These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#941 - 2011-11-06 03:16:26 UTC
Hot Tubes wrote:
This will be written with bullet points as there's several things to cover. And this is assuming you don't go down the path of making Minnie the optimal race (zero falloff) and gallente the falloff race, which is a good theory, as if minnie are fast enough to control range then make them ******* use it to constantly keep optimal or they lose all dps. And if gallente are slow as **** surely they need to be able to hit at a variety of ranges (with reduction in dps) more than ******* minnie. Anyway....

[...]


Hybrid/gallente buff

# Increase base top speed of gallente ships to be the highest of all. They should, with prop module, be able to scream in a straight line towards something and catch it. Keep agility as it is now. With good piloting they can still be avoided by minnie ships. Like in a bull fight, you don't run in a straight line away from the ******* bull, you run perpendicular to it as it can't turn as fast.

# Reduce the speed reduction incurred by using trimarks and armour plates.

# Reduce the capacitor requirement of firing hybrids. Reduce reload time to 5 seconds (to facilitate using Null on approach then when/if you snag someone a change to a close range ammo doesn't **** you over).

# For small blasters, increase base optimal range. It's slightly nuts to have an optimal of 500m roughly when you're piloting an interceptor which will refuse to orbit any closer than 1000m+ unless you practically stop the damn ship.

# Tracking boost to all blasters. Ballpark figure of 20%

# 5-10% dps boost, probably erring towards 5% due to the freak of nature known as the Vindicator.


THIS! This this AND THIS!

Shortened quote slightly just to not clutter the thread too much (has been quoted often enough already), I pretty much agree with everything he said!
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#942 - 2011-11-06 07:12:26 UTC
I would like to see the following change to all hybrid ammo:

  • Reduce all hybrid ammo mass by 50% (this most likely will require the m3 capacity of hybrid turrets to be reduced)
  • Reduce reload and ammo change down to 1 second.
  • Increase base damage by 15% rounded up.
  • Change hybrid ammo damage ratio, optimal range and capacitor need to the following which also include the +15% damage increase already factored in:

    • Antimatter 44 Kin 11 Thr -45% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Plutonium 36 Kin 15 Thr -30% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Uranium 28 Kin 18 Thr -15% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Thorium 21 Kin 21 Thr +00% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Lead 17 Kin 22 Thr +15% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Iridium 10 Kin 23 Thr +30% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Tungsten 6 Kin 22 Thr +45% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need
    Iron 2 Kin 21 Thr +60% Optimal Range and Capacitor Need

The ammo mass decrease is to mainly allow more room for cap boosters, which a vast majority of Gallente ships need in combat. The reload time is so as combat situations and tactics change, the ammo can match it's pace and also to give a slight boost in DPS during longer fights. Also a general overall boost in base damage to make committing to a fight with blasters by getting in scramble, web and neut range worth it. Because hybrids will be able to swap ammo fast like Amarr and it has a steady slope in damage, it functions like a shot gun. You can apply steady dps between the optimal of antimatter and iron; the closer you get, the more pellets tear into you. Yes I know this is a slight comparison rip off to someone elses idea about shotgun hybrids, but the word fits well here too.

The change in capacitor reflects what the ship will be needed for tanking and tackling. Yes there will be a bit more room to fit some more cap boosters, but this will also lend well to ships that do not have the luxury of such fitting room. The idea is simple really. The closer you are the more likely you are also using capacitor for tackle and possibly an active tank. Thus closer range ammo frees up a bit more capacitor to be used for such. The further out, up to long range fights, you will most likely not burning up capacitor for tackling and a personal repairer, so there is no need to free up as much. The close range ammo also does a substantial amount more damage, but is mostly kinetic, which is a higher shield resistant on Gallente's natural enemy, Caldari. So it balances out a bit. Now if they are sitting at range, your longer range ammo does mostly thermal damage, Caldari shields much weaker resistant when comparing only thermal vs kinetic. This also applies to Minmitar ships who like to keep range. So less base damage, but better damage type.

Overall it is little boosts here and there for the ammo and how it is used. There of course may need to be more changes to Gallente hulls and maybe even other race ships hulls and such. So in no way am I advocating these numbers is EXACTLY where they should be and nothing else is touched. I am interested in how the blaster tracking boost is working out, but sadly I have not had a chance to do extensive test.

