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A possible idea to allow better drops in missions and not screw the market.
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DSpite Culhach
#1 - 2013-05-30 12:55:02 UTC
I'm just throwing this out there to understand if people can see this being something that can be exploited or being unbalanced etc, also I'm not sure I understand "damage to modules" correctly, so this concept of mine might not work well.

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We tend to get a lot of "junk" from missions. I have always assumed that this is for balance. I understand that if we got decent stuff all the time, including in low level missions, then an optimal farming system would be found and balance broken.

Other MMO's (please don't shoot me) use the idea of "soul bound" items. Obviously this is a bad idea in terms of a space game, however, a while back I wondered to myself why we never saw "damaged" drops, ie modules that were damaged when, well, we blew the crap out of the the enemy NPC and turned him to scrap.

If a dropped module was heavily "pre damaged" (I guess this would be simulated by a overheat damage bar) then it would have an inherent cost in having it "fixed" before being sold, so it would not be financially worth doing so, especially on Meta 6+ items that are heavily damaged, cause the repair would cost a large percentage of the item. Repairing can still be an option, but if a 20 million ISK item needs 18 million ISK to be repaired first, the seller is only making 2 million instead of 20, so it still balances out IMHO.

On that note, as the players can just attach the damaged item to their own ship, the item would still be usable, so for example having a Faction item drop such as a Federation MWD dropping in an L1 mission once in a while, would simply make players mount them for personal use rather then a sale, so we would have more players fit unusual modules on "cheap" ships, which at the moment never really happens, as anything "blingy" is simply placed on the market.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#2 - 2013-05-30 13:11:03 UTC
Hmm... Soulbound. Sounds very WOWish. You're right, it's not very appropriate for a space game.

First thing I can find wrong is it's not that expensive to repair modules so all expensive items would be repaired and then put up for sale. The more expensive items there are on the market, the cheaper they become.

Secondly, it would devalue all the content which currently supplies the high end loot. If you could pick it up missioning it would render most of the high end pve content a bit pointless and annoy the heck out of those that currently do it.

I simply can't see a valid point to this. At the moment, if you want a bling fitted ship it costs you and so the risk is increased with the cost. If you could pick up these damaged mods from missions, or from the market for cheap, it would mean you could just fit your bling ship on the cheap, thus devalueing the loss. The damaged versions' stats are still the same so why would anyone fit the repaired ones (assuming that the low cost of repair was somehow made so it wasn't cheap)?

Basically, I think it would have a negative impact on the market and on non-mission combat pve for no real noticable gain other than you being able to fit the modules that you're currently too broke/scared to fit.

I'm not trying to have a go. I just don't think it would be of any real benefit overall.
DSpite Culhach
#3 - 2013-05-30 13:26:12 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Hmm... Soulbound. Sounds very WOWish. You're right, it's not very appropriate for a space game.

First thing I can find wrong is it's not that expensive to repair modules so all expensive items would be repaired and then put up for sale. The more expensive items there are on the market, the cheaper they become.

Secondly, it would devalue all the content which currently supplies the high end loot. If you could pick it up missioning it would render most of the high end pve content a bit pointless and annoy the heck out of those that currently do it.

I simply can't see a valid point to this. At the moment, if you want a bling fitted ship it costs you and so the risk is increased with the cost. If you could pick up these damaged mods from missions, or from the market for cheap, it would mean you could just fit your bling ship on the cheap, thus devalueing the loss. The damaged versions' stats are still the same so why would anyone fit the repaired ones (assuming that the low cost of repair was somehow made so it wasn't cheap)?

Basically, I think it would have a negative impact on the market and on non-mission combat pve for no real noticable gain other than you being able to fit the modules that you're currently too broke/scared to fit.

I'm not trying to have a go. I just don't think it would be of any real benefit overall.


Fair enough.

Yea, I don't have a correct graps on "repair costs" I guess. My take was that you CANT sell damaged modules and that damaged modules would be VERY expensive to repair, hence, not a worthwhile options in say, 99% of cases.

My idea was not to allow players to "bling" ships, but to allow newer players to have a taste of higher end modules every so often, in some cases raising their ship survivability by a small amount with those better drops.

