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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#101 - 2013-05-23 21:03:37 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
RadicalOne wrote:
1) start the new launcher
2) type in account name or select account name from drop down
3) type in password
4) press Enter (At this point i have indicated my intention to login with the credentials provided in 2) and 3) above)

5) Click on the 'PLAY' button (and i do mean click, the enter key doesnt work)

Step 5) above is completely pointless ! as already stated the user has indicated thier intention to login at step 4)
I can see why you (CCP) probably didnt make the "PLAY" button work by pressing the Enter Key. The user would need to press Enter twice lolz. But instead the user has to move the mouse to click on the "PLAY" button.
Any UI developer can see this is not an optimal design. Making the user stop and click on a button (without key shortcut) after the user has already told you what thier intentions are is completely pointless !

Please explain what purpose this "PLAY" button serves that out-weights the inconvience of extra clicks ? is this a UI login barrier for BOTS ? or just a shiney shiney button with extra clicks thrown in for the lolz ?

We decoupled the act of logging in from the act of entering the EVE Universe. You can now login whilst the updating of your client is ongoing, then choose when to enter the universe itself.

If you look at the webpage that's currently deployed to Singularity you will see that we've already added an auto play button so that if the client is ready, you will automatically start the game when it's ready and you've logged in.

As for the focusing, that's probably something I should fix, since it's most likely the EVE Launcher application not assigned focus properly. I'll follow this up.


it needs to assign focus on the password (ive stated this many times in the sisi feedback over a week ago.)
the options need to be able to tabbed through. so shift tab from password to account name. tab from password to enter/launch

OMG when can i get a pic here
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#102 - 2013-05-23 21:05:43 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
(ive stated this many times in the sisi feedback over a week ago.)


LOL, you know they ignore all that, right ?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#103 - 2013-05-23 21:08:56 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
(ive stated this many times in the sisi feedback over a week ago.)


LOL, you know they ignore all that, right ?


yeh, but its very nice to say I told you so. although Id rather they would actually pay attention to constructive feedback before they wreck my eve any bloody more than this launcher has

OMG when can i get a pic here
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#104 - 2013-05-23 21:09:09 UTC
AT LEAST INCREASE THE CACHE SIZE ON THE LAUNCHER FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORE THAN 7 ACCOUNTS


@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#105 - 2013-05-23 21:10:20 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Salpun wrote:
I am more concerned with the ghost launchers populating my computer Twisted

CCP needs more Web Devs for sure.


I too am getting Ghost Launcher processes on my WIN XP computer. It seems that CCP is ignoring both of our concerns and is more interested in providing social media support and throwing out 50k SP as hush money than actually addressing our concerns.
What say you CCP? Can we expect the promised SSO functionality on the new launcher, or at least the ability of the launcher to stop all it's processes when we close it?

I'm currently updating one of the opening posts with current known issues and this is one of them. I can only post in one place at a time though Smile

Edit: regarding the SSO functionality you've asked about before: I replied to you here.

The issues I was having on sisi possible with this issue was with a Win7 machine.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
mrpapageorgio
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#106 - 2013-05-23 21:10:25 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
RadicalOne wrote:
1) start the new launcher
2) type in account name or select account name from drop down
3) type in password
4) press Enter (At this point i have indicated my intention to login with the credentials provided in 2) and 3) above)

5) Click on the 'PLAY' button (and i do mean click, the enter key doesnt work)

Step 5) above is completely pointless ! as already stated the user has indicated thier intention to login at step 4)
I can see why you (CCP) probably didnt make the "PLAY" button work by pressing the Enter Key. The user would need to press Enter twice lolz. But instead the user has to move the mouse to click on the "PLAY" button.
Any UI developer can see this is not an optimal design. Making the user stop and click on a button (without key shortcut) after the user has already told you what thier intentions are is completely pointless !

Please explain what purpose this "PLAY" button serves that out-weights the inconvience of extra clicks ? is this a UI login barrier for BOTS ? or just a shiney shiney button with extra clicks thrown in for the lolz ?

We decoupled the act of logging in from the act of entering the EVE Universe. You can now login whilst the updating of your client is ongoing, then choose when to enter the universe itself.

If you look at the webpage that's currently deployed to Singularity you will see that we've already added an auto play button so that if the client is ready, you will automatically start the game when it's ready and you've logged in.

As for the focusing, that's probably something I should fix, since it's most likely the EVE Launcher application not assigned focus properly. I'll follow this up.


The only reason to log in currently is to enter the eve universe, so the play button is 100% pointless at this point. And I can go ahead and tell you, the only reason I am ever going to log in is to enter the eve universe. I don't care about eve tv, eve voice, or using the launcher to log into the forums or whatever else you guys think up to tack on.

