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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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Author
Goran Ashihara
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#201 - 2013-05-24 06:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Goran Ashihara
This is a DAY 3 of my attempts to make the launcher running.

This is the result:

http://s23.postimg.org/4t60nosbf/WTF_01.jpg

What is worse - this is the screen in Chrome and launcher activation (on the same screen) that is the result of NEW installation on computer on witch EVE has NEVER been installed !!!

This means that a NEW player that is starting the EVE in this very moment can't run the game !!!

Old players may whine and complain - but they will still play the game if you fix the problems. People will even look at the forum and find solutions / workarounds for there problems if they are old players and love the game. BUT how the hell do you expect to get new players if YOUR GAME LAUNCHER DOES NOT WORK when the game is installed FOR THE FIRST TIME !!!
UghUghUghUghUghUghUghUgh

Another thing. Would you multi-account / multi box / multi computer / installation ... (i don't even know what to call you) STOP cluttering this Discussion with complaints about not being in position to switch between tour accounts in under 10 sec !!!

There are people, a ALOT OF PEOPLE who can't get to our accounts and are still launcher-offline !

YOU have problems with performace, WE have problem with functionality !
YOU are making a fuss over details - WE can;t even do the basics !!!

What is more important ?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#202 - 2013-05-24 06:37:14 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.

Personally, I run multiple installs via junctions to maintain different sets of settings for each install. In my case, the base install is max graphics while the junction is minimal.

This gives me the ability to quickly choose between the two sets of settings for each client I launch, considering that my priorities depends on the number of accounts I am going to be logging in and what I am going to be doing with them (spinning in station or getting into an Asakai-level fight).

Exactly. If the ability to store, manage, maintain, migrate, modify, whatever with your settings is handled in the EVE Launcher, then there only need exist one underlying installation. I know work was done to enable texture sharing between instances, and having them running the same executable (not just a copy of the same executable) would encourage this, leading to overall better performance for multiboxers, less space used on the hard disk (although I admit this is negligible for those using junctions or symlinks) and the ability to move between computers easily and take your settings with you.


i couldn't think of anything worse than having to pick settings for accounts using a launcher each time i swap alts.

currently there is no need to pick them, there already saved on my pc, just how i want and like them. if i swap to my back up rig, all my settings are already saved there, of course it has different ones as its my 'old' rig but it already knows what they are, saved by the magic of there hard drives.

i have no performance issues currently, well unless i use the launcher, as when i do i need 8 open clients and apparently 8 open launchers so i can swap alts on those accounts.

ive said this before, you reasoning behind making us use this launcher is wrong. and you should have been doing this Q&A session way before you rolled this PITA out

OMG when can i get a pic here

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#203 - 2013-05-24 06:43:11 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
can we still bypass the launcher using the bin folder eve.exe?

as I only want the game client on my pc. I do not want some bloated sales tool

You can, yes. The old login method still exists for the moment, however with login moved into the EVE Launcher then the concept of the old login screen simply doesn't make sense.

pmchem wrote:
What is the response of CCP to the concept of the login screen being iconic art?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3070688#post3070688

Iconic art, and an excellent new player experience, which is now gone.

I agree that the old login screen was iconic, and I understand the passion with which many people have objected to it's deprecation. We've been discussing this quite extensively amongst the teams involved and we have some ideas that mesh with the move of login to the EVE Launcher and the desire to have an immersive experience akin to the current one.

Somebody posted some pretty tantalising ideas/concept art for a revamped character screen that were very intriguing; maybe someone with better forum search skills than I can find them and repost the link.Smile


Heh, i missed this one. Didn't expcted that the concept would catch up with devs that fast.

This was the original idea and my reasonings for it:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3070414#post3070414

i'm glad someone catched up and made it "visual" with that awesome concept art.

Thank you for considering it, the expansion-themed login screen was a part of our EVE experience for many years and its sudden demise came up unexpected and left the game a bit soul-less.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#204 - 2013-05-24 06:57:50 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Mithril Ryder wrote:
I see PL is being mature as usual.

In all seriousness, this was a huge, huge (censored) of a deployment.

Any sort of new login method needs to support the following, natively, with nothing more complicated then your average eve player could be expected to figure out.

Multiple clients rapidly launched from a single install.

Multiple clients from more then one install location, while maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Multiple clients using junction links (simlinks for you *nix dudes :) ), also maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Any sort of cloud based settings storage *must* respect the fact that if I am logging into another machine (such as a laptop) it is possible that I want the same settings, but absolutely not the expectation. To that end, I propose the following:

The first time you log in for a given machine and install path combo, save that config info to the cloud as a non blocking background task by default.

