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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#181 - 2013-05-24 00:33:39 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.

Personally, I run multiple installs via junctions to maintain different sets of settings for each install. In my case, the base install is max graphics while the junction is minimal.

This gives me the ability to quickly choose between the two sets of settings for each client I launch, considering that my priorities depends on the number of accounts I am going to be logging in and what I am going to be doing with them (spinning in station or getting into an Asakai-level fight).

Exactly. If the ability to store, manage, maintain, migrate, modify, whatever with your settings is handled in the EVE Launcher, then there only need exist one underlying installation. I know work was done to enable texture sharing between instances, and having them running the same executable (not just a copy of the same executable) would encourage this, leading to overall better performance for multiboxers, less space used on the hard disk (although I admit this is negligible for those using junctions or symlinks) and the ability to move between computers easily and take your settings with you.



Here's a corner case for you: one account under Steam, one not. How would you handle that?
MaRU2760 133
Unit 439
#182 - 2013-05-24 00:57:16 UTC
Okay. It's obvious that CCP Atropos is only going to respond to questions with limited relevance.

I've dealt with CCP before, so I know that, since she doesn't respond to me, that my concerns are relevant.

It warms my heart to see that nothing has changed at CCP since I started playing.

Not expecting a response: Atropos, do you have a plan or not?
Rengerel en Distel
#183 - 2013-05-24 01:34:22 UTC
MaRU2760 133 wrote:
Okay. It's obvious that CCP Atropos is only going to respond to questions with limited relevance.

I've dealt with CCP before, so I know that, since she doesn't respond to me, that my concerns are relevant.

It warms my heart to see that nothing has changed at CCP since I started playing.

Not expecting a response: Atropos, do you have a plan or not?


Seems a lot of people are expecting answers many hours after CCP has left for the night.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#184 - 2013-05-24 02:16:24 UTC
Lord Haur wrote:
On that point, why is it trying to save it's settings into Program Files in the first place?



It's not.

Look in:

C:\Users\< your user name>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE

You'll find a few directories.

They'll match the names of the directories from which you run eve. Such as:

c_program_files_(x86)_ccp_eve_tranquility


What happened was it normally itself running from:
c:\program files (x86)\ccp\eve

So that's where it keeps its settings.

After the launcher update it saw itself running from:
c:\progra~1\ccp\eve

which didn't match any existing settings directories, so it created a new one.

The directories are functionally identical, but not the same path. And it's the exact path that eve uses.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#185 - 2013-05-24 02:29:09 UTC
MaRU2760 133 wrote:
Okay. It's obvious that CCP Atropos is only going to respond to questions with limited relevance.

I've dealt with CCP before, so I know that, since she doesn't respond to me, that my concerns are relevant.

It warms my heart to see that nothing has changed at CCP since I started playing.

Not expecting a response: Atropos, do you have a plan or not?



'I didn't get an answer, so obviously they're avoiding answering my very important question.'

Nice logic.


Anyway, here's a thought:

It's not just about making our lives easier. It's about reducing code complexity. I'm not a dev, but I do work in the industry.

Anywhere there is user input, there's risk, which needs to be coded round. So by eliminating the log in screen, and tying it to a log in system that's being maintained for other systems as well (all the websites), you get to share the cost of maintenance, which means you can spend that time elsewhere.

Aside from that it should mean we can switch between alts on the same account, without needing to log in again.



That's not to say more work isn't needed. I'd love to have the ability to create sets of settings, which I can pick, when I launch a particular user. And have multiple users logged into the launcher at the same time.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
#186 - 2013-05-24 02:34:27 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
[I encountered one player at Fanfest who had two installations and kept them on separate drives for apparent performance reasons, and another player who had more than a dozen full copies of the game to handle the individual settings profiles.


So basically, you listen to "whales" and expect the rest of the community to like it. If you pulled a rabbit out your arse, there's a pretty high chance the whales would like it - they are your most ardent fans.

EVE players are generally mature, internet savvy computer literate, dedicated gamers; at least the ones I play with are. I didn't go to fanfest because I'm a gamer and as nice as having a beer with you guys would be I'd rather be playing the game.

We're not being whiney arsed entitled brats here. You've rolled out a feature incomplete launcher with major issues in functionality, and possible future issues with security and privacy issues (which look about 95% likely given the stuff I've read so far) that aren't what users like me want. By the look of things, this isn't what anyone wanted apart from you guys.You wanted incarna, we didn't. You want this, WE DON'T. it's my opinion that whales are at an evolutionary dead end regarding game development and as pretty as their voices sound they should not be listened to as the majority voice.

We had something that worked, now it's broken. Okay, I'll accept there was a need for some need for another way of logging in to fit in with that game made for a console that will be extinct in months. That's what you wanted - an advantage for you, not us. I certainly didn't ask for google products to be installed on my PC either because they've a long history of totally disrespecting the privacy of their users.

You had my trust and now you've lost it. You lost it for little better reason than "you could."