So players and CCP, thoughts?
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#943 - 2011-11-06 08:21:23 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Oh i see you found the most useable minnie ship and want to compare a bad design brutix which have 62k EHP before winter gallente buff.


You mean 62K EHP with no weapon fitted right? -you can't fit 1600RT and fit a full rack of weapons+mwd web scram, at best you can fit some lower tiers weapon with the shortest dmg and range...

Super ubber rep bonus very usefull on top, what a nice ship it is indeed.



Right, maybe you need to learn fitting and using pg implant. this "without weapon racks" fitt have mwd,web,scram,cap booster too, crap electron blaster with 813 dps (overheat+drones) and 1600 plate.
Oh wait 813 dps not enough for you, but after patch u can using ion guns over electrons.
I think this damage not bad with smaller guns.

Second one, another fail.

Tempest have 820 dps with overheat and standard fitt, megathron have 1124 without overheat.
So, what will be win in short range fight ?
A mega melting easily a tempest in a short range fight.

3rd
Share brightness ? Try to read what i wrote. Scram range/lvl bonus for the gallente ships.
Thats better idea than a "I win" speed button just nerf something else because someone like crying.

"You know what's the problem of fitting the shortest range weapon system? -no you don't."

Do you know what i'm thinking ? You are a prophetess who know my knowledge.
But vaga fitted with webs is so rare like a nano deimos. But do you know, how can beat a webabond. :D



Not to burst your bubble but most blaster ships do just fine right now IF they land on top of there targets. But that is a small % of fights. Were talking about the other 70-80% of the time your sol and your gona die if you try to close on something from range.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Shmekla
I Have a Plan
#944 - 2011-11-06 08:21:56 UTC
Hot Tubes wrote:

# Increase base top speed of gallente ships to be the highest of all. They should, with prop module, be able to scream in a straight line towards something and catch it. Keep agility as it is now. With good piloting they can still be avoided by minnie ships. Like in a bull fight, you don't run in a straight line away from the ******* bull, you run perpendicular to it as it can't turn as fast.
.


You sir showed very good analogy:) and what happens to bull in bullfighting?
Bull DIES. And why ? Because he can not reach further than his nose and is outmaneuvered.
The same with blaster boats: short optimal and pour agility - deadly combination.

I do not want to intervene with other races territory like speed or range.
But let it be that blaster boat fully controls close range up to ~20km. That they had superior tracking and movement ability in this area.
In this case minmatar would know that he has only 3-4 km of safe zone: if closer he can not escape in time, if further he will lose point.

Now it is easy mode for everybody except blaster boats.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#945 - 2011-11-06 08:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
For sure this guy dont want galente change.. ... Talking with him is like hitting head in wall ...


Realy i dont want gallente change. What i wrote ?

"Need change, i want flight with most gallentean ship not just with arazu,thanatos but brutix,eos,deimos etc too ,but fastest gallentean ships in game is a fail."

I want, but i dont want stupid idea like yours.



If you want fight you got only two options realy.

1.) Blaster Boats get fastest speed

or

2.) Blasters get much more fall off.

Every thing alse is just pissing in the wind babyBear

If you dont want to realy help blaster ships become better then just swing the Nerf Hammer on Projectials.Pirate


Edit: Other options is to hardwire Ship bounses to blaster boats like 20% web range per level and stuff like this. But hell after test server I dont think they want to do that ether.

But no matter what you do to make blaster ships work you have to fix the range problem.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Dunmur
Tempered Logic
#946 - 2011-11-06 08:32:43 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
For sure this guy dont want galente change.. ... Talking with him is like hitting head in wall ...


Realy i dont want gallente change. What i wrote ?

"Need change, i want flight with most gallentean ship not just with arazu,thanatos but brutix,eos,deimos etc too ,but fastest gallentean ships in game is a fail."

I want, but i dont want stupid idea like yours.



If you want fight you got only two options realy.

1.) Blaster Boats get fastest speed

or

2.) Blasters get much more fall off.

Every thing alse is just pissing in the wind babyBear

If you dont want to realy help blaster ships become better then just swing the Nerf Hammer on Projectials.Pirate


Edit: Other options is to hardwire Ship bounses to blaster boats like 20% web range per level and stuff like this. But hell after test server I dont think they want to do that ether.


couldnt agree more
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#947 - 2011-11-06 08:38:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Dunmur wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
For sure this guy dont want galente change.. ... Talking with him is like hitting head in wall ...