When logging in on a new machine, where the install path is the same, don't import/use the cloud settings for that install path. If there is any local config use that, otherwise use eve defaults.

On the login screen have a checkbox "use default settings for this install from the cloud", when checked prompt the user "are you sure? existing settings will be replaced by the default cloud settings for this install path!"

On the in-game settings page, have an indication if the current client is in sync with the cloud, and if it is currently set as the default. Have a button to save the settings from that client as the default for that install path, have a confirmation prompt of course.

Once that is working, allow the cloud settings to also save more then the default. (use a randomly generated GUID stored locally in the launcher directory to track when you log in from a new computer). Allow the user to name each "computer" or "set", but assign defaults for speed.

On the login screen, have a "settings management" that opens up a list of your computers, where the settings for each install path can be set as default, or cloned between computers. If possible, separate things that are more hardware dependent (screen resolution, graphics settings) and universal (chat channels open, over view settings).

Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


I have 2 separate installations, because when you screw up one, I can fall back on the other.
Maraner
The Executioners
#205 - 2013-05-24 07:05:50 UTC
I could log in yesterday, now I can't

The patching process has locked up on my machine.

**** you guys. Seriously, do you not ever learn from anything. If I ran the area I work in like this people would be dead.

I am paying for this and you can't even test your **** before you roll it out, despite as always warnings from the community in feedback not to roll it out.

You are absolutely blind to the lessons of the past as usual. Oh and creating a new thread when your not liking what your seeing is getting really old.

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#206 - 2013-05-24 07:06:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


It's FUNDAMENTAL that there's a mechanism to store per computer unique settings.

Feasibility: you can do it, because you already fingerprint the clients and you can use it as "hash code" / index to look up for sets of settings.

Why do it: because many, MANY of us have these super common use cases:

Use case 1:

Computer at home, computer at work / school / relatives.

Use case 2:

Multiple computers at home and the same accounts sometimes need to run on one computer, other times on another(s).



Typically, whereas a majority will only play 1-2 accounts on the same computer forever, many multi-accounters (read: those who pay CCP more) have a variety of computers to run EvE on.

I have 5 computers at home, all with EvE installed. I also have one notebook at the office to play EvE during lunch break (here they last hours Ugh) and a netbook for the same task.

At home I may play 4 clients on my main rig (very powerful) at high graphics settings for "top level" EvE game play but also to do refresh Planetary Interaction on 106 planets (one hundred six) and this is best done in a computer that is fast and detailed graphics.

Some days I will play 2 clients on that computer and 4 on another.

Other days I need to play 1 account (say PvE / PVP) + 1 Orca booster character and on another computer 2 mining alts and on another computer another 2-3.

Other days I need to trade the EvE markets and I fire up the clients on less power expensive laptops maybe while doing PvE on the powerful computer and mining on less powerful computers.

Other days I play another MMO plus Orca booster on main computer and miners on laptops or another less powerful computer.


In any case, limit my freedom once again by removing many years old intelligent and versatile features and my 6 subs will be immediately gone. As obvious consequence I'll also have to abandon my open source EvE softwares and offcial EvE fan website.

It's not a treat or anything, it'll be just an obvious consequence at having been made impossible to play EvE in a moving and shifting world we live in.

In fact I can't configure a one-size-fits-all when one computer is a MONSTER, another is average, a powerful notebook has its different screen size, transparencies etc. etc, the nebook obviously has baseline settings tuned for memory saving and performance.



Edit:

If you will ignore this unexpected users need (we see you missed this possibility and it's worrysome to see so) then get ready for a beating and sh!tstorm that WILL make these days threadnoughs look sweet and educate in comparison.

MANY advanced users including many null sec players with lots of accounts are in my same situation.

I see somehow you guys did not "get" this and this WILL cost a lot to implement since it appears you had no plans to address multi-config. But ignoring it and blindly going ahead will.... ehm.... put you in a situation I don't envy the least. Really. Really.


+ 100000000000000000
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#207 - 2013-05-24 07:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Cevin North wrote:
Atropos,

i know you do not support Linux (anymore) and that CCP only loves the bigger brands being Apple and Windows. That is not my problem, your client works fine for what i want to play in EVE and i do not mind not having to walk in stations, as that was a part of the game i did not like anyways because it is not usefull to my gameplay.




Actually - and this shows how CCP's mentality is part of the problem - CCP employees should NEVER dare to say that CCP "does not support XYZ", because they should show respect to those feeding their meals.

