Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I always thought that for PvE the (navy) Apoc was the ship of choice for amarrian t1 hulls. Less damage true, but lots of cap and extra range for the pulse lazors gave you much more utility and longevity. With cap rigs I can run pulse lazors forever and pulsing the repper I have a lot of endurance. Scorch +1 TC gave you practically 80km range for what are by name short range weapons. And not to talk about the 30ish km's range with high damage crystals. With 4 navy heatsinks that's 920 + DPS from the guns alone. Not sure what the navy geddon looks like now, but the (navy) apoc was such a beautiful ship I'm sad just thinking about it.
As for abaddon it's a brick house, true, but it can only breathe with outside help or cap boosters.

The only abaddon I ever lost in L4 was my first one(with faction turrets on top of that). The reason for this was that I left it in a easy mission with the repper off(instead of on, what I generally do) while alt tabbing to kill a pest in a empire war(that even got away by a lucky ecm drone jam) and was so busy to go after it that I forgot about looking after the abaddon.

If you get bored and don't pay proper attention, it is hardly a issue of the hull or overall game balance. If I look at the fittings I get exactly the picture of somebody that isn't up to date how to fit and fly amarr hulls. A co processor on a geddon, a AB on a shield harbinger, neut sub on a legion without neuts, scram on a mwd fitted shield harb, a shield tanked abaddon full of cap mods and the list goes on.

It is nearly as funny as if darth posts about armor fleets can't compete with shield fleets in incursions, while we did just that yesterday with multiple people in fleet dual boxing, because we couldn't find players with useful setups.



You need 2 more slots for cap on it and it gets a 37,5% tracking bonus(worth a bit more than one med slot). Technically the changes on the apoc are 1 single slot that you have to sacrifice for cap compared to the current version, while you get a lot of speed, more max tracking, more lock range, less sig and a very easy to fit ship for younger players without maxed fitting skills.

Amarr will have the option of the Armageddon for mission : cap less weapons with selectable damage. That is a premium option.

You are not asking for amarr to have an option for pve, you are asking for lasers to cumulate their advantages on top of the advantages of other weapon systems because they are easier to use in pve.

And what Diego showed is not that laser *can* do pve, she showed that T1 amarr BS can do *competitive* pve, and even compete with pirate ships (and the best of them on top of that).

Good != easy.

I spent over a billion ISK for the setup(twice for gods sake) and implants, millions of SP for maxing it out and spending a lot of time to optimize my play style and the setup. If the performance after all this is effort considered is good enough for me, it should be good enough for you to.

My amarr char wasn't born with T2 lasers and BS 5 and flown L4 missions very effective way before that skill level in a even worse fitted Abaddon(before I started looking into discharge rigs).

You're trolling, right? Let's consider the difference between possible and desirable. Imagine a new pilot joining Eve. We can advise him to skill toward Armageddon for PVE or... something else. While it will be possible to PVE in an Armageddon, it is nonsense to suggest that it will be the desirable option compared to non-Amarr choices.


Neat but empty rhetoric. Lasers ought have advantages in some areas over other weapons, in full balance for their disadvantages. It's fine if lasers cannot fire as continuously as other weapons so long as that is balanced out by something. The catch is that to balance short firing bursts fully would foreseeably lead to higher alpha values: which is undesirable. Ergo, lengthening the duration that lasers can be fired for is very likely the best design call.


Djego did not show that. I saw a cherry-picked fit of questionable efficiency, and a video of a completely different ship doing a mission with questionable relevance. Meanwhile other commentators offered contrasting experiences that chimed better with those of Amarr pilots in my acquaintance.

When one genuninely feels one would advise a new player to join the golden fleet and skill toward BS (and not just as a stepping stone to caps) then one has attaned the desirable situation. For me, the balance should be asymmetrical. If I would be asking that player questions about how they want to play and that was relevant to the choice, then great! However, Amarr need equally to compete in a diversity of roles in both PVP and PVE. A difficult design task but one that is necessary to take on.

You talk about 5 minutes as if it's a huge improvement, that is still awful for half the L4's. It doesn't matter though, the tank isn't strong enough to last that long under most of those missions so you'd be warping out regardless.



Are you trolling? You would do exactly that if you wanted to compare EHP numbers. If you're not going to use similar fits then stop comparing them.



No, not even close. The Gurrista "The Assault" comes to mind, they're resistant to your 700 turret dps and can shoot their missiles out a lot longer range than you. You have to eventually handle close spawns as in the Angel/Sansha "World's Collide" and that tank will break under those rooms.



You're trolling again. You were the one quoting cap-out times and I was saying the Mach's can be significantly increased with a NOS while the Abaddon's can't. Don't compare cap times if you think they're never going to be hit, even though 3-5 minutes will be hit on a fair number of multi-spawn missions.



I'll let this idiotic statement live on it's own. Anyone arguing the Abaddon not having cap issues in PvE can't be reasoned with.

This is why people have stopped responding to you Bough (except for the new people who aren't familiar with your trolling. Obviously CCP and 150 pages of pilots disagree as seen by the recent Large Energy tweaks and scheduled rebalance coming up. Feel free to keep pushing the lasers are fine BS, no one's listening.

Yes Amarr can do PvE and lvl4.

And ??? Nobody here says no to that.

