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Mining Rigs
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Xeddiphan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-01 04:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Xeddiphan
A corp-mate asked me why there are no mining rigs, and since there is a rig for just about everything else it got me thinking. there could be a few rigs to help out with mining stats, and i don't think it would take that much effort to implement them. the biggest argument i heard was that mining rigs would let solo miners get way too much without teaming up with other miners, so i figured the rigs could have the drawback of decreasing the maximum cargo space, so in order to make a super efficient mining ship you would need to have a buddy haul for you or jet can, and that is just begging for trouble.

Graviton particle stream array - 5%increase to strip miner mining yield

Pneumatic particle vapor pump - 5% decrease in strip miner cycle duration

Redundant beam regulators - 5% decrease in power grid and/or cpu need of strip miners

Multi-refraction crystal lens - 5% increase to strip miner range

the rigs would need some kind of drawback to keep with the theme of rigs as a whole

My mining corp-mates seemed to really like the idea, and one of the newer players actually looked on the market for them, so i figured the names are at least professional sounding, still i would like some community input on this from the mining community.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-01 05:58:41 UTC
Xeddiphan wrote:
A corp-mate asked me why there are no mining rigs, and since there is a rig for just about everything else it got me thinking. there could be a few rigs to help out with mining stats, and i don't think it would take that much effort to implement them. the biggest argument i heard was that mining rigs would let solo miners get way too much without teaming up with other miners, so i figured the rigs could have the drawback of decreasing the maximum cargo space, so in order to make a super efficient mining ship you would need to have a buddy haul for you or jet can, and that is just begging for trouble.

Graviton particle stream array - 5%increase to strip miner mining yield at the expense of cargo capacity.

Pneumatic particle vapor pump - 5% decrease in strip miner cycle duration at the expense of cargo capacity.

Super conductive power nodes - 5% decrease in strip miner capacitor need at the expense of cargo capacity.

My mining corp-mates seemed to really like the idea, and one of the newer players actually looked on the market for them, so i figured the names are at least professional sounding, still i would like some community input on this from the mining community.


+1 However, I dont' think you need to decrease cargo capacity.

Reason I say this is when ytou put mining laser upgrades in your low slots you're getting better yield, but you're not getting any cargo bonus.

Same with the rigs.

You're trading extra cargo space for mining upgrades.

One or the other.

Now, if you stack the same types, then maybe the stacking pentalty could be cargo capacity loss of 5% or so.

So if you fit 3 of your gravitons, then you lose 15% of yoru cargohold, 5% per rig.
However, if you fit one of each type, then you have no cargo losses.
Xeddiphan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-01 06:31:55 UTC
i used a cargo capacity drawback primarily because when you mine solo, cargo capacity is very important unless you have an alt, secure cargo container, or are very sure that you wont be can flipped, this means that in order to be really efficient at mining you would need to team up with other players. i didn't give an exact penalty because the rigging skill would reduce the drawback amount. all the rigs follow the same rules in that each one has a penalty of some kind, armor makes you slower, shield rigs make your target radius larger ect. so it makes sense to have the drawbacks apply per rig. and using low slots for mining just decreases your potential cargo hold, you will still have a balanced cargo hold, but increased mining ability. if you use the rigs, however, you will lower your cargo hold to (depending on your other fittings and stats) potentially underpowered size, this means you would need to rely on your corp mates.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-01 07:04:12 UTC
Xeddiphan wrote:
however, you will lower your cargo hold to (depending on your other fittings and stats) potentially underpowered size, this means you would need to rely on your corp mates.


The thing is you're looking at it as a balancing issue from the wrong side.

For a solo miner It would be a problem to lose cargo for mining amount.

However, when you're fleet mining cargo amount isn't an issue.

So basically you're penalizing solo miners with the rigs, but you're only giving fleet miners the bonus.

So to make it fair you'd have to allow both to have the bonus with no cargo loss.

That way, it's the same give and take compared to low slot cargo and yield items.

You have the choice of either making less trips, or mining ore faster.

it's balanced in a way that it really doesn't make a difference which one you choose to use when soloing

It only makes a difference which you choose when fleet mining.

Now, as far as your rigs types.

+ to mining yield is good
- to cycle time is good.
- to capacitor use is crap.

Get rid of the capacitor rig idea and put a reduction of cpu and powergrid usage of strip miners. That way you can fit more tank or whatever.

(I also say get rid of the capactior use fleet booster and instead make a cycle time reduction booster.)