Good game CCP - you win.
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-05-24 02:45:42 UTC

Sorry this is 145 pages later between the two forum threads but:...

...It would be very helpful if

1. Launcher could remember passwords as an option. My browsers let me do that and that's very convenient. Yes, there is a security concern, but, it's on me, not on you. This eliminates a bunch of clicks in addition to and cut/paste password every time which while not so bothersome with a single account, becomes exponentially tedious as the number of accounts increase.

2. Once launcher remembers passwords and can edit/add/remove stored accounts, each remembered account can have an associated launch button. I can scroll to the account I want to start, click launch and I'm there.

3. It would work equally well in my book to add a couple of command line options to the launcher exe as I posted in the old thread - to tell the launcher what account to launch. Adding a /username accnt_name /password super_secret command line options, would go a long way streamlining the startup of multiple clients: it allows me to create as many shortcuts as I have accounts, and add the command line params to tell the launcher what I want to launch. This is double click goodness with moar speed and a lot less clickety click. The downside is that the passwords would be in the clear. So another idea would be to use the API key / token to get a new role that lets me use API credentials or token instead to start my client.

Just sayin'
bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#188 - 2013-05-24 02:51:17 UTC
So I guess my earlier post about how you can break the launcher with a double-click and a keystroke wasn't relevant?
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2013-05-24 03:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
CCP Atropos wrote:
*snip*
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.

I use junctions because of the very user-friendly and customizable scenario of being able to set up shortcuts in my Win7 start menu for each client. This makes for an insanely fast means for launching each client w/o having to fiddle with a launcher UI. There is no substitute for such a direct way of launching multiple clients w/o any extra launcher-based overhead.

I look at the current Launcher and I am baffled on how to log into the game... until I visually ID the credential fields and the log-in button.

At the very least, please place a far greater visual emphasis onto the login credential fields and log in button.

I serious cringe at what is to come with the Launcher and opening up multiple clients simultaneously.

Troubleshooting / Bug:

Repeated attempts to launch a client via the \bin\exefile.exe w/in the past 2 hours resulted in successive attempts by the client and updating mechanism to install some new update / patch. But the updates kept failing (with no obvious error message) until I ran the repair.exe tool.

[edits: fixing late night grammar / engrish]

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Oraac Ensor
#190 - 2013-05-24 03:14:04 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Aside from that it should mean we can switch between alts on the same account, without needing to log in again.

Provided, of course , that we actually have a launcher.

I'm guessing that I'm not alone in not having one.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-05-24 03:16:03 UTC
ITT: CCP learns that makegoods transform goats into heroes.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#192 - 2013-05-24 03:23:41 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
On that point, why is it trying to save it's settings into Program Files in the first place?



It's not.
*snip*

Funny you say that. CCP Atropos begs to differ
CCP Atropos wrote:
The EVE Launcher will try to save the settings to a yaml file located in it's cache folder, which is inside the launcher folder in your EVE installation.


I suggest you look in %PROGRAMFILES(X86)%\CCP\EVE\launcher\cache
Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-05-24 03:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeronic
CCP Atropos wrote:
Mithril Ryder wrote:
I see PL is being mature as usual.

In all seriousness, this was a huge, huge (censored) of a deployment.

Any sort of new login method needs to support the following, natively, with nothing more complicated then your average eve player could be expected to figure out.

Multiple clients rapidly launched from a single install.

Multiple clients from more then one install location, while maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Multiple clients using junction links (simlinks for you *nix dudes :) ), also maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Any sort of cloud based settings storage *must* respect the fact that if I am logging into another machine (such as a laptop) it is possible that I want the same settings, but absolutely not the expectation. To that end, I propose the following:

The first time you log in for a given machine and install path combo, save that config info to the cloud as a non blocking background task by default.

When logging in on a new machine, where the install path is the same, don't import/use the cloud settings for that install path. If there is any local config use that, otherwise use eve defaults.

On the login screen have a checkbox "use default settings for this install from the cloud", when checked prompt the user "are you sure? existing settings will be replaced by the default cloud settings for this install path!"

On the in-game settings page, have an indication if the current client is in sync with the cloud, and if it is currently set as the default. Have a button to save the settings from that client as the default for that install path, have a confirmation prompt of course.

Once that is working, allow the cloud settings to also save more then the default. (use a randomly generated GUID stored locally in the launcher directory to track when you log in from a new computer). Allow the user to name each "computer" or "set", but assign defaults for speed.

On the login screen, have a "settings management" that opens up a list of your computers, where the settings for each install path can be set as default, or cloned between computers. If possible, separate things that are more hardware dependent (screen resolution, graphics settings) and universal (chat channels open, over view settings).

Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


The Eve Client is not smart enough to use different setting for different Log ins, so we have a workaround for that. By creating creating virtual Eve Client folders, we make separate Eve Setting for each account. Which enable US to adjust video and audio setting per account.