The day EvE won't work in Linux any more, it won't be CCP who don't support Linux users, but it will be Linux Customers who stop supporting CCP.

Let's get the fact straight. The one financially on the receiving end of their own failures here, are not the Linux players, but CCP and their choices.

"I cut my needed arms to stop giving you guys your optional entertrainment!" shows the ridicolousness of their statements.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#208 - 2013-05-24 07:16:14 UTC
I don't want new art when I login, I want a fix to corporate roles.

I don't like the new launcher, as you've made it difficult to manage my accounts.

I don't want to lose the old login screen from the game nor do I want to lose the "Logout" button. This has always made switching accounts very easy to do when I need to quickly manage my toons and their PI.

You're making the game almost unplayable for people like me and the other roughly 60% of Eve players with more than one account:


Obunagawe wrote:
Atropos, do you realise that the launcher leaks memory horribly after you've closed it? Closing and reopening the launcher 10 times will result in 10 dead processes using a total of over 1GB RAM to do precisely nothing.

Just another bad thing to add to the list.



Precisely how should we submit a bug report for this when we're not even IN THE GAME whilst this happens? Would you like screenshots of our Task Manager? Or better yet, see the next quote below ......



Rommiee wrote:
Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,






Stop.

Stop right now and take the time to read what we're telling you. We're trying to help you but many of us have grown tired of this mindset that CCP has when it comes to rolling out bad upgrades.

We want fixes to the game that MEAN something to the players, like the modular POS or fixing corp roles. Stuff that clearly needs to be upgraded but you guys avoid like it's the plague.

We don't want the apologies, the freebie gifts to silence us, the lack of good upgrades to a fantastic game that actually will help your customers.

We want proper fixes.

We want to help you, but you snub your noses at us when we do tell you something's broke during testing and push it to production regardless.



This has to stop.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#209 - 2013-05-24 07:22:49 UTC
Lord Haur wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
On that point, why is it trying to save it's settings into Program Files in the first place?



It's not.
*snip*

Funny you say that. CCP Atropos begs to differ
CCP Atropos wrote:
The EVE Launcher will try to save the settings to a yaml file located in it's cache folder, which is inside the launcher folder in your EVE installation.


I suggest you look in %PROGRAMFILES(X86)%\CCP\EVE\launcher\cache



Huh. Missed that one.

Not a fan. Writing to there should require a UAC elevation.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#210 - 2013-05-24 07:24:17 UTC
CCP.....HELLO

Still skipping this question, then.....


Rommiee wrote:
CCP Atropos or any CCP employee, really.....

Still skipping this question of why do you do what is outlined below, then ?


Rommiee wrote:
So... would you like to answer the question that pretty much everyone has been asking over the last couple of days, but you have avoided :

Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,

Taizemi Cyosira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#211 - 2013-05-24 07:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Taizemi Cyosira
Holy Fcuk!

4 days now and I can't reliably log-in to eve. Why the **** do I play this game?

First patch process did absolutely NOTHING.

This time, I manage to get the workaround to actually launch the damn login screen again and am told there is a new patch.

"oh CCP finally fixed this" I thought, turns out it does the exact same thing it did before.

Except here is the added bonus, now I can't even use the workaround because every time I do, it says there's a fuckin update, even when it applies it, even when I do a fresh reinstall of EVE, the same fuckin update keeps popping up, saying to download and run and it does nothing....so that was supposed to fix this? The **** CCP, what the ****!

Furthermore and even more frustrating is that you continue to break **** that isn't broken. The old launcher while annoying was tolerable, this new one doesn't even launch and even crashes the computer in what seems to be a perpetual memory leak when it fails to open.

Fix your ****!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#212 - 2013-05-24 07:33:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Actually - and this shows how CCP's mentality is part of the problem - CCP employees should NEVER dare to say that CCP "does not support XYZ", because they should show respect to those feeding their meals.


So if I were to complain that I couldn't get Eve working on my graphic calculator, someone working for CCP can't say 'we don't support that'?



"does not support" - You're on your own.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#213 - 2013-05-24 07:34:21 UTC
Taizemi Cyosira wrote:
Holy ****!

4 days now and I can't reliably log-in to eve. Why the **** do I play this game?

First patch process did absolutely NOTHING.

This time, I manage to get the workaround to actually launch the damn login screen again and am told there is a new patch.

"oh CCP finally fixed this" I thought, turns out it does the exact same thing it did before.

