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Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no?

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#261 - 2011-11-04 19:37:56 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.


You may want to look up the trend in the numbr of people logging in to EVE.


People are logging back into Eve, despite all the games that have been coming out, and that's saying something. I've been flying with a few people in my corp that I haven't seen in over a year. The direction change and what is coming out has been bringing people back to Eve. That is good. However, I am with many in this thread when I say that I hope Incarna isn't abandoned. The potential for Incarna being awesome is there. What we got was severely lacking.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Ahhh, no.

If someone in null is too stupid to figure out how to make good money post nerf, all they need do is go back to having a money making alt in Empire. That's how it worked for years and nothing has occured to make that more difficult... in fact it would be easier now than ever, considering the changes to agent quality.

Need I point out that this would give even more incentive to have multiple accounts...


Honestly, Incursions are a bigger money maker than anoms ever were and significantly more fun than any of the other income sources in Eve right now.


Fair point, which reinforces the point I was making. The Anom nerf had little or nothing to do with the loss of subscriptions in EVE.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#262 - 2011-11-04 21:43:59 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:
The squeeky wheel gets the grease. However, I think that this refocus of their time is well spent. They are still working on WIS. And I do believe they will have something out in about a year. However, I am excited that the actual core gameplay is being addressed. These are items that have plagued the game for years. I'm all for fixing the game before you add more stuff to it.


No, they are not working in any way on WiS so to the OP there are no establishments coming in any current CCP plan. Himar said once the other COs are delivered Incarna has been delivered.

Himlar said they will focus on FiS only going forward as the Eve players indicated that is all they want and another developer confirmed that WiS work is "on ice" indefinitely. I have a very active thread going about that very topic.

Y'all need to be reading more!

Issler
Selinate
#263 - 2011-11-04 21:45:43 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.



THANK YOU.

Even if I do really want the establishments, I really want this game to perform better with avatars...
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#264 - 2011-11-04 21:50:46 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Too Much Effort wrote:
Well, you're just an uninformed idiot aren't you.

Thanks for exposing that at the beginning of the post. You have no ******* clue what you're talking about.


Why don't you enlighten me then. Issler is proposing that they release walking in stations prior to having any game play features there. Just a hallway people can stand in. What is it you anticipate doing in that hallway?


I proposed more than a "hallway". An assortment of rooms of different themes for example. And a lot of players supported that suggestion. CCP is lying if they say they don't know how to make it compelling, there are hundreds of suggestions from players about how they could, some simple, some complex.

If you can't find some value in having a real area to occupy with other pilots as avatars in a station, then don't through the door but stop saying lots of folks wouldn't find value in what that offered and that even something simple in that direction would expand the appeal of Eve to the folks that won't play because they can't leave their ship.

Issler
Cpt Arareb
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#265 - 2011-11-04 22:54:14 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.

buuuu byyy Roll
Tristan North
The Scope
#266 - 2011-11-04 23:10:06 UTC
Cpt Arareb wrote:



buuuu byyy Roll

You're fuckin ugly.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#267 - 2011-11-04 23:33:31 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.


Here's the problem. You've been talking about walking in stations for a long time. I have been hearing about it for close to 3 years. Now no matter what you do you are ****** for subs. You cant possibly keep the FiS and WiS crowds happy if neither is working as intended. You guys were just starting to get your PCU up again.

TL;DR

PROTIP: Don't tell your kids you're going to Disney till you have the tickets in your hand.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#268 - 2011-11-04 23:39:25 UTC
Seleene wrote:
In order for Incarna to have any chance whatsoever, there needs to be solid, interesting game play. That doesn't exist, nor has the CSM seen anything on the horizon that looks to change that. From 'that other forum':

Quote:
Since there never appeared to be a solid idea about what 'establishments' would bring to EVE, CCP basically postponed a feature that didn't exist in the first place.

Incarna has the potential to be amazing but in terms of importance, for example when allocating resources, it pales, or should pale, in comparison to spaceships. Certainly now, and probably for a long time to come as well. In the end, you can take Incarna out of EVE, but you can't take spaceships out of EVE.


Yep.


Soundwave got up at fanfest and described it quite precisely. There's even a youtube video of it for our players who were educated prior to no child left behind.

Council of Stellar Misrepresentation.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2011-11-05 00:50:07 UTC
Tristan North wrote:
Mystic5hadow wrote:
"We won't have Establishments ready by December, so lets do something easier and say we're listening to people. Win-win."

This.


"We have no idea what establishments are supposed to be about, other than a way to socialize with other people's avatars. So instead we're going to go back to the spaceships bit (which drew MOST of this playerbase) and try to improve or fix things that have needed love for years, in a desperate bid to NOT lose so many subscribers that we no longer have a source of income. Crazily enough, we might even get back some players by doing this.

Also Incarna did not draw in the expected new subscribers, because it's an unfinished feature and should've been left in the oven another couple years." (what CCP has not actually said, but may be inferred)
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#270 - 2011-11-05 01:39:13 UTC
Oh, it is nice that someone got back this old thread from the drawer.
It kind of proves that there are more than "10 peoples and their alts" caring about WiS.
Thank you!