Realy i dont want gallente change. What i wrote ?

"Need change, i want flight with most gallentean ship not just with arazu,thanatos but brutix,eos,deimos etc too ,but fastest gallentean ships in game is a fail."

I want, but i dont want stupid idea like yours.



If you want fight you got only two options realy.

1.) Blaster Boats get fastest speed

or

2.) Blasters get much more fall off.

Every thing alse is just pissing in the wind babyBear

If you dont want to realy help blaster ships become better then just swing the Nerf Hammer on Projectials.Pirate


Edit: Other options is to hardwire Ship bounses to blaster boats like 20% web range per level and stuff like this. But hell after test server I dont think they want to do that ether.


couldnt agree more



Ya and alot of them are pissing and crying about the amount of dps a Mega can do if you land it on top of a ship. Hell ever look at a torp/autocannon Typhoon and that way out speeds the Mega and is normaly cheaper too with better range to boot.

Typhoon is the cheapest hardest hiting Tech 1 BS in game but can we get some love for blaster ships that are suppost to at least be the hardest hiting ?

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Dunmur
Tempered Logic
#948 - 2011-11-06 08:41:20 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Dunmur wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
For sure this guy dont want galente change.. ... Talking with him is like hitting head in wall ...


Realy i dont want gallente change. What i wrote ?

"Need change, i want flight with most gallentean ship not just with arazu,thanatos but brutix,eos,deimos etc too ,but fastest gallentean ships in game is a fail."

I want, but i dont want stupid idea like yours.



If you want fight you got only two options realy.

1.) Blaster Boats get fastest speed

or

2.) Blasters get much more fall off.

Every thing alse is just pissing in the wind babyBear

If you dont want to realy help blaster ships become better then just swing the Nerf Hammer on Projectials.Pirate


Edit: Other options is to hardwire Ship bounses to blaster boats like 20% web range per level and stuff like this. But hell after test server I dont think they want to do that ether.


couldnt agree more



Ya and alot of them are pissing and crying about the amount of dps a Mega can do if you land it on top of a ship. Hell ever look at a torp/autocannon Typhoon and that way out speeds the Mega and is normaly cheaper too with better range to boot.

Typhoon is the cheapest hardest hiting Tech 1 BS in game but can we get some love for blaster ships that are suppost to at least be the hardest hiting ?


I think alot of it is quite a few minmatar pilots not wanting to lose the huge advantage they currently have .
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#949 - 2011-11-06 09:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Dunmur wrote:
I think alot of it is quite a few minmatar pilots not wanting to lose the huge advantage they currently have .


Realy? Many pilots want to blaster to i win button.
Just see their ideas +20-30% damage with new tracking,with new pg balance wich has enable better guns, with fastest gallentean ships, with + drones and drone damages simultaneously. LOL
They do not take into consideration what is the reality. + Drones ? CCP wont create more lag, when they want to decreasing the drone numbers in game.
Armor rig penalty removing ? When CCP decreased the speeds because their game engine cant handling fast speeds.
Realy nice ideas, but this players using their brains ? When CCP remove rig penalties all ship will be faster, faster ships will be more faster than slower ships. This armor rig idea help for gallentean ship when a faster ships with trimark rigs will be more agile and faster than blaster ships ? Smart idea.

Others want fastest ship with frightening damage in game while they want other ships nerfing. LOL

Crying about minmatars, but i dont know they why didn't cry when speednerf came and no one flew with matarian ships when everyone flew with amarrs ? All right nerf matar and no one will flight with them again, because amarrian ship will be killing them in short range and from afar. Plus idea give beside the nerf to gallentean the fastest ships. All right check it out what will happen, when minnies can't fight against amarrian and they can't fight against gallentean, because they will be slower they lost their ability the hit and run tactics, but in short range fight a megathron damage over + 30% than a tempest. But we may compare it the deimost against vagabond too. What is the matar advantages against other races ? Their speeds and which ship has faloff BONUSES because they should fight from afar. But when they lost their speed and range advantages, they will be crap to using them.
This fastest ship idea put another race to the hell again. You just create an another problem.

