Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi, I too want 100% safety in what are supposed to be the most dangerous systems in the game.

Finally, a glimmer of hope.

Yes. It is local. You are not undocking, not because they are cloaked. You are not undocking because they are showing up in local. I be you dock up when they show in local too.

That they are in a cloaked ship is really irrelevant. You'd dock up if I showed up in 0.0 local with you (assuming we weren't blue) whether I was in a talos, a nemesis, or zealot. As soon as you saw my mug in local you'd scurry off to station, a POS, or even a safe (where you might activate your own cloak) or log off (maybe while still in warp so I'd have little time to scan you down).

Note: I'm not saying this is bad, what I'm saying is it isn't the cloak making you do these things, it is you and the fact that you can see me come into system via local.



Interesting...are you talking about cloaks, or nerfing cloaks?



No matter how you slice it, it is a buff to local and the intel it provides. As such it is a buff to PvE in local as well. It isn't an issue of does it make PvE in null 100% safe, it is an issue of does it make it too safe.

PvE in null is already rather safe if you know what you are doing and pay attention. Try to make the case it should be even safer, then you might have a reasonable basis for your position.

This is still being talked about? Maybe nullseccers should shoot eachother more. Then the AFK cloakers would be better suited shooting actual targets as opposed to innocent farm peasants.

Try as I might, I have not found a way to project force while cloaked, let alone cloaked and AFK. All I am doing is using an in game mechanic to make you defeat yourself....

And it isn't carebear vs. PvPer. Every PvPer out there carebears when necessary...so they can have ships to PvP in. You are trying to draw a clear distinction where none exists.



You have nobody to blame but yourself for this. If you can't change your behavior to adapt to a different situation then that is not my problem or anyone else's. I have given you several suggestions on how to deal with this problem. Granted not having the cloaker in system is optimal, but as you say, Eve is harsh...so you should learn how to deal with sub-optimal situations...especially after 10 years (off and on).

if the reward was zero people would not do it . so obviously there is a reward and there is obviously an effect.

you just argued my point ..

there is a reward - the frustration and negative impact (away from a base of 100% safe) to the players in the local they are afk in.

the cost to the afk person .. is almost zero, they need the ship and the skills and the trip to the location .. but once in place there is no additional cost aside from the minute max it takes to log in and engage the cloak before going afk.

the risk zero - barring some catastrophic game failure right when the pilot logs in leaving them in space without their cloak on .. allowing them to be scanned and destroyed .. but that would be petitionable.

the effect is variable, but real none the less

And yet you just argued the existence that a cost is present, in at least equal degree to the perception of an uncertain reward.

The cost is always certain, and unavoidable if the tactic is used.

They must pay CCP for the account. (whether they do so in local currency or another does and sells them PLEX means nothing, CCP is getting paid every time)
They must set up a computer, an internet connection, and have a client up to date.
They must use these described elements, and connect to the server.
They must navigate a character skilled enough to operate undetected. Not necessarily cloaked, although that is a popular expectation. This character must arrive in the target system.
They must maintain the connection and character's online presence.
Actually being present at the client system, here is a funny part.

They WANT other players to believe they are AFK, and not present to observe them in the event they expose themselves to possible interaction.
The opposing players, (competition dictates this being their description), are concerned that the undetected player is in fact NOT AFK, otherwise the expectation of possible harm would defy logic.

They are physically incapable of disrupting logistics and pve activities. As for them gaining "free" disruption of local, well thats balanced by the free intel local gives you. You get free info regarding how many pilots are in system and who they are, they get the chance - and its only a chance, mind you - to make you not trust that list. Why should YOU get free, easy, benefits for no trade off?

Also can we drop the "AFK" part because it is irrelevant, AFK players are meaningless entities. What you REALLY mean by AFK is "potential threat". You only say AFK because saying "CCP get rid of AFK cloakies" isn't as obviously stupid as "CCP get rid of potential threats"

no its is the afk guys .. sorry i dont fit into your arguement

i like active cloakies .. you can do stuff with them .. you know they are active so you know you have to do something about them

the afk guys on the other hand i have to treat them like they are active when they probably are not .. so i have to add ships to different roles, post more guards, change loadouts - unlike normal threats - where detection and early warning come into play.

when my corp is mining - i often am down the pipe - watching local for imb threats .. if a hostile moves to our loc - we can adjust ahead of time, move to pvp ships and get ready for a fight .

but the hostiles dont want a fight - all they want is a gank .. and will protect the game mechanics that protect their ability to kill miners and pve ships so they can boos their kilkboard and feel good about themselves by ruining someones day. Eve would be alot less fun without people trying to ruin your day, but that doesnt mean we need to always make it easy.

now grav sites dont need to be scanned .. chalk one point up for the pvpVpve crowd. Probably hear some miners grumble about it, but for the most part . just means adapting a little .. intel becomes more important - as well as contingencies.

But this is different to dealing with an AFK cloaky. who can cause a huge impact with no cost the player or pilot with no risk incurred. All we want is a recorse to the afk cloaker .. so we have a sense that if we desire we have a way to counter them, other that to just pretend its an active threat in local.

as i have stated before i like risk .. it makes the game exciting ..

10 years ago i started down the "i hate pirates - they ruin the game" track .. before realising that dealing with m00 and other such corps was probably the most fun thing to do in eve. without pirates the game would be boring-ish or boring-er. As i have stated before when i log in I hope there is an active hostile in local or in the area .. sure i cant go mine, or rat, or do PI, or go run around and buy / sell stuff - but i can have fun. I can chose to do anything i want with a reasonable understanding of the left and right of arc of the potential outcomes of any activity i engage in.

this is not the case with the afk cloaky

if i wanted to live and work in an area of eve where there was no potential risk, i would live in emp in a quiet corp and go about my business.

if i wanted to like and work in an area where there was great reward to be had, at the expense of never know what the risk was i would move into WH space and keep pvp ships and probes out at all times.

i chose to live and work somewhere in between .. where its not safe, but i at least have a clue as to what might be coming for me.

I really can not see what is dependable about the afk cloaker.

I see a lot of attacking of the alternative position, but i do not see a lot of defence of the afk cloaker.

Why is it such an important tool for pvp'ers ?

Why would your game suffer if it was removed as a tool ?

Why would the game as a whole suffer for its loss ?