Main reason for different setting per account is so I don't have to adjust my Eve Video setting each time I log in. I fire up a eve client and it goes straight to the monitor that it should be running on and with the correct resolution. I have 6 monitor and I could have 12 if wished.

Source: Asus EAH6970 DCII2DI4S2GD5

AMD Eyefinity Technology

Unlocks the power of GPU’s processor cores to accelerate the most demanding system tasks

SIX monitors output for the win!

Exclusive 6 monitors output via 2 DVI & 4 DisplayPort Output.
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#194 - 2013-05-24 04:04:26 UTC
I was very angry about the lost SP but now everything is dandy :)

:D

Thank you so very much, it is sincerely appreciated.

I very much value that you recognized publicly that there was a mistake made, and that you are rectifying it in a very generious and civil manner.

Thanks again!!

DZ
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#195 - 2013-05-24 04:21:17 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
can we still bypass the launcher using the bin folder eve.exe?

as I only want the game client on my pc. I do not want some bloated sales tool

You can, yes. The old login method still exists for the moment, however with login moved into the EVE Launcher then the concept of the old login screen simply doesn't make sense.

pmchem wrote:
What is the response of CCP to the concept of the login screen being iconic art?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3070688#post3070688

Iconic art, and an excellent new player experience, which is now gone.

I agree that the old login screen was iconic, and I understand the passion with which many people have objected to it's deprecation. We've been discussing this quite extensively amongst the teams involved and we have some ideas that mesh with the move of login to the EVE Launcher and the desire to have an immersive experience akin to the current one.

Somebody posted some pretty tantalising ideas/concept art for a revamped character screen that were very intriguing; maybe someone with better forum search skills than I can find them and repost the link.Smile

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3072465#post3072465

Better one found by some one else is
Here ya go (this one looks awesome, if you guys could get the render time fast on the avatars:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8191191887_8975bc2833_o.png

From this post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3056173#post3056173



YES.

YES.

YES.

In every way YES. It almost makes you wonder how this wasn't done already!
Socks the Fox
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2013-05-24 04:39:24 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
During tomorrow's downtime we will add 50.000 skillpoints (representing roughly a day’s worth of intense skill training) to the character with the highest number of skill points on each active account (the presumed main).


Dang, my indy alt that I don't want any more SP on is 800k more than my PVP alt where all my actual training is happening :(
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-05-24 04:53:18 UTC
It's been said several times, but it's worth saying again: the new launcher is absolutely atrocious for anyone wanting to run multiple clients. It is counter-intuitive, slow, bulky, and unnecessary (kinda like CQs!).

Please don't make the same mistake again, CCP.
Socks the Fox
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2013-05-24 05:04:57 UTC
Going through the thread I like the idea of giving the SP to the last character on an account to receive SP rather than the character with the highest SP. I'm sure this better aligns with the needs of those who lost training time to the issues. I personally had a long-term skill in my queue so I didn't lose the SP, but if someone who did lose SP got shafted again because the "lost" SP got sent to a different character I can imagine the "thanks but no thanks" attitude.

If we could redeem the bonus SP like we do for gifts and purchased things that would be ideal, but I can imagine that would be really complicated to implement on such short notice.
Finde learth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2013-05-24 05:21:03 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Steijn wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


Im sorry but i find that question simply staggering. It basically shows the customer base that maybe not all, but certainly some of CCP, have no idea just how this game is played.

In case it wasn't clear, I do know why people run multiple accounts, I was more interested in whether or not he had any reasons beyond having different settings. I encountered one player at Fanfest who had two installations and kept them on separate drives for apparent performance reasons, and another player who had more than a dozen full copies of the game to handle the individual settings profiles.

In the current architecture, multiple installations are required for the ability to have multiple different settings profiles. I want to remove this requirement (to have a second installation/copy/whatever) and just allow specific support for it, with the only reason you have a second installation being that you want to access the test server, something that I also want to improve support for, within the EVE Launcher.


Before you have done it, Don't Don't Don't release the new lancher.
Cevin North
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
#200 - 2013-05-24 05:52:48 UTC
Atropos,

i know you do not support Linux (anymore) and that CC{ only loves the bigger brands being Apple and Windows. That is not my problem, your client works fine for what i want to play in EVE and i do not mind not having to walk in stations, as that was a part of the game i did not like anyways because it is not usefull to my gameplay.


The only thing that currently keeps us Linux users happy is your ancient launcher from the past that keeps working without hickups. The same launcher that is currently saving " your behind" on many occasions to fix problems someone made whilst coding that did not show on SiSi.

You do know that your own Eula " as explained in a dev blog" forbids people to change, modify, or add code to the gameplay of EVE, yet you tell me to go look into doing something your Eula does clearly not allow?

All i asked for is that you do not break the ability of Linux users to login to the game, aka " do not break what is not broken" without giving us a solution to code our own way.


As far as i know youve done that in the past.. Why not continue that in the present and future? Perhaps we could even get walking in stations fixed, if we knew what is going wrong with that. (it worked before)