These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Try our new hacking/archaeology sites!

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#381 - 2013-05-26 10:24:54 UTC
One Relic container opened in 0.7 : all cans looted except scrap ones : 1980isk total.

I know that I was unlucky and so on, but even with the worst luck possible, if you want to buff exploration you'll need to have a minimum reward higher than a rookie npc bounty...

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Avada K3davra
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#382 - 2013-05-26 10:35:57 UTC
I don't like new scatering conteners and hacking game, they must die.
Aminam Proweco
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#383 - 2013-05-26 10:48:09 UTC
All players here agree that spewing pinata is awful. Get rid of it.
As for team play here are some ideas (some are mentioned before):
Add layers for better loot
Add timer and allow people to hack together to promote team play

Think players would like timer more than chasing the cans!
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2013-05-26 11:05:16 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We've reduced the number of cans and are looking at loot table again. In general though, the scattering and picking up of cans remains.

I've got to protest this decision in the strongest possible terms. The loot scatter mechanic is not fun or engaging either for one person or for multiple people. Please listen to the feedback that players are giving you and consider a different mechanic, because this one will not work.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Naomi Hale
#385 - 2013-05-26 12:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Hale
I've tried a few 'Relic' sites now, spread over high, low and null sec. They've all been salvage and junk. Are there any that contain ancient relics or something, maybe Talocan, Yan Jung and Takmahl. Stuff that, even if its worthless on the market, is mixed in with the salvage, just something to make it feel more like a forgotten relic rather than an ancient, abandon garbage scow?

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#386 - 2013-05-26 14:23:21 UTC
Onatoh 0.3 - Regional Guristas data center was guarded by 2 npc on warp in. The data center is buried in some rock formation, my ship got stuck: unable to loot. Almost got killed by the spawned npc. Looting these mini cans is just awfull, I sense a major QQ wave when the expansion will hit the live server from those who love eploration but never bothered to test it. This is not good at all.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#387 - 2013-05-26 14:40:48 UTC
I could have sworn we were told something about "We're going to remove NPC spawns from these sites", yet they still spawn on failure.

Now, I don't have a big problem. My Probe can fit a sufficient tank, field three T2 light drones at a time and I've got enough fittings for two T2 rocket launchers. I can defend myself against the rats that spawn. I'm just curious if they're actually being removed or if someone's mind changed and we weren't told.

PS - The Probe is an amazing ship.
Veyer Erastus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2013-05-26 15:26:07 UTC
Finally done a couple of data sites in WH. Was surprised to see NPCs there and even more surprised that i could do WH one's when my skill wasn't enough for low-sec sites. While the hacking mini game was fun, can't say i there is anything fun in what comes next. Clicking furiously on loot containers is kinda dumb. Not to mention it doesn't help group players as there is only so much "useful" containers - more then half was had useless junk, which will only fill your cargo.
Xia Kairui
Perkone
Caldari State
#389 - 2013-05-26 15:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Xia Kairui
I ran a few sites in high, low and WH space - maybe half a dozen so sample size is not really a thing.

Important things first: Value varied wildly, but I did more or less grab the loot cans randomly as I had no idea which ones were worth chasing. Most sites contained crap, but I found one Serpentis site in high sec that gave me about 22M in decryptors and such. Most other HS sites yielded junk though. A mag site in a C2 WH yielded maybe 200k of junk, but this might have been since I was using the Drake to loot AND one of the three cans decided to spew its contents through the Sleeper structure so I couldn't chase the cans.

Personally I hate the spewing mechanism (I'm too old to play twitch games, that's one of the reasons I like EVE) and I think it will not promote team play except in rare circumstances like WH runs where you are in a gang already. The main problem is that the guys not doing the scanning/hacking are sitting there twiddling their thumbs. I'd rather go mining than help a friend with chasing spew cans.
It was also annyoing that some times the can was being tractored near my ship but did not vanish - it took a few precious seconds for it to be emptied. I am not sure if I was moving too fast or what happened, just that I could not tractor new cans.