I don't know if it's a bug, but I am seriously tired of having to accept the eula every time I log in too.
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#107 - 2013-05-23 21:10:30 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
On the original threadnaught, the first post was by CCP Phantom and he said:
"The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login mechanism which will allow you to log into EVE Online using our SSO (single sign on) service. "

I ran the new launcher, signed on, and entered the game no problems. The launcher was still open, so I gated from the launcher to Account Management and clicked the Login button. My credentials were not passed to account management. I had to enter my name and password manually.
The only non-cosmetic reason for rolling out this disaster of a launcher was to allow the SSO credentials to pass to other Eve websites that use SSO. In your Dev Blog, you specifically mentioned that Account Management was one of the new SSO websited.

Why doesn't the SSO launcher pass my SSO login information to the other SSO websites?



I'm still waiting to find out if the new launcher will indeed provide SSO capability as you claimed it would. Can I expect this promised functionality to be implemented soon?

That depends... I was having an interesting discussion today with CCP karkur, since she was concerned about logging into the EVE Launcher and having it automatically have her logged into the forums when she switched to them. For the moment you can think of it as logging into the Forums with Chrome and expecting your other browser, Firefox say, to know that you're logged in. Such sessions aren't inter-browser compatible by default, and the same is true for the EVE Launcher.



This is incorrect. Eve Launcher and Eve websites are part of the same universe. This is more like Logging into Google Chrome and expecting it to also sign me in to my GMAIL account. Since Google Chrome and GMAIL are both part of google, this works. The same should work for Eve Launcher and Eve Forums.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?
alexxander ref'chenko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-05-23 21:12:55 UTC
i have yet to recieve any skill points,and as i said in the petition i filed i couldnt log in for 6 hours, i patched repatched "repaired" over and over and did the force refresh on the two pages like the wiki says, im suprised i didnt recieve any skill points :/ my launcher still doesnt work i STILL have to use the exefile.exe to login my toons :( and no one can help me fix this it seems im just told to keep doing what ive been doing, repatch repair force refresh repair delete repair....damnit man
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#109 - 2013-05-23 21:13:29 UTC
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
On the original threadnaught, the first post was by CCP Phantom and he said:
"The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login mechanism which will allow you to log into EVE Online using our SSO (single sign on) service. "

I ran the new launcher, signed on, and entered the game no problems. The launcher was still open, so I gated from the launcher to Account Management and clicked the Login button. My credentials were not passed to account management. I had to enter my name and password manually.
The only non-cosmetic reason for rolling out this disaster of a launcher was to allow the SSO credentials to pass to other Eve websites that use SSO. In your Dev Blog, you specifically mentioned that Account Management was one of the new SSO websited.

Why doesn't the SSO launcher pass my SSO login information to the other SSO websites?



I'm still waiting to find out if the new launcher will indeed provide SSO capability as you claimed it would. Can I expect this promised functionality to be implemented soon?

That depends... I was having an interesting discussion today with CCP karkur, since she was concerned about logging into the EVE Launcher and having it automatically have her logged into the forums when she switched to them. For the moment you can think of it as logging into the Forums with Chrome and expecting your other browser, Firefox say, to know that you're logged in. Such sessions aren't inter-browser compatible by default, and the same is true for the EVE Launcher.



This is incorrect. Eve Launcher and Eve websites are part of the same universe. This is more like Logging into Google Chrome and expecting it to also sign me in to my GMAIL account. Since Google Chrome and GMAIL are both part of google, this works. The same should work for Eve Launcher and Eve Forums.


no it should not auto log me in to the forums. I use this alt, one of 24 because I chose it. I don't want the launcher choosing who I rage at ccp with on the forums, that's up to me.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#110 - 2013-05-23 21:15:46 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
veera Haklar wrote:
Any way around the sp going to highest current sp toons on an account, The highest sp toon on my account is certainly not my main, and is infact a character i don't even use anymore, or should i just shut up and be greatfull? :p


I'm really sorry but we don't have a mechanism to allow players to choose which character the skill points go to. The pool is character specific so we have to choose the same criteria for everyone and this is the best criteria overall.
Honestly this and not the character training? That doesn't make any sense. The character training is demonstrating our intent to have that character gain sp. Giving it to the highest doesn't show anything but a past desire for training.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#111 - 2013-05-23 21:17:12 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
On the original threadnaught, the first post was by CCP Phantom and he said:
"The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login mechanism which will allow you to log into EVE Online using our SSO (single sign on) service. "

I ran the new launcher, signed on, and entered the game no problems. The launcher was still open, so I gated from the launcher to Account Management and clicked the Login button. My credentials were not passed to account management. I had to enter my name and password manually.
The only non-cosmetic reason for rolling out this disaster of a launcher was to allow the SSO credentials to pass to other Eve websites that use SSO. In your Dev Blog, you specifically mentioned that Account Management was one of the new SSO websited.

Why doesn't the SSO launcher pass my SSO login information to the other SSO websites?



I'm still waiting to find out if the new launcher will indeed provide SSO capability as you claimed it would. Can I expect this promised functionality to be implemented soon?

That depends... I was having an interesting discussion today with CCP karkur, since she was concerned about logging into the EVE Launcher and having it automatically have her logged into the forums when she switched to them. For the moment you can think of it as logging into the Forums with Chrome and expecting your other browser, Firefox say, to know that you're logged in. Such sessions aren't inter-browser compatible by default, and the same is true for the EVE Launcher.