No way. Finaly when the amarrian and matar ships fine, you just want to nerf matar, because you want powerfull, better race than over all (I win button) and create ships of race to the unuseable again.

That's why i said, cleverer changes are needed. Better web range or scrambler ranges for gallentean ships a little range bonus for guns. Better scram or web ranges help to them catch a faster ship. They would be using their mwd when enemies can't. Thats help for blaster ships move to short range.Decelarating enemies from farther range while blaster ship can using his MWD. That's enough advantages to help decreasing their range against faster ships and moving to blaster range what melting the enemy ship fast.
Plus a little fire range buff should be help against farther ships which want to fight over scam range and trying to dictate the distance. Or other acceptable buff, but dont put other race again where are the gallentean race now.
A didn't tell it, not need hybrid and gallentean ship changes, that's must, because gallentean race almost unuseable. But need wiser choices than stupid ideas. if this idea would come true, the gallentean and amarrian would be overpowered and minnie race would be crap again. So you would create a similar situation as now.
Which better 3 playable race ? Or same situation as now, with two playable and one unuseable race ?
Just thinking about it.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#950 - 2011-11-06 10:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Dunmur wrote:
I think alot of it is quite a few minmatar pilots not wanting to lose the huge advantage they currently have .


Realy? Many pilots want to blaster to i win button.
Just see their ideas +20-30% damage with new tracking,with new pg balance wich has enable better guns, with fastest gallentean ships, with + drones and drone damages simultaneously. LOL
They do not take into consideration what is the reality. + Drones ? CCP wont create more lag, when they want to decreasing the drone numbers in game.
Armor rig penalty removing ? When CCP decreased the speeds because their game engine cant handling fast speeds.
Realy nice ideas, but this players using their brains ? When CCP remove rig penalties all ship will be faster, faster ships will be more faster than slower ships. This armor rig idea help for gallentean ship when a faster ships with trimark rigs will be more agile and faster than blaster ships ? Smart idea.

Others want fastest ship with frightening damage in game while they want other ships nerfing. LOL

Crying about minmatars, but i dont know they why didn't cry when speednerf came and no one flew with matarian ships when everyone flew with amarrs ? All right nerf matar and no one will flight with them again, because amarrian ship will be killing them in short range and from afar. Plus idea give beside the nerf to gallentean the fastest ships. All right check it out what will happen, when minnies can't fight against amarrian and they can't fight against gallentean, because they will be slower they lost their ability the hit and run tactics, but in short range fight a megathron damage over + 30% than a tempest. But we may compare it the deimost against vagabond too. What is the matar advantages against other races ? Their speeds and which ship has faloff BONUSES because they should fight from afar. But when they lost their speed and range advantages, they will be crap to using them.
This fastest ship idea idea put another race to hell again. You just create an another problem.

No way. Finaly when the amarrian and matar ships fine, you just want to nerf matar, because you want powerfull, better race than over all (I win button) and create ships of race to the unuseable again.

That's why i said, cleverer changes are needed. Better web range or scrambler ranges for gallentean ships a little range bonus for guns. Better scram or web ranges help to them catch from faster ship. They would be using their mwd when enemies can't. Thats help for blaster ships move to short range.Decelarating enemies from farther range while blaster ship can using his MWD. That's enough advantages to help decreasing their range against faster ships and moving to blaster range what melting the enemy ship fast.
Plus a little fire range buff should be help against farther ships which want to fight over scam range and trying to dictate the distance. Or other acceptable buff, but dont put other race again where are the gallentean race now.
A didn't tell it, not need hybrid and gallentean ship changes, that's must, because gallentean race almost unuseable. But need wiser choices than stupid ideas. if this idea would come true, the gallentean and amarrian would be overpowered and minnie race would be crap again. So you would create a similar situation as now.
Which better 3 playable race ? Or same situation as now, with two playable and one unuseable race ?
Just thinking about it.



We asked for them but they dont what to hardwire EW bounses to every blaster ship to make them work. I think thats why there not doing it.

So that dont leave much left now do's it?

And in all fairness I would real dislike seeing every fail/rail caldire ship get hardwired with Jamming bounses. See why thats not fair now.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Shmekla
I Have a Plan
#951 - 2011-11-06 10:06:56 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
...