So now you have

+ to yield
- to cycle time
- to power/cpu usage

Add some more
+ to range
Maybe a rigs that gives a crystal hold

Anything else you can think of.
Xeddiphan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-01 07:41:49 UTC
thx, i was having trouble thinking of a third rig, rigs seem to normally have 3 or so different types that effect the same area, so i was trying to make them fit in with the current setup of the existing rig system, that's why i didn't want them to have a stacking penalty as a drawback. they would need some kind of drawback that balances the rigs, maybe a penalty for the shield or armor?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-01 16:25:44 UTC
Xeddiphan wrote:
thx, i was having trouble thinking of a third rig, rigs seem to normally have 3 or so different types that effect the same area, so i was trying to make them fit in with the current setup of the existing rig system, that's why i didn't want them to have a stacking penalty as a drawback. they would need some kind of drawback that balances the rigs, maybe a penalty for the shield or armor?


I'd say a speed penalty.

They have enough problems with shield and armor already
Lord Mandelor
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#7 - 2011-11-07 05:24:11 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Xeddiphan wrote:
thx, i was having trouble thinking of a third rig, rigs seem to normally have 3 or so different types that effect the same area, so i was trying to make them fit in with the current setup of the existing rig system, that's why i didn't want them to have a stacking penalty as a drawback. they would need some kind of drawback that balances the rigs, maybe a penalty for the shield or armor?


I'd say a speed penalty.

They have enough problems with shield and armor already


(not the corp mate Xeddiphan referenced to, but thought I'd put my two cents in)

I agree that a speed penalty would do nicely. Possibly an agility penalty would work in well too, as to make it harder to warp out quickly if danger approaches.
Xeddiphan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-07 05:27:03 UTC
yea, i feel that average safety is a good sacrifice for the increase mining efficiency.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-07 09:19:52 UTC
Xeddiphan wrote:
A corp-mate asked me why there are no mining rigs, and since there is a rig for just about everything else it got me thinking. there could be a few rigs to help out with mining stats, and i don't think it would take that much effort to implement them. the biggest argument i heard was that mining rigs would let solo miners get way too much without teaming up with other miners, so i figured the rigs could have the drawback of decreasing the maximum cargo space, so in order to make a super efficient mining ship you would need to have a buddy haul for you or jet can, and that is just begging for trouble.

Graviton particle stream array - 5%increase to strip miner mining yield

Pneumatic particle vapor pump - 5% decrease in strip miner cycle duration

Redundant beam regulators - 5% decrease in power grid and/or cpu need of strip miners

Multi-refraction crystal lens - 5% increase to strip miner range

the rigs would need some kind of drawback to keep with the theme of rigs as a whole

My mining corp-mates seemed to really like the idea, and one of the newer players actually looked on the market for them, so i figured the names are at least professional sounding, still i would like some community input on this from the mining community.

Slower mining ships would probably be more accepted than lower cargohold, as you'd otherwise be unable to have all the ore you mine. And that's just gonna **** off some players. Maybe a bit slower or decreased HP would be better. A mining-ship is already doomed the moment it gets attacked, so what difference does it make if it has those 500 less HP? Exactly. It makes no difference. Maybe also add that the Pneumatic Particle Vapor Pump decreases Ice Harvester Cycle time (balancing-issues?)
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#10 - 2011-11-07 11:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: DetKhord Saisio
Do not forget ice, gas, and specific hull/crystals like the skiff/mercoxit mining. Since there is no mining upgrade for gas, a rig could prevent gas cloud spawn chance or reduce gas harvester cycle rate.

Ice rig could also reduce cycle rate. Though, not sure of an appropriate drawback (i.e. signature radius, armor amount, ship's cpu, max velocity, ship's shields, or ship's powergrid capacity) for all these new rigs. Since hulks can mine all types except gas, there should be one generic type that helps for all types of mined items. Other specific rig types could focus just on one type of mined item with higher mined amounts.

Thoughts?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-11-07 15:51:17 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
Do not forget ice, gas, and specific hull/crystals like the skiff/mercoxit mining. Since there is no mining upgrade for gas, a rig could prevent gas cloud spawn chance or reduce gas harvester cycle rate.

Ice rig could also reduce cycle rate. Though, not sure of an appropriate drawback (i.e. signature radius, armor amount, ship's cpu, max velocity, ship's shields, or ship's powergrid capacity) for all these new rigs. Since hulks can mine all types except gas, there should be one generic type that helps for all types of mined items. Other specific rig types could focus just on one type of mined item with higher mined amounts.

Thoughts?


I'll disagree with you on the generic rigs that help for all types of mining.

The reason I'm going to disagree is because if you are flying a hulk, then you already have the best ore mining capability and just slightly under a mackinaw in ice mining.

So you must choose with the hulk. Either increased ore mining to make it a little bit better than it already is, crystal storage so you don't have to organize your cargohold and/or lose that cargohold space.

Or choose to specialize it in ice where with the rigs it would mine slightly better than a mackinaw without rigs.

However a mach with rigs will still be better than a hulk with rigs.

It's just like any other ship.

You must choose what you want in the rigs and stick with it.