The hacking game was ... meh. Better than waiting for a cycle to finish, but overall it was too much random clicking around. The difference between Hacking IV and Hacking V was enormous.

I am not sure how this will turn out for LS exploration. So far it wasn't a big issue since you could watch d-scan, but with the hacking game and the spew madness you need to focus too much on that. Well, that's a job for the buddy that you take along as spew can chaser - he is also now a dedicated d-scan spammer. I think I already said I'd rather go and mine.

Summary: Initially I've started training my TQ character to Hacking V when I started the test since that gave such a massive boost, but right now I think I won't bother as the spewing is annoying for being twitchy in a universe where twitching hasn't been a factor yet and because the direction of spew can be such that you can't catch anything if you're unlucky.
Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#390 - 2013-05-26 16:39:08 UTC
True exploration is done in W-Space...

I can't stand chasing after these cans!
Naomi Hale
#391 - 2013-05-26 16:52:54 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I've got to protest this decision in the strongest possible terms. The loot scatter mechanic is not fun or engaging either for one person or for multiple people. Please listen to the feedback that players are giving you and consider a different mechanic, because this one will not work.

While I would like to see something else, realistically it's too close to Odyssey's launch to head back to the drawing board. This is generally what's coming, no amount of player outrage on the test server will change that, especially when it's not unanimous.

Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I could have sworn we were told something about "We're going to remove NPC spawns from these sites", yet they still spawn on failure.

Now, I don't have a big problem. My Probe can fit a sufficient tank, field three T2 light drones at a time and I've got enough fittings for two T2 rocket launchers. I can defend myself against the rats that spawn. I'm just curious if they're actually being removed or if someone's mind changed and we weren't told.

PS - The Probe is an amazing ship.

It was said at fanfest that they'd be removed. I think early on into player feedback people complained that removing NPCs entirely made it too easy (this was back during the '8 probe' ranting period) so they were added back in as a failure to hack punishment. Then people that use Covert-Ops frigates for exploration (a perfectly normal thing to do) found they had little to no offensive capabilities. I myself have flown these sites in both a Heron and a Tengu and while the Heron had some hairy moments it was fine. The problems come when it's on TQ and you feel the need for a Covert-Ops cloak in Low and Null but sacrifice bonuses and combat. There is little win- win here. Though chances are someone will come up with the perfect ship and fit within a day of release.

Veyer Erastus wrote:
Finally done a couple of data sites in WH. Was surprised to see NPCs there and even more surprised that i could do WH one's when my skill wasn't enough for low-sec sites. While the hacking mini game was fun, can't say i there is anything fun in what comes next. Clicking furiously on loot containers is kinda dumb. Not to mention it doesn't help group players as there is only so much "useful" containers - more then half was had useless junk, which will only fill your cargo.

Wormhole Data and Relic sites haven't been updated in the recent patches (as far as I know). Even when they are I think it's been stated that the NPCs will remain. It's a risk/reward thing as 'Relic' sites in a class 3 wormhole on TQ can currently net you 100 million isk or more. Removing NPCs but keeping the loot the same would be massively unbalanced.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2013-05-26 17:16:38 UTC
One problem I am facing with the new scatter mechanics: I can't selectively pull in loot thus my cargohold will often be near full because of "useless" stuff. For example the "Power Couplings", 1m^3 each, 56 from a single can. That's 56m^3 of precious space wasted. Maybe have the stuff we manage to grab go into a temporary container?

Currently I will just jettison all my cargo before a new hack attempt, then sort it out, but that seems very suboptimal.

Also, weren't the 0.0 data/relic sites supposed to be finished, too? In Gurista Space, all the cans are on top of each other and upon failing to hack, a rat spawns, saw frigs and cruisers.
Naren Vintas
Some Assembly Required.
#393 - 2013-05-26 17:53:28 UTC
It's been said many times before, but I need to say it myself. Here's my individual feedback on the new "exploring".

