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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Author
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1401 - 2013-05-31 11:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Malcanis wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I don't think you get what "tiercide" means. It means "death to tiers".


Strange that You say that, as it feels like the Tiers just have been renamed. there's an Attack Tier, now, and a Combat Tier, and some third Tier whichs name I have forgotten right now... :/

EDIT: Oh wait, it's called roles now isn't it? Tiers are so yesterday... (o_o)


Now I don't think you get what "tier" means. It implies a heirarchy.

So which is best out of Attack and Combat?

He has got a point tbh.
Combat >>>> Attack.

Unless the combat battleships where a lot slower, the advantages they have in HP/tank and fittings effectively put them in a higher tier.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1402 - 2013-05-31 11:57:14 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:

He has got a point tbh.
Combat >>>> Attack.

Unless the combat battleships where a lot slower, the advantages they have in HP/tank and fittings effectively put them in a higher tier.


On a similar note, does the superior mobility and damage of ABCs effectively make them high-tier ABS, in terms of the attack role at least?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1403 - 2013-05-31 13:49:35 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

He has got a point tbh.
Combat >>>> Attack.

Unless the combat battleships where a lot slower, the advantages they have in HP/tank and fittings effectively put them in a higher tier.


On a similar note, does the superior mobility and damage of ABCs effectively make them high-tier ABS, in terms of the attack role at least?


it makes then effectively a T2 specialist ship and an OP one at that.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#1404 - 2013-05-31 15:37:13 UTC
I suppose it's too late now but again, please give the raven more CPU.
Lee Church
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1405 - 2013-05-31 18:29:30 UTC
I really do think the navy mega should have a full rack of 8 turrets and no missile points.
8 instead of 7 makes up for how the new reugular megathron has 8 lows. This used to be what allowed the navy-thron to outdamage/active-tank it. now the navythron is barely any different.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#1406 - 2013-05-31 19:36:28 UTC
Lee Church wrote:
I really do think the navy mega should have a full rack of 8 turrets and no missile points.
8 instead of 7 makes up for how the new reugular megathron has 8 lows. This used to be what allowed the navy-thron to outdamage/active-tank it. now the navythron is barely any different.


That's been a trend that has bled in for years.

Amarr/ Gallente, Minmatar/ Caldari. Do you want a blue, green, red or Orange XMas bulb?

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1407 - 2013-06-01 15:11:58 UTC
MinutemanKirk wrote:
Samas Sarum wrote:

Welcome to all Amarr BS's (can we retire the unlimited ammo meme, no one uses T1 crystals).


So because Amarr have cap hungry guns that justifies Gallente having them also?

Gallente have enough cap problems as it is since we have to burn prop mods longer just to be able to use our preferred guns. Not being able to maintain as much cap, not to mention the ineffectiveness this would lead to that utility/neut high slot everyone keep talking about, would make the mega that much less desirable.

Until CCP start to realize that Hybrids and Lasers use cap this is a pretty pointless discussion. The ships will always be gimped with what is essentially a module and CPU penalty as they have to slap in so many Cap Rechargers.
Stjaerna Ramundson
#1408 - 2013-06-01 15:55:13 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey everyone!

We are going to try and complete the Navy ship package for Odyssey by sneaking in these battleships before release!

With the Navy Battleships we are using the same ‘tiericide’ based approach that we have used for all tech 1 rebalancing. Each race will have one ‘attack’ and one ‘combat’ Navy Battleship, allowing for different applications despite roughly equal power level. The ‘standard’ upgrade package for Navy BS is an extra slot (along with appropriate fitting adjustment) as well as approximately 50% more hitpoints. Some of these rebalanced versions will follow that pattern very closely, while others will diverge more significantly to completely new bonuses and roles.

Please read above each ship for a more detailed explanation of its design. Look forward to your feedback (which I do read almost all of, even after I stop posting in the thread =)

[...]

GALLENTE

GALLENTE

DOMINIX NAVY ISSUE
Like with the Navy Armageddon, we are going to leave the Navy Domi as a throw-back rather than switching to the new tech 1 bonus. This layout offers many unique and brutal opportunities, and fits the more niche application of a faction ship. By becoming ‘combat’ rather than ‘tier 1’ it will also gain a significant hitpoint boost.


...

And again no real Drone Navy Ship...

Would like to get a real drone focused ship.. Tech III don't have a full support for them, no Marauder have the full focus on drones and also no Navy Version have the focus of a real drone ship.

So I would like to offer this two versions of them for the LP Shop (same price, same hull for a full focused drone version and a other focused dominix:


GALLENTE

DOMINIX NAVY ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+5% Large Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)


DOMINIX NAVY DRONE ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets(-2) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 600 (+200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km(+10) / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)


So there are now 2 versions of these ships.

