Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Quotan for posterity

Sorry are people really posting in here saying Amarr ships aren't capable of running missions? rofl. Bunch of terribads.

This Video from "The Djego" shows how a NApoc with a MWD that is not capstable runs a L4 Mission quite easily and fast.
Don't act like the ship isn't capable of that.

Also what the **** do you want to say with that DPS/GJ? The fact that the only skill you included in your calculation was a 50% reduction to capuse is incredibly nuts already, but then comparing those numbers and acting like it would say anything about the ship is just insane.
What's next? Comparing the DPS/GJ with other races?

"Apoc is useless because it can only produce x damage from 1 GJ while a Raven can produce infinite damage from 1GJ with weapons, nerf Raven."

I strongly recommend you to try and play around with fittings for ships a bit, you're almost as annoying to read as the guy that complains about the typhoon, that it deals more damage than the old one while having a better tank but that he has to fit it differently now.

Some people..

I know this video, in fact The Djego was who adviced me in fitting my NApoc. However, he has A LOT of capacitor mods on his ship (1x Cap recharger, 1x CPR, 1x T2 Laser-Capuse-Rig, 1x T1 Laser-Capuse-Rig). As a results, his DPS are rather abmyssal (916 DPS with Conflag are kinda bad).

And I don't talk of DPS/GJ, I talk of Damage/GJ. The DPS is just an expression of the rate of conversion from cap to damage. While higher DPS result in better cap-efficency, the effect isn't as important to be considered.

And no, comparing other weaponsystem's cap-efficency makes no sense, one would start to check how much damage-equivalent one could carry within the cargobay. This, however, is never an issue. Cap-boosted Amarr-setups do kind of the same thing, converting cargospace to cap, and then converting cap to damage. The conversion rate is kinda horrible, however, however Cap is used for more than blunt damage.

However, I suppose that the NApoc just has a too low conversion rate to make capbooster-setups really feasible, respectively a too small cargobay.

But I HATE cap rechargers.

Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).

Did you even read his post?

Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.

Each TC2 w/ optimal gives 30% optimal correct?

Without TC's, napoc w/ lvl 5 skills conflag range is 21+10km, with 2 TC2 w/optimal I'm getting 27+16km. Either way, nowhere near 40km.

You can hit but it isn't that good beyond 36km(still a very awesome range compared to the abaddon or navy geddon), however the new mobility of the navy apoc solves this problem nicely.

Actually with the extra mobility, double tracking scripts and some manual piloting you can pull off nearly the same dps as the abaddon at close range, it nearly feels like flying a massive Zealot/Legion(I like that).



The dps isn't that bad, 4. HS vs T2 ROF rig was around 25 dps as I compared the fittings in eft and with the extra range of the T2 locus I'm pretty sure the dps on the target is fairly equal overall.

As for cap efficiency of the new apoc, it is obviously worse then the old. However you can't gain the extra 37.5% tracking(without stacking) with 2 rig slots, while you can gain 45% turret cap use reduction with it. T2 damage rigging might not be the best solution for the ship, given what you give up in cap to archive the extra dps.

While I fairly well understand that flying the ships like I do is not everybody's coup of tea, since it is in many cases at the limit what your capacitor, tank and dps can do, the new navy apoc is actually a ship that improves immensely by doing so. I don't think it is bad, the 2 extra rig slots you spend on resists are heavy stacking penalized anyway and without the cap booster it is one more slot(that I tend to take away from the tank).

I'm not totally against giving the navy apoc more cap or better cap recharge, it is just hat it is a very good(to be modest) fleet pvp ship already and buffing it more seams like a bad idea.

I flown the new navy apoc nearly 20h for L4 by now, and the more I fly it the more I like it. If you utilize the extra mobility and tracking, it doesn't feel like the lazy man's choice compared to the abaddon(on max skill levels, with Implants) any more. It feels like a ship that trades some raw dps for awesome mobility, range, tracking and quite a good tank(you can negate like 50% of the missile damage in a L4 Assault vs Guristas with a AB now, you can easily range tank or exploit poor tracking of other BS at point blank). From my point of view, the apoc and navy apoc wasn't a heavy hitter before the patch, it isn't with the changes. However the ships gained a lot in different areas and if I look at mission times(16 vs 18 minutes for WC, 36 vs 34 minutes for AE, 12 vs 11 minutes for recon 1/3, 19 vs 20 minutes for vengeance, 32 vs 35 guristas Assault) the difference isn't this big compared to the abaddon(it would be a bit unfair to compare it to the tach NM/Pala) and it does a awesome job as a puls platform for L4, especially if you need some range and mobility, while the extra tracking even allows you to hit while speed tanking or approaching spawns with the mwd.

Overall the apoc and navy apoc are a lot more competitive for pve now than before the patch, and in my honest opinion a lot more fun to fly than the other bricks.

Edit:



The movie was made as a simple example what the new navy apoc can do, not much more(I don't need ego stroking). There are a few hulls and fittings that can shave off a minute under perfect conditions. I flown nearly everything for pve, and if you feel this was slow, I would welcome useful input to improve my performance.

The mission isn't hard, I just chose it since it shows how quick the new apoc can deal with lots of sub BS stuff(what it does better than the abaddon or tach BS).

Are you really that dense?

I wrote:

Yes it's in Falloff, but since the Apoc is fast and agile, you shouldn't have problems to keep enemies within your firing range, And if you do, swap crystals.

But I'm quite sure you'll claim another stupid thing next, like "the ship isn't fast because it can't goo 500m/s without a propmod" :3