Except here is the added bonus, now I can't even use the workaround because every time I do, it says there's a fuckin update, the same fuckin update that was supposed to fix this.

Furthermore and even more frustrating is that you continue to break **** that isn't broken. The old launcher while annoying was tolerable, this new one doesn't even launch and even crashes the computer in what seems to be a perpetual memory leak when it fails to open.

Fix your ****!


Have you tried the repair tool?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Taizemi Cyosira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-05-24 07:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Taizemi Cyosira
Repair tool, fresh install, the updater doesn't show up at all on normal launching and using the workaround to the direct executeable now says there's an update to download, the same one that has been downloaded 10 times now by launching the executeable and it still does nothing.


Update:

If anyone is having the same issue as me, spamming the repair tool five times (checking after each one) FINALLY made it possible to access the game by the executeable, the launcher however is still ******.
Tuukka Echerie
Lurkers and Miners Unlimited
#215 - 2013-05-24 07:56:01 UTC
In my point of view, I don't need any lauchers. I want to play, not see any laucher with I have to login and start the game separately.

Remove the laucher totally and finally, please.
Niding
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#216 - 2013-05-24 08:04:08 UTC
The launcher still doesnt remember all my characters and accounts.

And its slow to load up several accounts if you want them online within seconds; which was easy and quick
with the old launcher.

Atm Im using the EXEFile method I suspect the majority with multiple accounts are using aswell, and it works perfectly
for me.

Do NOT remove the ability to use the EXEfile UNTIL you have adressed the issues regarding multiple account launching.
Just to remove any doubt; you are currently not even remotely close to that point yet.

When Punkturis made the new Inventory system it was a disaster, but over time Its been improved, so its not like I dont have confidence in you eventually sorting out the new launcher system.

BUT atm you CAN NOT remove the ability to use EXEfile or it will make the gameexpirience for heavy mulitple account CUSTOMERS extremely annoying. And I assume its not your goal to annoy paying customers...
Luscius Uta
#217 - 2013-05-24 08:06:49 UTC
What is this "intense" skill training CCP Guard mentioned on the first page? How do you train skills non-intensively, or why would you do it?
But thanks for the free SP anyway :)

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#218 - 2013-05-24 08:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
CCP Cascade wrote:


So... to the big question: What have we done to support multiboxing:

1. You can make the Launcher only appear when there is an update by selecting that under the startup tab in the settings for the Launcher. That means that the EVE client will start just like it did before, unless there is an update. This is good for those who have installs in multiple locations.

2. Those who have multiple installs or multiple computers at home; You can use the patch import/export feature to import and export patches between installs and computers. Check out the export/import section here

3. If you want to start multiple clients you can just click "Play" again and it will start a new client instance. If you don't want the Launcher to stay after the client is started, you can set this in the settings menu.

How does this sound?.



That sounds like something i could really use to keep multiboxing tbh.

This CCP staff member discussed with multiboxers how they used there clients and actually implemented features to help us prior to implementing the launcher.

CCP Atropos - can we get these features (back) please.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#219 - 2013-05-24 08:24:55 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
.
Do you have metrics for how many log in with the launcher, compared to those who do it without?

Will CCP repair the launcher (at least to former usability) before or after you remove the ability to start the game (bin/ExeFile)?

Can we assume that SiSi testing will have as much effect in the future as it had here?

Is it irresponsible to post that "[our] voices have been heard loud and clear and [you] been busy taking notes so [you]'d like to ask [us] to help [you] move forward (...)" -- each summer in 3 years, due to releasing bugs in beta to the live servers?

Would you say that CCP should have released the new launcher, if they had known the effects?
Adding to my list of questions:
How long do you think the warning will be when you remove bin/ExeFile?

Should we cancel our accounts now, or does your notes tell you that you entirely ****ed up for the 3rd summer in row?

Given the almost 3k angry posts over 2 official threads (+ all the unofficial), do you recognise problems with the design itself of the launcher?

If you look at customer trust in the company, do you think this adds to or subtracts from that amount of trust?
Steijn
Quay Industries
#220 - 2013-05-24 08:25:01 UTC
MaRU2760 133 wrote:
Okay. It's obvious that CCP Atropos is only going to respond to questions with limited relevance.

I've dealt with CCP before, so I know that, since she doesn't respond to me, that my concerns are relevant.

It warms my heart to see that nothing has changed at CCP since I started playing.

Not expecting a response: Atropos, do you have a plan or not?


I disagree. Whilst we might not be getting the replies that we expect or want, CCP Atropos is at least very active in this thread which has not always been the norm for CCP.