Agreed, other solution than agility could be longer veb , scram ranges.
Let give blaster boats bonuses for web and scram range. Like fully bonused and overheated scram/veb could reach up to 20km . Also small tuning to tracking, range and dmg.
The point is to control close range, not needed huge buffs for speed, or optimal.
Dunmur
Tempered Logic
#952 - 2011-11-06 10:12:14 UTC
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
Dunmur wrote:
I think alot of it is quite a few minmatar pilots not wanting to lose the huge advantage they currently have .


Realy? Many pilots want to blaster to i win button.
Just see their ideas +20-30% damage with new tracking,with new pg balance wich has enable better guns, with fastest gallentean ships, with + drones and drone damages simultaneously. LOL
They do not take into consideration what is the reality. + Drones ? CCP wont create more lag, when they want to decreasing the drone numbers in game.
Armor rig penalty removing ? When CCP decreased the speeds because their game engine cant handling fast speeds.
Realy nice ideas, but this players using their brains ? When CCP remove rig penalties all ship will be faster, faster ships will be more faster than slower ships. This armor rig idea help for gallentean ship when a faster ships with trimark rigs will be more agile and faster than blaster ships ? Smart idea.

Others want fastest ship with frightening damage in game while they want other ships nerfing. LOL

Crying about minmatars, but i dont know they why didn't cry when speednerf came and no one flew with matarian ships when everyone flew with amarrs ? All right nerf matar and no one will flight with them again, because amarrian ship will be killing them in short range and from afar. Plus idea give beside the nerf to gallentean the fastest ships. All right check it out what will happen, when minnies can't fight against amarrian and they can't fight against gallentean, because they will be slower they lost their ability the hit and run tactics, but in short range fight a megathron damage over + 30% than a tempest. But we may compare it the deimost against vagabond too. What is the matar advantages against other races ? Their speeds and which ship has faloff BONUSES because they should fight from afar. But when they lost their speed and range advantages, they will be crap to using them.
This fastest ship idea put another race to the hell again. You just create an another problem.

No way. Finaly when the amarrian and matar ships fine, you just want to nerf matar, because you want powerfull, better race than over all (I win button) and create ships of race to the unuseable again.

That's why i said, cleverer changes are needed. Better web range or scrambler ranges for gallentean ships a little range bonus for guns. Better scram or web ranges help to them catch from faster ship. They would be using their mwd when enemies can't. Thats help for blaster ships move to short range.Decelarating enemies from farther range while blaster ship can using his MWD. That's enough advantages to help decreasing their range against faster ships and moving to blaster range what melting the enemy ship fast.
Plus a little fire range buff should be help against farther ships which want to fight over scam range and trying to dictate the distance. Or other acceptable buff, but dont put other race again where are the gallentean race now.
A didn't tell it, not need hybrid and gallentean ship changes, that's must, because gallentean race almost unuseable. But need wiser choices than stupid ideas. if this idea would come true, the gallentean and amarrian would be overpowered and minnie race would be crap again. So you would create a similar situation as now.
Which better 3 playable race ? Or same situation as now, with two playable and one unuseable race ?
Just thinking about it.


and once again im going to repeat myself the buff MUST be to the gun itself otherwise autos will still rule even on gallente ships.

So im going to ask you how would you buff BLASTERS?
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#953 - 2011-11-06 10:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Shmekla wrote:
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
...

Agreed, other solution than agility could be longer veb , scram ranges.
Let give blaster boats bonuses for web and scram range. Like fully bonused and overheated scram/veb could reach up to 20km . Also small tuning to tracking, range and dmg.
The point is to control close range, not needed huge buffs for speed, or optimal.



No no no what your two are talking about is hardwireing EW bounses to every blastship to make them work.

So next do we hardwire Jamming to make fail/rail Caldire ship useable?

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#954 - 2011-11-06 10:38:44 UTC
Now I know alot of people hate this ideal but realy it looks to be the best fix for blasters that dont bring down the nerf hammer on any other race or make gallente boats op.

And that fix is simply to inc the falloff of blasters to match the range of auto's and pulses.

What you get is everyone hiting everyone alse and everyone geting a even shoot.

Auto Cannons will still be capless and be able to pick dmg type.

Blasters will still suck down cap and only do Kin/Therm.

