style elements. That worked fine for greek drama, but is not exactly recognized as a very innovative modern plot tool. E.g.: How did the Republic fleet get into Gallente space with their dreads? How did the Gallente get their dreads, mercs, etc into space around/onto Caldari Prime without anyone noticing? Didn't they see the EVE ads? ;) We'll never now...

3. There is no moral dilemma and too much black & white. Example: Murderer is convicted by Federation. Murderer is given to and shot by Republic. No one feels with murderer. Why should anyone? Good riddance!
How about this instead:
Murderer doesn't shoot bunch of people and is obviously guilty? Murderer is instead a prominent Gallente that has a love relationship with an equally prominent Minmatar lady and shoots her in the heat of the moment when he finds out she is a) cheating on him and b) the whole relationship was a sham to begin with as she just tried to influence him and gain Federation secrets, whatever. Gallente justice decides for a mild prison term, mostly to appease. Now Minmatar have some reason to get all heated up about it. Federation does obviously not just pass him over. And the whole background is not revealed in one news post, but over time (and probably through some player-involved investigation)?

Still not a good plot, I could spin it on quite some.

4. I think there is not enough room for players to influence the plots atm. I realize there is not the manpower for solo plots at CCP and I don't ask for any, either. I also realize that the MMO environment is never a good environment for free RP.
But I think that something like Arek'Jaalan - and I don't say "revive it!" - had more lasting value than the whole Badaboom in Luminaire etc.

So, some plots on a smaller scale but with lasting results to the game world with players as the main influence OR something on a big scale, but leading to it through a real story arc would be preferable.

Now, again, I rejoined EVE RP very recently and while I have friends that were part of the plots, I could be totally wrong about many things. So just treat this massive wall of text like any other criticism: Pick what you can use and forget about the rest.

Again, I get to know a lot of new players - some very memorable - these days and I meet with many friends of old. So I have fun and you obviously do get us together the way you do it.

No they did not. Until a CCP Dev comes out and says they did... almost all the capsuleers who were present saw the ship actually getting shot down through shield, armour & structure all the way through to 0. I had it on my targets through the entire battle and I quite distinctly saw the hull get down to 0% on my overview.
Yes, the event was loaded, as it should have been given the position it was exposed in, no, they did not just push a magic dev button or self destruct a titan.

Too many of you forget that 'Influence' does not mean that you can as an individual change the entire course of the NPC Empires. Nor even as a small group. If you want to change the course of monoliths, you have to do so with a massive movement of your own, and quite frankly, the battle of Caldari Prime ended along the lines that the capsuleers present favoured, as the majority of the capsuleers present were attacking the titan, not defending it.

See Nur, I'd consider what you are hinting at there actually less of a sandbox enviroment than what we currently have.
A Sandbox enviroment implies a world that exists inside which the players can do whatever they want (Constrained by certain game mechanics limitations obviously, like we can't land on a planet because the game doesn't handle it).
If the world only exists because a player moves it, then we cease to have a sandbox, because it doesn't exist on it's own and have it's own motion also, like sand trickling down a slope or blowing in the breeze, and instead we have replaced it with a pick a path adventure.

P.S. I suggest actually reading the books properly also, as there is no entity controling most of the politicians.

As far as the novels are concerned I heard so many (bad) rumors about them (telepathic/telekinetic powers, Jedi-style mind control, etc) that I decided not to read them. So I cannot say anything about that.

Otherwise I partly agree with both of you. I certainly think there should be more player involvement and plots should start at a lower scale. (see above)

On the other hand the official history of the Empires needs some control, I guess, or EVE history would read like: "And then the mighty corporation Fluffy Bunnies under the benevolent rule of their leader Frantic991 took over the Caldari state, immediately declaring bunnies holy divine spirits and..." so on.

I'd written a long answer but somehow lost it. I'll post it if I find it somewhere cached. In short I think kind of a leads system, involving players with each other, could be helpful and take away workload from the live events team. They could watch and hop in when they players reach a point in the story. (Or totally wreck it... ;))

The answer I will give you is the same answer I give anyone who says that players should run the stories - run one without need of our involvement. You won't get the big name players, but who needs them? Just make some characters, write some leads, and have fun with the environment. Don't get me wrong, if you start writing stuff like "and then we found a portal into the space that shall not be named", we aren't then going to make that portal for you There's still plenty of places to flex your creative muscles and have a bit of fun without needing tools you don't already have access to, and without expecting what you write to become "canon", but still be a part of the larger story of the universe.