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5% resist nerfs across the board. A scalpel or a sledgehammer?
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Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-05-28 19:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Doesn't it make more sense to make remote repair diminished by the resists of its target?

This change punishes player who solo and don't use remote repair. Does change not greatly hurt passive tanks as well? Were resists also OP in missions? Tthose who didn't use remote repair? Maybe I'm naive but I would expect those situations where CCP has to nerf something to have a bit more finesse. Apparently, because of one instance of tactics, resists are overpowered. So why not deal with that specifically instead of a nerf that is going to effect players who don't use those overpowered tactics?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2 - 2013-05-28 19:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Nerf Burger wrote:
Doesn't it make more sense to make remote repair diminished by the resists of its target?

This change punishes player who solo and don't use remote repair. Were resists also OP in missions? those who didn't use remote repair? Maybe I'm naive but I would expect those situations where CCP has to nerf something to have a bit more finesse. Apparently because of one instance of strategy, resists are OP. So why not deal with that specifically instead of a nerf that is going to effect players who don't use those overpowered tactics?


you assume its just RR

the bonus also adds ehp and makes internal reps more effictive... arguably the resistance bonus is the most powerfull hull bonus in game and even reduced to 4% per lev its still king of ship bonuses.

so imo reducing the end effect by 5% is just the start.

also please post your concerns here as this thread will be closed for making a duplicate thread.

thanks

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-05-28 19:27:10 UTC
RR wasn't the only reason for the nerf. Among the many advantages it provides it also provided an OP HP bonus and was almost as good as local repper bonuses. It was just all kinds of goodness all rolled into one and it still is.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-05-28 19:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
MeBiatch wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Doesn't it make more sense to make remote repair diminished by the resists of its target?

This change punishes player who solo and don't use remote repair. Were resists also OP in missions? those who didn't use remote repair? Maybe I'm naive but I would expect those situations where CCP has to nerf something to have a bit more finesse. Apparently because of one instance of strategy, resists are OP. So why not deal with that specifically instead of a nerf that is going to effect players who don't use those overpowered tactics?


you assume its just RR

the bonus also adds ehp and makes internal reps more effictive... arguably the resistance bonus is the most powerfull hull bonus in game and even reduced to 4% per lev its still king of ship bonuses.

so imo reducing the end effect by 5% is just the start.

also please post your concerns here as this thread will be closed for making a duplicate thread.

thanks


granted that is a good point, though often those ships with bonuses like that have some other limitations. But what about passive tanks who don't rely on internal reps for their lasting power, isn't this a greater and possibly unnecessary nerf to them?
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-05-28 19:33:13 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:


granted you have a point, but what about passive tanks who don't rely on internal reps for their lasting power, isn't this a greater and possibly unnecessary nerf to them?


Most good solo ship hulls dont even have this bonus.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6 - 2013-05-28 20:06:46 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

granted that is a good point, though often those ships with bonuses like that have some other limitations. But what about passive tanks who don't rely on internal reps for their lasting power, isn't this a greater and possibly unnecessary nerf to them?


I am sure all affected ships will go threw a POLISH pass sometime after the summer expansion and if any changes are needed they will be done then.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Vince Snetterton
#7 - 2013-05-28 20:28:46 UTC
This was a terribly badly thought out exercise in killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
Yes, there may have been a few ships that could use a small nerf in their EHP.

But to hammer every ship that had this bonus indicates an extremely poor grasp of the game mechanics and the individual ships and where they fall in the spectrum of firepower / tank.

In essence, this is all part and parcel of CCP's new thrust of "more ships going boom is good".
The TE nerf was designed to hurt kiting, and force more brawling. Brawling in and of itself leads to more destruction.

The resist nerf is part of the same plan to create more destruction in Eve.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#8 - 2013-05-28 20:31:08 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
This was a terribly badly thought out exercise in killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
Yes, there may have been a few ships that could use a small nerf in their EHP.

But to hammer every ship that had this bonus indicates an extremely poor grasp of the game mechanics and the individual ships and where they fall in the spectrum of firepower / tank.

In essence, this is all part and parcel of CCP's new thrust of "more ships going boom is good".
The TE nerf was designed to hurt kiting, and force more brawling. Brawling in and of itself leads to more destruction.

The resist nerf is part of the same plan to create more destruction in Eve.


power creap(ed) me out... so it had to go bro.

sorry.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#9 - 2013-05-28 21:33:31 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
This was a terribly badly thought out exercise in killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
Yes, there may have been a few ships that could use a small nerf in their EHP.

But to hammer every ship that had this bonus indicates an extremely poor grasp of the game mechanics and the individual ships and where they fall in the spectrum of firepower / tank.

In essence, this is all part and parcel of CCP's new thrust of "more ships going boom is good".
The TE nerf was designed to hurt kiting, and force more brawling. Brawling in and of itself leads to more destruction.

The resist nerf is part of the same plan to create more destruction in Eve.


It has less to do with EHP and more to do with reducing a bonus that has benefit to all three tanking styles (local active, buffer and rr). No other tank bonus affects all three styles in such an effective way.

Going from 5 to 4% is actually quite well thought out since it reduces the effect slightly without causing a drastic change like replacing the restance bonus with a raw HP bonus.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2013-05-28 21:44:12 UTC
…not to mention that straight percentage-point bonuses to resists hit different ships — even different rests on the same ship — very unevenly. It hardly affects brittle ships and massively buffs already tanky ones.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2013-05-28 22:18:40 UTC
A 4% per level resist bonus and a 5% per level hit point bonus have the same effect at Level V.

4% x 5 = 20%. 1 / (1-20%) = 1.25

5% x 5 = 25%. 1 + 25% = 1.25

But at all lesser levels the the hit point bonus is better.

Level Resist bonus Point bonus
1 1.0417 1.0500
2 1.0870 1.1000
3 1.1364 1.1500
4 1.1905 1.2000
5 1.2500 1.2500

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#12 - 2013-05-28 22:24:32 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
A 4% per level resist bonus and a 5% per level hit point bonus have the same effect at Level V.

4% x 5 = 20%. 1 / (1-20%) = 1.25

5% x 5 = 25%. 1 + 25% = 1.25

But at all lesser levels the the hit point bonus is better.

Level Resist bonus Point bonus
1 1.0417 1.0500
2 1.0870 1.1000
3 1.1364 1.1500
4 1.1905 1.2000
5 1.2500 1.2500


hows the math look with ogb?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-28 22:31:58 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
A 4% per level resist bonus and a 5% per level hit point bonus have the same effect at Level V.

4% x 5 = 20%. 1 / (1-20%) = 1.25

5% x 5 = 25%. 1 + 25% = 1.25

But at all lesser levels the the hit point bonus is better.

Level Resist bonus Point bonus
1 1.0417 1.0500
2 1.0870 1.1000
3 1.1364 1.1500
4 1.1905 1.2000
5 1.2500 1.2500


hows the math look with ogb?

Would OGB's change anything in the math? I thought those benefits were simply applied multiplacatively thus not changing the relationship between the 2.
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-28 23:10:15 UTC
...and the people turned their swords into ploughs and shears.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#15 - 2013-05-29 01:23:01 UTC
........what.

um.

I think I missed something?

wtf is this based on? Can I get a link or something? My tantrum setting is set to probe nerfs, so I must have missed something.