I did not mean that every mission should drop damaged Gist mods, I'm just saying that it would be nice to get the odd surprise module from missions.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#4 - 2013-05-30 13:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Yes, fair point, you can't sell damaged items. The knock on effects of making it very expensive to repair a damaged item is that people would either not repair them * or they would use nanite paste and then nanite paste would increase in price which would annoy a lot of people.

My main issue with this is that one of the main reasons to move away from missions in high sec is exploration does have a slim chance of netting you one of these awesome mods. If missions did give them out, even damaged, it would reduce the point in exploration as in missions you're constantly making isk with a chance of a bling mod whereas with exploration the isk you make whilst you're hunting for a bling mod really isn't worth writing home about.

As I said, I think this would be more detrimental than beneficial, overall. I've made my point though so I'll stop harping on about it. Big smile

EDIT - * "them" being all damaged mods. Overheating suddenly gets totally nerfed with this proposed change.
DSpite Culhach
#5 - 2013-05-30 14:46:08 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Yes, fair point, you can't sell damaged items. The knock on effects of making it very expensive to repair a damaged item is that people would either not repair them * or they would use nanite paste and then nanite paste would increase in price which would annoy a lot of people.

My main issue with this is that one of the main reasons to move away from missions in high sec is exploration does have a slim chance of netting you one of these awesome mods. If missions did give them out, even damaged, it would reduce the point in exploration as in missions you're constantly making isk with a chance of a bling mod whereas with exploration the isk you make whilst you're hunting for a bling mod really isn't worth writing home about.

As I said, I think this would be more detrimental than beneficial, overall. I've made my point though so I'll stop harping on about it. Big smile

EDIT - * "them" being all damaged mods. Overheating suddenly gets totally nerfed with this proposed change.


Yea, the "already damaged by overheat" was the only way I could justify using a pre-existing mechanic that would not need new code to be created just for a new idea. The only other way I had though up was a "special" type of damage that would only be mitigated by implanting in a module slot, and then the paste basically "fusing" the module permanently, creating the ugly "Soul Bound" system in other games.

I was trying to find a way to get the odd decent module drop into player ships without also effecting the EVE economy. It's not exactly an easy task.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Lai HasCake
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-05-30 15:05:29 UTC
That stuff isnt junk its cheap minerals if for someone with the right reprocessing skills. You can already sell it on market for extra isk if you spend time setting it all up.
Out in TESTs Null space for example we have people who will buy pretty much anything for 85% jita value so they can reprocess it into minerals or use if its a useful item sell it on.

The method you are suggesting seems to have a hidden reason for getting free modules as even if its damage you can use it unless overheated.
Laura Dexx
Now Look What You've Made Me Do
#7 - 2013-05-30 16:17:40 UTC
nope nope nope nope don't bring ******* soulbound junk into this crap
Kurgadesh Maladash
Protection of Underground Resources
#8 - 2013-05-30 16:56:17 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
If a dropped module was heavily "pre damaged" (I guess this would be simulated by a overheat damage bar) then it would have an inherent cost in having it "fixed" before being sold, so it would not be financially worth doing so, especially on Meta 6+ items that are heavily damaged, cause the repair would cost a large percentage of the item. Repairing can still be an option, but if a 20 million ISK item needs 18 million ISK to be repaired first, the seller is only making 2 million instead of 20, so it still balances out IMHO.


These are the 3 reasons why this wouldn't work:

a) A damaged module can be sold, it's called Contracts.

b) The cost of repairing a module is bound to its mineral cost (cost of building it. For faction, named or deadspace modules just consider the Meta 0 mineral cost).

c) Newer players already have a way of adquiring faction/deadspace modules, it's called exploration (who would have guessed, I know). Not all sites require decent skills and ships. In the signature side you have hideouts, lookouts, DED 1, 2 and maybe 3s and there's also a bunch of hi sec anomalies that have a chance of spawning a faction rat in the end (these are the ones that drop those shiny faction mods).

Suming it up, this would just decrease variability in the things that one does in the game.

-1 OP