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#271 - 2011-11-05 01:43:44 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Oh, it is nice that someone got back this old thread from the drawer.
It kind of proves that there are more than "10 peoples and their alts" caring about WiS.
Thank you!

You have a funny definition of the word 'proof'.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#272 - 2011-11-05 01:45:36 UTC
No, I just counted the number of people that posted pro-WiS in this thread.
Perhaps you have a funny concept of math?

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#273 - 2011-11-05 01:49:00 UTC
no.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#274 - 2011-11-07 16:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranka Mei
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.


I'm sad establishments won't be in the Winter expansion, as I truly looked forward to everything Incarna had to offer. I am, at the same time, delighted to hear you commit to doing something with Incarna, and that the door will eventually open -- even if you can't tell yet when that's going to be.

Not that it matters, but, for the record, I am a WiS lover; and I am not alone, I can assure you that!

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#275 - 2011-11-07 17:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Grukni
Players already gave lots of ideas about how to make Incarna fun. It was mainly about running covert ops and pirating missions. Gambling (mini-games) and watching exotic dancers while drinking quafe was a nice plus to have, but not worth the effort for the added value.

An example:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1529922

Of course CCP knows it, but can't deliver on time and I understand, because it's a huge task, impossible to deliver in a 6 months timeframe.
Candy n'Backrubs
Doomheim
#276 - 2011-11-08 05:12:09 UTC
Mersault wrote:
Establishments, like pies, take a good deal of preperation. They need time to rest before they are good to go.


You just blew my mind
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#277 - 2011-11-08 05:20:51 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
I proposed more than a "hallway". An assortment of rooms of different themes for example. And a lot of players supported that suggestion. CCP is lying if they say they don't know how to make it compelling, there are hundreds of suggestions from players about how they could, some simple, some complex.

If you can't find some value in having a real area to occupy with other pilots as avatars in a station, then don't through the door but stop saying lots of folks wouldn't find value in what that offered and that even something simple in that direction would expand the appeal of Eve to the folks that won't play because they can't leave their ship.

Issler


Can you give me an example of something simple, but fun, CCP could do with WiS? So far the suggestions I've heard have either seemed very involved (aka development time hogs) or pointless. Do you have a specific suggestion that you think evades both those problems?
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#278 - 2011-11-08 05:41:17 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I proposed more than a "hallway". An assortment of rooms of different themes for example. And a lot of players supported that suggestion. CCP is lying if they say they don't know how to make it compelling, there are hundreds of suggestions from players about how they could, some simple, some complex.

If you can't find some value in having a real area to occupy with other pilots as avatars in a station, then don't through the door but stop saying lots of folks wouldn't find value in what that offered and that even something simple in that direction would expand the appeal of Eve to the folks that won't play because they can't leave their ship.

Issler


Can you give me an example of something simple, but fun, CCP could do with WiS? So far the suggestions I've heard have either seemed very involved (aka development time hogs) or pointless. Do you have a specific suggestion that you think evades both those problems?

Doesn't matter what he says, you will either say it's not fun, pointless, or takes too much work to develop.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#279 - 2011-11-08 05:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
Soulpirate wrote:
Doesn't matter what he says, you will either say it's not fun, pointless, or takes too much work to develop.


The ideas I've heard so far have certainly all fallen into one of those three categories. Examples include basically just creating an empty hallway players can stand in together (not fun), moving features that you can currently access via the station interface to NPCs you would have to go talk to (pointless), or complex designs involving establishments and NPC offering new types of missions (too much work).

That's why I oppose WiS. I haven't heard any suggestions that could justify the drain of dev resources. But if somebody has an idea that would be easy to make and not completely pointless, I'd totally support that.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#280 - 2011-11-08 06:11:47 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I proposed more than a "hallway". An assortment of rooms of different themes for example. And a lot of players supported that suggestion. CCP is lying if they say they don't know how to make it compelling, there are hundreds of suggestions from players about how they could, some simple, some complex.

If you can't find some value in having a real area to occupy with other pilots as avatars in a station, then don't through the door but stop saying lots of folks wouldn't find value in what that offered and that even something simple in that direction would expand the appeal of Eve to the folks that won't play because they can't leave their ship.

Issler


Can you give me an example of something simple, but fun, CCP could do with WiS? So far the suggestions I've heard have either seemed very involved (aka development time hogs) or pointless. Do you have a specific suggestion that you think evades both those problems?


Just because you can't see something as fun doesn't mean other folks wouldn't. For example, two fanfests ago there was an amazing video of a hangar full of a huge range of ships, a viewing gallery of docked ships would be amazing. My corp for example would love a corporate meeting room and lounge. We'd also like a recruiting office. A know a lot of players that would be very happy with that as a start.

That you wouldn't enjoy that isn't my problem because a number of folks would.

Issler