Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Frigates are not intended to necessarilly go toe to toe with battleships. The reason they can survive pretty well is due to thier speed combined with their small size. But right now the speed is so effective that no one ever wants to take a battleship out. I know I don't. A few small ships will get under my guns and the battleships will just sit there making sick cow noises as it goes down. I would like it so that battleships have some way to engage large numbers of smaller ships. I'm not trying to make it so larger ships always blap smaller ships but I don't would like changes that promote more fights between the 2 classes of ships.

Even cruiser with dual webs has a tough time hitting an ab frigate if the cruiser is scrammed, webbed and has a single td on it. So any bs that relies on turrets is unlikely to be a workable candidate.

IMO Large drones like large ships should be able to do reliable amounts of damage to a small ship that is standing still. If they can't then there is something wrong with the ai.

If a large ship wants to sacrifice other things for dual webs I think the drones should be able to hit smaller targets. The fact that ships which sacrifice a mid for 2 webs will only lead to their larger drones *missing* the smaller target more often seems broken to me. Drones seem like a crap shoot.

Those are my general thoughts. How effective should a bs be against smaller ships? I don't know but some battleships (not all) should be more effective than they are now. Drone battleships seem to be a good choice. How many frigates/desstroyers/cruisers should a drone bs be able to fight? I don't know.

I'm just looking for tweaks so that not every battleships has to always run scared through low sec like a big baby. And they can have some use outside of Battleship versus battleship fleet fights and structure shoots.

If a battleship would ever want to be safe from swarming frigates, it should have a destroyer-escort.

+1

Player for player one expects equity, after considering RPS match-ups. Meaning that several frigates against one BS is several players against one player. The one should not be safe from them. A well set-up drone BS can probably tank one frigate, depending on skills and choices.

Drone battleships already can do it as well as most of them can comfortably tank 2 frigates until they run out of cap boosters.
Hell, I even managed to kill bunch of frigates in scorpion (not navy, just vanilla) with 4 unbonused torps, 5 unbonused hammerheads and hobgoblins (pre dda) and 2 neuts. While tanking 10 other ships...

I agree though that "some" of the battleships are designed as fatass bricks with no utility, low mids, few drones and limited usefulness.

Membranes will not save cap for most Amarr pilots. Two hardeners can be run for half-an-hour with the repper off, while making say 30 seconds difference to the cap-out time with the repper running. But you will be able to pulse the repper less frequently. So the rat-specific tank holds up longer. FWIW it'll cost less too.

After Odyssey Abaddon will improve slightly on cap while losing slightly on resists: potentially a wash in ratting terms.

Look at your assumptions. Abaddon is okay for incursions with logi on tap. But a painful ship to rat in unless you've got maxxed skills and ideal implants. There are better ships with easier requirements. Your example Kronos can choose an ideal damage type against AE: so that 'crappy' 850DPS counts more than 150% better than damage from Amarr lasers.

Stop posting bullshit diego.

That stupid abaddon fit you posted cant do ****. I just took similar fit to sansha blockade on sisi and the outcome was that when td wave spawned, it could do NOTHING. Tded to 10+6km with td cruisers at 45k and 70k. When I approached them, tracking started to be an issue, after I killed 2 of them, battleships that initially spawned at 55k and 70k were at 45-48k and started to fully apply their damage.

As the dps started to rise (still being tded by 2-3tds) tank started to break - warp out... Btw its not 189 tank, its even less because abaddon is getting resist nerf. Yeah, not to forget, I had to warp before I ran out of cap... so for shitfit with 400+ mil deaspace rep.

And if you find it funny that 850 dps kronos that can shoot with ANTIMATTER to 47+49k or even 51+58k and can actually hit out to lock range, while also having damage of 3 sentrys and tank of large rep plus comfortable cap stability (with guns actually shooting), can beat pulse abaddon, then you are stupid. That pulse abaddon couldnt use conflag on anything else in the mission but first mutant lord. Everything else was outside conflag/inmf range and often with scorch in deep falloff.
I ran also one gone berserk with that shitfit - doable, but forget about poping triggers to get every rat into optimal. If you do this, your tank will break. If you dont, you will need to shoot everything but 2 eom hydras ad 2 ogres with scorch.

That was with maxed skills (except spec 5) and +5% implants for tracking, large turret damage, turret damage, cap recharge and cap amount.

Yeah, and angel extravaganza bonus most taxing on tank... nice lie... only thing in that pocket doing some damage from the start are cruise batteries and angels dont do any damage except some poor missiles till they are 10k from you. Ofc they never get close against 850 kin/th dps at 47+49k.

Check my killboards for the number of Abaddon's I've lost to rats (I API link to them so my PvP stats look worse then they are for the accumulation of rat losses (I get bored in missions and stop paying proper attention most of the time :P )) if you feel that I haven't spent a proper amount of time flying Amarr hulls. And I will say, Djego, I agree... your proposed fit is crap and will die horribly in AE bonus room.

You can't call something "not cap stable" while perma running a shield booster.

That Machariel fit absolutely destroys the Abaddon fit hands down. 12K+ EHP and TRIPLE the cap time even without the non T2 CCC rig, and DOUBLE the weapon range. It isn't even close and I'm not sure why you'd try to compare them. That Abaddon fit with that tank, speed, and weapon range will have trouble with most L4's unless you warp in and out.

Umm, no it doesn't. Yes the Mach will always be in falloff but the ability to pick a faction ammo to match your target's resist will more than make up for it (plus the Abaddon has zero-performance after it's capped out in 3 minutes).



That's what happens when you use one hardener on the Mach and 2 on the Abaddon, use equal fits. The Abaddon will still possibly have more but it's speed and sig will avoid more damage than the brick Abaddon and it can run it's repper for a lot longer than the Abaddon.



3 or 5 minutes is awful for L4's and will cause lots of lost DPS waiting for cap while the Mach doesn't have to as long as he's not running its tank. Put a heavy NOS on the Mach fit in the empty high and you'll run even longer.



The Mach is arguably the best mission runner out there while the Abaddon one of the worst (unless you have remote-cap or remote-rep which make it strong in blobs).

Why do you even talk about angel extravaganza bonus diego?
Anyone that did it at least once with 850+ damage boat will tell you that its damage is irrelevant. Angel rats have no chance of getting in range and absolutely no chance getting in range if you are using afterburner. That angel sentrys wont do any meaningful damage and you can 2 shot them at the start. Also you decide when to pop the trigger and release another rats.
Ofc if you want to actually finish the mission in any reasonable amount of time, you want maximize your dps output and shoot the rats with conflag (you should do that because scorch is crap against angel rats) - well, then you have problem in your abaddon, because 180 tank is not even close to do it, not even with 1000+ dps.

Its still funny (or sad) that you are trying to convince people, that 180 dps tank abaddon that caps out just by shooting conflag is tanky enough, because in different time, different mission and different ship (that has better range, better damage, more drones, better tank and much better cap management) tanks enough.

Btw did also one pirate invasion yesterday - that only further confirmed that shitfit abaddon is useless. Most spawns out of scorch range, bunch of rats bumping of station ruins to 150k and I cant aggro them, because with that 4 sansha savant lords spawning at 30k my tank would fail... so yeah, happy afterburning in slowest bs in the universe

And anyone saying that abaddon is better than machariel in l4s is just plain dumb.