Stop flame and troll like that !!!! Don't think people arguing that Amarr/lasers having too much issue are completely noobs, you are not a superstar, true ?
Just please consider that other people, not best not worst than you in all aspect, could have different points of view.

And stop with the drone armageddon for PvE !!!! Not funny anymore.
Let's neut the rat ;) with a 5 unbonused launcher boat ;) ;)
Yeah Armageddon will be able to make lvl4. The scorpion can do it too. An Hulk can do it too.
Effectiveness ?

Again you think everybody is like you. But a lot of people don't like drones.
Drones are just overrated because of EFT, I guess. You argue well about weakness and power of lasers, do the same thing with drones. Some elites, some lag, and you loose lot of isk. Not to mention the huge loose of dps in launching and taking back the drones in the bay. Not to mention the tracking issue, the optimal issue, the speed issue (if not sentries) of the drones.




That's right we are all noobs crying, and you are a divinity.

Please, please !!!!! Forgive us.

And I've run the AE bonus room in an armor tanked Harbinger (to quote you, because the giggles demaned it). And I have quite often run an Abaddon in the AE Bonus room as well, not saying it can't be done, but that the fit specified is too weak on cap life to do it seriously, and comparing it to a Mach of all things is exceptionally weak, what with the Mach being able to pick it's damage type to hit the rats in the hole while the abaddon has to hit them square on their highest resists.

The real shame, though, is that the Legion is a far far better mission runner, with the ability to fit a much stronger tank, and since it's a cruiser also able to speed and sig tank on top of that, while giving up relatively minimal DPS in comparison. There's no reason that a Cruiser should be able to so easily beat down a Battleship like that, yet, it does.

It really easy to cap drain abaddon in 3 minutes - just fit mwd, you know, that worthless thing that allows machariel to close range in few seconds without any cap issues while tanking with xlsb. But I guess you prefer 3x lower speed of afterburner and spending 3x more time out of range. Thats exactly the way l4 missions are best ran. Oh, and when we are talking about "special" fits, you dont even need mwd for that. Only thing that could be issue is, that because of **** tank you will die before you cap out.

Sure, mach can do anything better than abaddon and most things better than nightmare or something else, it can do many missions just on its shield buffer, because its plain better ship. It can also tank much better than abaddon because it has lower sig, higher speed and faster killspeed.

That med rep fit isnt even close to sufficient and if you are saying it is, you are simply lying.

It does mean it will run of cap in 3 or 5 minutes. Simple as that. Because you are shooting (thats the thing you come to do in the mission) and you are running tank (that is unsufficient to tank all incoming damage) and most likely abing to get into range of another mission npcs.

It is clearly good idea then to pick l4 in which rats have no chance to project their dps as "most taxing mission in terms of tank."

Rented - "I agree about the Mach, however the Abaddon is far from the worst"
Abaddon is easily one of the worst bs sized l4 ships in eve.

Rented - "What is that sir? You changed your mind from a few sentences ago? Suddenly dead things do super relevant damage again? Wait... that's because you have to suicide dive into the rats for some reason... sound reasoning! "
Reading comprehension ftw... If you werent so dumb as you clearly are, you would realize, that projecting more dps with better damage type to npc is going to finish mission faster. So diving into rats for 300 more dps would certainly be best way to finish said mission - if that shitfit actually had enough tank to do it. Mentioned mach with faction xlsb can easily do it without running from rats.

Rented - that has worse range, 26 dps more damage, the same drones obviously we're all gentlemen here and don't do stupid things like use heavies or sentries, the same, but longer lasting tank with worse tank buffer and much better cap management
Nothing overstated, all I posted is facts, I even UNDERSTATED some things as properly fitted kronos can do 914 dps at 51+58 just with guns. Easy 140 more dps than scorch abaddon. And since kronos can actually hit any npc in locking range for decent damage, agro everything and pop triggers to let npcs approach without its tank failing, you dont have to ab around in it like a tard in shitfit abaddon - and you can actually use sentry drones. But I guess your mental capacity isnt high enough to take it and you rather resort to spamming plain LIES...

Rented - with a high mobility gank tank boat
Calling 300m/s ship that needs 4 ab cycles to reach that speed and cannot afford to run ab for longer time because it will just cap out "high mobility" boat... you are literally ********. Wondering what is 1505m/s machariel for you if 300m/s abaddon is "high mobility" boat. Visitor from fairy land?

Rented - Why sir, have you changed your mind yet again? At least it took you a couple paragraphs to completely reverse your view on what range you should engage rats at....
One more proof you are litterally stupid. You know, if you werent in some failfit ship that cant tank a **** and cant hit to 100k, you would just agro every important group in that mission, and while you were killing rats spawning close to you, rest of them would come to your optimal. But that is not your case.

Rented - Oh! I can't read
No, you cant, you also have problems of understanding game mechanics and are generally stupid (or ********). Thats your personal problem and you should consult it with specialists (or better said, your parents/legal representative should consult it with specialists).

TLDR
You are bad troll, ****** or both. Imo you would do better in minmatar/galente whine threads asking for more falloff, more damage, more tracking with usual bullshit arguments like "my mega cant hit a frig orbiting at 500m" or "but ima always in falloff." Im sure some of the galente/minmatar fanboys would jump on it and whine for another "small" buff.
You are wasting your time here with your lies exactly as diego is wasting his time with his bullshit capstable fits (capstable without rep, without prop, without t2 ammo, without rats shooting back etc.).