Needless to say, I like the idea behind the hacking minigame. It's something new, and has some potential. Although it's not very eve-like. It can get frustrating a bit at times, but overall it's some nice change, for me, personally. There's something in successfully hacking the site. But in the success lies the greatest failure of this new idea: can spewing.

What's wrong with can spewing? Why do I consider it a failure?
- Of all things, it definitely is not enjoyable and feels more like a punishment than reward. You have to click the tiny icons on screen that jump chaotically around and get further and further away from the ship.
- Unlike pretty much everything else clickable in space, these loot cans are the only thing that cannot be added to an overview. This is a major drawback.
- You can't really see whether you are already tracking the can into your bay, or not. You can't really see, whether you can proceed to the next.
- The collision with the environment can make it nigh impossible to actually catch any container. Congratulations! You've hacked tremendously hard site. Now it's going to spew out cans in such way, that you won't catch any of them.
- Loot in these containers is often crap.
- Even should I bring a friend, or a dozen, it will not make it any more pleasant.

I understand that you want to have players do something nicer for a change than just staring at their overview, issuing orbit/approach commands and activating modules. Hacking minigame is actually something that works and can be enjoyable. Alas! believe me, container spewing is not something I am willing to accept. You guys at CCP seem pretty adamant at keeping the mechanic in the game, despite a lot of negative feedback towards it. Please do listen to the players and review the idea from scratch. If you really want to keep it in, make it a failure proc, and not result of a successful hack.

Reducing the amount of cans spewed and/or increasing their lifetime is not going to help either. The whole idea should be scrapped.

I realize that Odyssey deadline is almost here. But I'd rather have one feature less/postponed, than a crappy feature on time.

On a side note: I wouldn't call this "exploring" or "exploration sites". It has nothing to do with exploring, really. Just some treasure hunting. That's what it should be called. Treasure Hunting professions. Definately not Exploration. I don't feel like I'm exploring anything.

That is all from me for now. Hope the feedback comes useful.
Naomi Hale
#394 - 2013-05-26 17:59:41 UTC
@ Naren Vintas - Maybe that's a solution. You successfully hack something you open it like a normal can and get all the loot, fail and you get spew cans (lots of them) and whatever loot you can grab.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.
Energetic Monk
Wayforward Emergent Technologies
#395 - 2013-05-26 18:29:27 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
I've tried a few 'Relic' sites now, spread over high, low and null sec. They've all been salvage and junk. Are there any that contain ancient relics or something, maybe Talocan, Yan Jung and Takmahl. Stuff that, even if its worthless on the market, is mixed in with the salvage, just something to make it feel more like a forgotten relic rather than an ancient, abandon garbage scow?


To get your hands on any of the ancient relics aka Sleepers, Talocan, Yan Yung and Takmahl, you have to go to
regional COSMOS constellation for each empire race.
Tried out the minmatar one in ANI and immediately found out that after analyzing 3 cans and having 30 or so to go,
i'm glad that i've ticked off the hacking part of exploration.
It doesn't even match the tedious process of acanning out 50 sig in a w-space system, it's worse.
To top that off, the can spewing will opens up for an up an coming entrepreneur to have a tanking ship and just zipping
around scoping what the one doing the hacking can't get or reach in time.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#396 - 2013-05-26 18:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Naomi Hale wrote:
Though chances are someone will come up with the perfect ship and fit within a day of release.


Check out the force recon ships, especially Falcon. Has nice slot layout, cloaky, plenty cpu and power to fit to your liking. Under 200m isk. Pilgrim will lose its relevance for profession sites tho if rat removal stays because it doesn't have the mid slots that the others have.
marVLs
#397 - 2013-05-26 19:15:18 UTC
Let's say it honestly: No one will do those sites after Odyssey hits (maybe few times to get frustrated and state it's not worth it and not fun)

Im very disappointed in Odyssey.
Yep it brings some cool features (rebalance, system transitions, upgrades to probe scanning etc), but it fail at it's assumptions - exploration.