One have the focus on full dmg support and the other one have the full support of drone focus. Please so also consider my post for the basic (Tech 1) version in the BS balance thread. There you will get the information why for the changes on the fitting.
  1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erklärung, Lösungsansätzen formulieren.
  2. Beitrag enthält eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema.
  3. Negative Äußerungen, Drohungen usw. gegenüber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1409 - 2013-06-01 18:55:31 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
why dont the minmatar get something to murder small stuff ?
What makes you think that's not what the Fleet Typhoon will be doing?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#1410 - 2013-06-01 21:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Doed
Stjaerna Ramundson wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey everyone!

We are going to try and complete the Navy ship package for Odyssey by sneaking in these battleships before release!

With the Navy Battleships we are using the same ‘tiericide’ based approach that we have used for all tech 1 rebalancing. Each race will have one ‘attack’ and one ‘combat’ Navy Battleship, allowing for different applications despite roughly equal power level. The ‘standard’ upgrade package for Navy BS is an extra slot (along with appropriate fitting adjustment) as well as approximately 50% more hitpoints. Some of these rebalanced versions will follow that pattern very closely, while others will diverge more significantly to completely new bonuses and roles.

Please read above each ship for a more detailed explanation of its design. Look forward to your feedback (which I do read almost all of, even after I stop posting in the thread =)

[...]

GALLENTE

GALLENTE

DOMINIX NAVY ISSUE
Like with the Navy Armageddon, we are going to leave the Navy Domi as a throw-back rather than switching to the new tech 1 bonus. This layout offers many unique and brutal opportunities, and fits the more niche application of a faction ship. By becoming ‘combat’ rather than ‘tier 1’ it will also gain a significant hitpoint boost.


...

And again no real Drone Navy Ship...

Would like to get a real drone focused ship.. Tech III don't have a full support for them, no Marauder have the full focus on drones and also no Navy Version have the focus of a real drone ship.

So I would like to offer this two versions of them for the LP Shop (same price, same hull for a full focused drone version and a other focused dominix:


GALLENTE

DOMINIX NAVY ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+5% Large Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)


DOMINIX NAVY DRONE ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets(-2) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 600 (+200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km(+10) / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)


So there are now 2 versions of these ships.

One have the focus on full dmg support and the other one have the full support of drone focus. Please so also consider my post for the basic (Tech 1) version in the BS balance thread. There you will get the information why for the changes on the fitting.


Remove 2 turrets for extra dronebay??? why would you even want the drone tracking/opti bonus on the Navy Domi?? what are you going to use it for that'd make it better than the gun damage bonus?

This is probably the worst suggestion in this thread, and this thread has alot of terrible suggestions.
Stjaerna Ramundson
#1411 - 2013-06-02 10:55:44 UTC
Doed wrote:
Remove 2 turrets for extra dronebay??? why would you even want the drone tracking/opti bonus on the Navy Domi?? what are you going to use it for that'd make it better than the gun damage bonus?
This is probably the worst suggestion in this thread, and this thread has alot of terrible suggestions.


-2 Turrets because it is a ship with a full focus on drones and not with a focus on Turrets. Thats why I written two versions of it, so each one can chose his personal version if he want to get the "I don't know what I be ship" or the "I know what I be ship". So the turrets are only a low self support, like drones on other ships.

If you realy don't like this second one in the LP shop you don't have to buy it or who will force you to do i?

What do other people with ships? Fly around, ship spinning, missions, pvp, having fun? I would sell a corps of mine for the drone focused version :P
Better? Worse? That is a full part of the point of view. I don't like the permanent bonus on each damn ship for dps .. oh dps and more dps. Where is the specialisation of the ships and first of all no one of the drone ships have a real full support for the drones. (expect carrier / super carrier they are nearly same for each faction) Most people talking about the big Gallente focus for drones.. oh yes I see nothing from it. Not one ship have a real Role for drones, and this is my request for getting only one damn ship that real is a ship for drones. Giving my drones a oil can and the other one I have to repair I realy care about them.
If I would like to Mission RUNNING, also REAL mission running I would not use dominix or a Navy version of it. There are definetly higher dps monsters on the market (like the macha or nightmare). I like to make my missions unhurried. :)

You don't lose the Navy Dominix, I would like to request for a second navy version of it.

Dominix Navy Issue = Attack Ship (Hybrid dmg +5%)
Dominix Navy Drone Issue = Supporting Ship (so also lower dps = -2 turrets, to have the role)

And for the Dev's it should not be real more than a copy paste from the old version + a little correction of the stats. But making real drone lovers massiv happy. But you can still have fun with your additional +5% hybrid bonus ship. So we are both happy or not?