Pulses will still be good becouse there always fighting in there optimal with fast ammo changes for range and there dmg is good and backed up with better def's then blasterboats.

I know it's kind of plain but it works with out braking things.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Dunmur
Tempered Logic
#955 - 2011-11-06 10:48:04 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Now I know alot of people hate this ideal but realy it looks to be the best fix for blasters that dont bring down the nerf hammer on any other race or make gallente boats op.

And that fix is simply to inc the falloff of blasters to match the range of auto's and pulses.

What you get is everyone hiting everyone alse and everyone geting a even shoot.

Auto Cannons will still be capless and be able to pick dmg type.

Blasters will still suck down cap and only do Kin/Therm.

Pulses will still be good becouse there always fighting in there optimal with fast ammo changes for range and there dmg is good and backed up with better def's then blasterboats.

I know it's kind of plain but it works with out braking things.



THIS is starting to sound like the only true solution.
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#956 - 2011-11-06 11:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Dunmur wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Now I know alot of people hate this ideal but realy it looks to be the best fix for blasters that dont bring down the nerf hammer on any other race or make gallente boats op.

And that fix is simply to inc the falloff of blasters to match the range of auto's and pulses.

What you get is everyone hiting everyone alse and everyone geting a even shoot.

Auto Cannons will still be capless and be able to pick dmg type.

Blasters will still suck down cap and only do Kin/Therm.

Pulses will still be good becouse there always fighting in there optimal with fast ammo changes for range and there dmg is good and backed up with better def's then blasterboats.

I know it's kind of plain but it works with out braking things.



THIS is starting to sound like the only true solution.



Well there are other solutions but there op solutions.

1.) Hardwire EW to all blaster boats OP
2.) Swap speed and agl of Gallente and Winmatar ships. The servers mite just go up in flames from this as its both a buff and nerf together so OP
3.) Inc blaster falloff to match auto's and pulses. Bland but not OP

Edit: I would put 4.) Inc blaster dmg. But that only buffs station games and gatecamping and the things blasters are already good for.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#957 - 2011-11-06 11:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Rip Minner wrote:
Not to burst your bubble but most blaster ships do just fine right now IF they land on top of there targets. But that is a small % of fights. Were talking about the other 70-80% of the time your sol and your gona die if you try to close on something from range.


I like your "IF", because it's the whole problem.

From what I can say right now:

Tank : Talos vs Tornado: Tornado -generous mid slots has usual makes it almost unbreakable by a single Talos

Speed: Tornado hands UP

DPS : do I really need to say 800mm or 1400mm Tornado hands up?

So, the tactic when you fly Gallente is to bring 10 probers in the system praying one of them gets some static point and hope you land just on top of them Shocked --> Lol

There's no reason to fly it vs Tornado with actuall SISI build
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#958 - 2011-11-06 11:51:33 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Not to burst your bubble but most blaster ships do just fine right now IF they land on top of there targets. But that is a small % of fights. Were talking about the other 70-80% of the time your sol and your gona die if you try to close on something from range.


I like your "IF", because it's the whole problem.

From what I can say right now:

Tank : Talos vs Tornado: Tornado -generous mid slots has usual makes it almost unbreakable by a single Talos

Speed: Tornado hands UP

DPS : do I really need to say 800mm or 1400mm Tornado hands up?

So, the tactic when you fly Gallente is to bring 10 probers in the system praying one of them gets some static point and hope you land just on top of them Shocked --> Lol

There's no reason to fly it vs Tornado with actuall SISI build



I aggre with you 150%. This ship is no better then any other blaster ship is right now. Even after this hybird a.k.a. fitting fixes go though the Talos is going to be no better then any other blaster ship. Good for station games ect.

Go look at my post on the Talos. I straight up told them it's Pre-Nerfed like all Hybirds ships are and plz give use a fun useable drone ship. And even gave a ruff out line of one ideal.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#959 - 2011-11-06 11:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Dunmur wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Now I know alot of people hate this ideal but realy it looks to be the best fix for blasters that dont bring down the nerf hammer on any other race or make gallente boats op.

And that fix is simply to inc the falloff of blasters to match the range of auto's and pulses.

What you get is everyone hiting everyone alse and everyone geting a even shoot.

Auto Cannons will still be capless and be able to pick dmg type.