I was expecting we get new DED sites, more dynamic and unpredictable. Radar and magneto sites would be something new (and cool, not that bad containers spawn), that we get totally new types of sites, new exploration system with more random content and gameplay, some new areas like going to site where is some magnetic storm and there's a random chance to be created a something like wormhole pass that suck us in and get into random generated pocket with random environment.

Some ideas to that new pocket like systems:
- You get sucked in this anomaly and land near to Red Giant star, shilds are getting em/thermal damage, on-board computer says you got 4mins until star will swells more and destroy You, You looking desperately for exit and see it 60km away, but on other side there's some strange structure, so You have to decide: go examine it and maybe get something or you wont make it in time so You GTFO to exit
- sucked in anomaly and land in as it seems nowhere, suddenly there's a bip sound meaning collision alert, You turn around and see meteorite flying into You, so let's start evasive manuvering procedures or just call it "DAAAAAMN! RUUUUN!" You evade it but now You hear bips like crazy... from darkness of space You see hundrets of meteorites floating into You'r direction, desperately You evading them, and try to salvage wreck of some kind of ship
- land on ancient civilization battlefield, with all that wrecks and traps
- witness center of galaxy
- be abducted by aliens Lol

Generally exploration like it should be - unpredictable, random, sometimes peaceful and quiet, sometimes fast, dangerous, exploration system that makes when You launch those probes You don't know what kind of incredible or terrifying adventure awaits You, but You know one thing it will be something new, maybe even something that You will talk about to other players (or even in RL) for months. Journey/adventure that can give You not even single ISK but what's happened on it will be enought to be satisfied.
I know system like that it's hard to make, hell maybe even incredible hard, but i rather wait for it more and more until You figure it out or come up with that brilliant idea.


And we got what? Every site is the same...
blink alt
Doomheim
#398 - 2013-05-26 19:21:47 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
Check out the force recon ships, especially Falcon. Has nice slot layout, cloaky, plenty cpu and power to fit to your liking. Under 200m isk. Pilgrim will lose its relevance for profession sites tho if rat removal stays because it doesn't have the mid slots that the others have.


I like this idea. However, with the most recent increase in pain in the ass puzzles that are generated makes the role bonus on the t1 scanning frigates quite valuable. Having that extra +10 strength makes a world of difference on those 'difficult' puzzles. It would be nice if the t2 scanning frigates would get such a bonus. Having to comitt a mid to a cargo scanner to speed up completition time is quite annoying as well. Does make me wonder about the despawn mechanics for the sites.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#399 - 2013-05-26 19:32:18 UTC
blink alt wrote:
I like this idea. However, with the most recent increase in pain in the ass puzzles that are generated makes the role bonus on the t1 scanning frigates quite valuable. Having that extra +10 strength makes a world of difference on those 'difficult' puzzles. It would be nice if the t2 scanning frigates would get such a bonus. Having to comitt a mid to a cargo scanner to speed up completition time is quite annoying as well. Does make me wonder about the despawn mechanics for the sites.


You can fit a memetic algoritm bank and a emission scope sharpener on the Falcon to help with the hacking. I get 135 virus coherence and 30 virus strenght with my skills at V. Plenty of medium slots for the new probe mods (no need for grav rigs and ship bonuses on that!). And still room for cargo scanner aswell!
Freyya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2013-05-26 21:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Freyya
Johan Toralen wrote:
blink alt wrote:
I like this idea. However, with the most recent increase in pain in the ass puzzles that are generated makes the role bonus on the t1 scanning frigates quite valuable. Having that extra +10 strength makes a world of difference on those 'difficult' puzzles. It would be nice if the t2 scanning frigates would get such a bonus. Having to comitt a mid to a cargo scanner to speed up completition time is quite annoying as well. Does make me wonder about the despawn mechanics for the sites.


You can fit a memetic algoritm bank and a emission scope sharpener on the Falcon to help with the hacking. I get 135 virus coherence and 30 virus strenght with my skills at V. Plenty of medium slots for the new probe mods (no need for grav rigs and ship bonuses on that!). And still room for cargo scanner aswell!