Hope I was able to answer to all questions on your side.


GALLENTE

DOMINIX NAVY ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+5% Large Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)


DOMINIX NAVY DRONE ISSUE

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range
20% bonus to Logistic Drone repair amount

Slot layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets(-2) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1100), 660 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9500(+1296) / 11000(+1684) / 11000(+1039)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+250) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 110(+1) / .12(-.0054) / 97100000 / 16.15s (-.72s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 600 (+200)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km(+10) / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 27 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 455(+35)

Role Idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3123743#post3123743
  1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erklärung, Lösungsansätzen formulieren.
  2. Beitrag enthält eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema.
  3. Negative Äußerungen, Drohungen usw. gegenüber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen.
Perihelion Olenard
#1412 - 2013-06-04 22:31:03 UTC
I definitely like the PG and HP increase of the navy Dominix.
Ivan St
Doomheim
#1413 - 2013-06-05 04:35:04 UTC
What have you done to the Navy issue ships?

That ship was easy to fit until now, but now it has the same cap problem as the Abaddon due to no cap consumption bonuses.
Now the only proper Amarr battleship for L4 missions (for people with not so many skills) is the Nightmare :(
(Because it only has 4 turrets--> half cap usage)

Up to now, most navy issue ships were superior versions of their T1 counterparts
And that also made sense, since the Navy of the race needs a better ship than the "normal people" get

BUT:
Now they are just T1 ships with different bonuses and a little bit better slot layout
Well, they ARE better than the T1 counterparts, but (especially the Navy Apoc) aren't worth that much ISK anymore--> Price in LP shop needs to be reduced by about 30%


Don't start hating me, I usually fly a shield Tengu in highsec, but that's my opinion on what you did to the Navy apoc
In other words:
Exchange easy PVE usability against good design
The navy apoc was VERY easy to fit until now (the variants of the Dominix too) because of its cap bonuses, but now it is nothing short of an Abaddon with rapid fire and tracking bonuses
Sure, that is VERY helpful in PVP, but the ship is kinda too expensive for PVP if you ask me^^
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1414 - 2013-06-05 09:12:54 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I don't think you get what "tiercide" means. It means "death to tiers".


Strange that You say that, as it feels like the Tiers just have been renamed. there's an Attack Tier, now, and a Combat Tier, and some third Tier whichs name I have forgotten right now... :/

EDIT: Oh wait, it's called roles now isn't it? Tiers are so yesterday... (o_o)


Now I don't think you get what "tier" means. It implies a heirarchy.

So which is best out of Attack and Combat?

He has got a point tbh.
Combat >>>> Attack.

Unless the combat battleships where a lot slower, the advantages they have in HP/tank and fittings effectively put them in a higher tier.


So the Fleet Phoon is <<<< the fleet pest?

BTW the new CNR is MUCH better for pvE han it used to be. I mean a lot.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1415 - 2013-06-05 13:17:00 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I don't think you get what "tiercide" means. It means "death to tiers".


Strange that You say that, as it feels like the Tiers just have been renamed. there's an Attack Tier, now, and a Combat Tier, and some third Tier whichs name I have forgotten right now... :/

EDIT: Oh wait, it's called roles now isn't it? Tiers are so yesterday... (o_o)


Now I don't think you get what "tier" means. It implies a heirarchy.

So which is best out of Attack and Combat?

He has got a point tbh.
Combat >>>> Attack.

Unless the combat battleships where a lot slower, the advantages they have in HP/tank and fittings effectively put them in a higher tier.


So the Fleet Phoon is <<<< the fleet pest?

BTW the new CNR is MUCH better for pvE han it used to be. I mean a lot.


Can there be one exception and his general statement still hold?

Also, can you elaborate on why you think the new CNR is a lot better in PvE?
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1416 - 2013-06-05 13:37:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


So the Fleet Phoon is <<<< the fleet pest?



/facepalm Malcanis is going full ****** again, call the police.
Luc Chastot
#1417 - 2013-06-05 16:15:02 UTC
Navy Mega could use a slightly better cap recharge.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1418 - 2013-06-05 18:51:11 UTC
Samas Sarum wrote:


Also, can you elaborate on why you think the new CNR is a lot better in PvE?


It kills rats faster and tanks better, I mean I don't know what you look for in a PvE ship?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1419 - 2013-06-05 18:53:59 UTC
nvm

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Guyshen Takeru
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1420 - 2013-06-05 19:07:36 UTC
Look I don't understand why CCP thinks they're doing the eve online community any favors by nerfing the F**k Out of our Navy Issue Battleships, Honestly If You Guys keep screwing up Eve For the rest of us I may as well quit.