Blasters will still suck down cap and only do Kin/Therm.

Pulses will still be good becouse there always fighting in there optimal with fast ammo changes for range and there dmg is good and backed up with better def's then blasterboats.

I know it's kind of plain but it works with out braking things.



THIS is starting to sound like the only true solution.



Read back what i wrote before. Need a little range buff for baster guns too, not too much but they needed.
CCP changes start was fine but not enough. I think the speed and agility buff was good thinking, but need a littlebit better changes over 5-10m/s speed, but dont need create those gallentean ships to fastest in the game. The little tracking and fitting buff is fine, but i think thats idea need a littlebit change. Need more CPU because less CPU for guns decreasing the Weapon Upgrades CPU bonuses too.
Deimos need more PG.
Need rethinking the almost all gallentean ships. I told, change their bonuses and give to them scram range bonuses/lvl maximum to 20km with the best faction scrambler. (or test what is the best range which is useable but not overpowered)

A mega have 4.5 optimal + 13 falloff with neutrons. Need a little gun range buff. 25% to optimal is very short buff, thats changed to optimal to 5.725m,but i think thats acceptable. (null 11km would be change 13.75km)
Dont forget, a 800mm guns optimal is 3km with short range ammo, and 6km with barrage.
This is why i never understand the crying peaoples who tell us, "i dont want projectile from my blaster"

So, the falloff change need shorter range as AC.
Maybe 50% acceptable for falloff too.

Antimatter 13km falloff would be change to 19.5km, and null ammo fallof would be change from 16km to 24km with this changes.
Lower falloff than AC:

Null vs Barrage: 24 vs 32 (falloff) (ships without falloff bonuses)
but longer optimal:
Null vs Barrage 13km vs 6km (optimal)

13+24=37km vs 6+32=38km at optimal+1x falloff

I know at 2x falloff the range is changing significantly but dont forget blaster have better damage and over 1x falloff range the damage decreasing is significantly too. Dont forget critical zone for blaster ship, from over scram range to disruptor range.
This zone need decreasing for blaster ship for survival.


Let's see with short range ammo.
Longer optimal:
Antimatter vs EMP: 5.725km vs 3km (optimal)
Shorter falloff:
Antimatter vs EMP: 19.5km vs 24km (falloff)

A think this changes with a little better speed changes and with scrambler ranges idea would be enough to balancing the blaster ships.

Rails: I told before. 10% damage wont be help for rails, at least need +10% ROF too, because they have the worst alpha. So if they have littlebit better DPS than other guns wont be unbalancing the game.

Gallentean Commandships:
CCP created the scramblers after speed nerf, their recon have scrambler range lvl/bonus, but other race have scrambler gang bonus warfare command ships. This is logical ?
I dont think so. Gallentean commandships is unuseable, they have maybe just one useable gang module. Change the matari CS scram bonuses to web+targetpainter bonus and add the scram bonus to the gallentean commandships.
This is just the first step which needed to make useable the gallente command ships.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#960 - 2011-11-06 11:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Rip Minner wrote:
Now I know alot of people hate this ideal but realy it looks to be the best fix for blasters that dont bring down the nerf hammer on any other race or make gallente boats op.

And that fix is simply to inc the falloff of blasters to match the range of auto's and pulses.

What you get is everyone hiting everyone alse and everyone geting a even shoot.

Auto Cannons will still be capless and be able to pick dmg type.

Blasters will still suck down cap and only do Kin/Therm.

Pulses will still be good becouse there always fighting in there optimal with fast ammo changes for range and there dmg is good and backed up with better def's then blasterboats.

I know it's kind of plain but it works with out braking things.



Well actually it's the only reasonable option. Why?

WTF those whiners have to say when they cross amarr stuff and caldari stuff? -they have range and dmg, adapt or die.
So why should Gallente be stuck in such crap distance? -because the majority of minmatar players are so horribly traumatised and got their but exploded by an ancient version of blaster boats?? stupid rabbits are stupid

By not doing this you're just strapping some duc tape here and there, wasting time and human resources to do other stuff and you will come to this conclusion one day or another because it's just against all nature, logic or whatever you want that the shortest range weapon system doesn't have any tool to catch it's prey and keep it/melt it.

You'll have to put some lub on matar butts some day or another, the faster will be the faster they'll adapt or will die.