Rigs need to be fixed, they currently do nothing afaik. Access difficulty bonus has no use anymore since it's not about the chance to open a container anymore. That bonus now needs to go towards strength or coherency.

As for my latest and greatest in the world of SiSi:

made a few bug reports as to relic sites still being messed up. Structures making it impossible to approach, containers still ontop of eachother...(who said they where all fixed again?...)

Don't know if it's intentional but i find that the harder (more exclusively named, not debree or whatever but something along the lines of communications array or whatnot (more important, more loot holding?)) containers carry more anti nodes, less repair or halving nodes and my attack value (lvl 4 on arch/hacking and t1 equipement ofcourse on a proteus) gets cut in half to 10 instead of the 20 i get on less important containers.
Is this intentional or a bug?
When navigating through these harder minigames with more anti nodes an attack value of 10 is just useless since the anti nodes all have 20 or higher. These arn't even nullsec sites but simple lowsec ones, though i haven't yet found any difference between high/low/null.

The spew mechanic is now more manageble. Less cans, little bit less speed and less time to pick them up.
That said, it's now pretty easy to get 8/10 cans and the ones you dont get are the ones labled scrap container. As far as i can tell those are generally pretty useless.
Data containers first, then materials and equipment and lastly scrap. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of franticly getting anything you can no?

While you're looking at the rigs for hacking/archeology for the bonus they give, fix their calibration needs too plz. 200 calibration for t1 and 300 for t2 is just a tiny bit goatballs....my opinion anyways.

btw; glad you changed most of the loot table but the stuff we get that's not the main prize is still either useless, takes up way to much space or is generally not even worth the time it takes to scan. In 4 sites in 8-10 or so systems, i got a max worth of about 12-18 mil, time spent aprox. 1 hour. Not even worth the hassle really

All in all it has improved but i'm failing to see how this expansion can be centered on expedtion when the expedition part has had changes that dont feel like 6 months of improvement to the mechanics.

Spew containers are imho an ill-conceived mechanic that has no place in non-twitch EvE.
Hacking minigame has only seen recent (3 or so weeks) improvements to make it ever so slightly better yet it still remains a non skill intensive click fest based on the randomness of what kind of map you'll be presented
Basic stuff like rigs are not even touched yet though they play an integral part in exploration specialisation of ships.
Ships geared towards exploration (t3 subsystem, the new Gnosis, t2 scanning frigs) have not gotten the bonus to virus strength/coherency like the t1 frig have, and those only in the last week or so. I'd even go as far as to say recon ships should get the bonus too.
New scan probe enhancement modules are all med slot, which so happens to be the home to the relic and data modules aswell. Low med slot amount ships get out of the way. Feels like forcing into multi play eventhough i get you want to promote co-play in exploration. In general it's just not worth the time of 2 or more people, let alone not being worth all the trouble for a single player.

I can imagine it's alot of negativity for something that might have taken alot of work to achieve, it just doesnt feel like that on the end of the line. Considdering what exploration means i feel there could have been done soo much more with the concept than what has been realised so far. For instance; what about all those strange large ship hulls that float around the various missions and sites. Who made em, what did they look like, what kind of tech did they have. All those strange sites with rifts in space, glowing balls of whatever you might call it, stone henges in space, abandoned space stations, radar dishes and all that stuff is just empty filling atm. I would have loved to see all those art assets gain some meaning to the universe. A goal for being there in exploration sites. Why the hell is a broken down ancient terran ship used for all factions across new eden to be a spew container. What do terrans have to do with Sansha, or Serpentis or whomever whatever site you come across. How the hell did ANCIENT terran ships get filled with contemporary tech like BPC's for towers and shield boosters and what not.
It just doesnt fit.

All i envisioned for exploration was to finaly have a means to fully start to grasp the lore to EvE, Talocan, Sleepers and all that stuff. Yes i am dissapoint in the current state of exploration. It's nice it got some attention, i just feel it could have been sooo much more. Compared to Apocrypha for instance (best and most content on alot of fronts added) this just feels like a true patch rather than an expansion. As a positive i do like the new scanner overlay though..