This is incorrect. Eve Launcher and Eve websites are part of the same universe. This is more like Logging into Google Chrome and expecting it to also sign me in to my GMAIL account. Since Google Chrome and GMAIL are both part of google, this works. The same should work for Eve Launcher and Eve Forums.


no it should not auto log me in to the forums. I use this alt, one of 24 because I chose it. I don't want the launcher choosing who I rage at ccp with on the forums, that's up to me.


Correct. SSO is all very well, but you need to be able to choose which parts of it (if any) are automatically logged on to.
Mithril Ryder
Genstar Inc
#112 - 2013-05-23 21:18:24 UTC
I see PL is being mature as usual.

In all seriousness, this was a huge, huge (censored) of a deployment.

Any sort of new login method needs to support the following, natively, with nothing more complicated then your average eve player could be expected to figure out.

Multiple clients rapidly launched from a single install.

Multiple clients from more then one install location, while maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Multiple clients using junction links (simlinks for you *nix dudes :) ), also maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Any sort of cloud based settings storage *must* respect the fact that if I am logging into another machine (such as a laptop) it is possible that I want the same settings, but absolutely not the expectation. To that end, I propose the following:

The first time you log in for a given machine and install path combo, save that config info to the cloud as a non blocking background task by default.

When logging in on a new machine, where the install path is the same, don't import/use the cloud settings for that install path. If there is any local config use that, otherwise use eve defaults.

On the login screen have a checkbox "use default settings for this install from the cloud", when checked prompt the user "are you sure? existing settings will be replaced by the default cloud settings for this install path!"

On the in-game settings page, have an indication if the current client is in sync with the cloud, and if it is currently set as the default. Have a button to save the settings from that client as the default for that install path, have a confirmation prompt of course.

Once that is working, allow the cloud settings to also save more then the default. (use a randomly generated GUID stored locally in the launcher directory to track when you log in from a new computer). Allow the user to name each "computer" or "set", but assign defaults for speed.

On the login screen, have a "settings management" that opens up a list of your computers, where the settings for each install path can be set as default, or cloned between computers. If possible, separate things that are more hardware dependent (screen resolution, graphics settings) and universal (chat channels open, over view settings).
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#113 - 2013-05-23 21:21:33 UTC
MaRU2760 133 wrote:
The timing of the release announcement would have been fine, if you had also taken the time to QA the application before releasing it.

One of the things that really irritated me on release day was that EveMon was telling me that Tranquility was online and 30,000 characters were active.

My computer isn't special in any way. I'm running Windoze 7 and haven't moved any files, or done anything tricky to Eve. But the new launcher didn't work for me. How is my system different from all those others?

What I expect to see with each new release and upgrade is something that has been tested and will work on more than 90% of the player's computers. It doesn't appear that is what I got, and I was very disappointed,

The question remains, though, "If a significant percentage of the playerbase is still having problems after three days, why didn't you roll it back?" That really seems strange to me.
I was on a Mac and thankfully our launcher "update" was delayed following the Windows guys' release. I don't think all 30,000 were running Mac OS though.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#114 - 2013-05-23 21:21:54 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
On the original threadnaught, the first post was by CCP Phantom and he said:
"The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login mechanism which will allow you to log into EVE Online using our SSO (single sign on) service. "

I ran the new launcher, signed on, and entered the game no problems. The launcher was still open, so I gated from the launcher to Account Management and clicked the Login button. My credentials were not passed to account management. I had to enter my name and password manually.
The only non-cosmetic reason for rolling out this disaster of a launcher was to allow the SSO credentials to pass to other Eve websites that use SSO. In your Dev Blog, you specifically mentioned that Account Management was one of the new SSO websited.

Why doesn't the SSO launcher pass my SSO login information to the other SSO websites?



I'm still waiting to find out if the new launcher will indeed provide SSO capability as you claimed it would. Can I expect this promised functionality to be implemented soon?

That depends... I was having an interesting discussion today with CCP karkur, since she was concerned about logging into the EVE Launcher and having it automatically have her logged into the forums when she switched to them. For the moment you can think of it as logging into the Forums with Chrome and expecting your other browser, Firefox say, to know that you're logged in. Such sessions aren't inter-browser compatible by default, and the same is true for the EVE Launcher.



This is incorrect. Eve Launcher and Eve websites are part of the same universe. This is more like Logging into Google Chrome and expecting it to also sign me in to my GMAIL account. Since Google Chrome and GMAIL are both part of google, this works. The same should work for Eve Launcher and Eve Forums.


no it should not auto log me in to the forums. I use this alt, one of 24 because I chose it. I don't want the launcher choosing who I rage at ccp with on the forums, that's up to me.


Then you open a browser window independently instead of using the launcher to gate to whichever SSO capable Eve website you wish to use. Then the SSO credentials from the launcher wouldn't be passed to the website. The purpose of SSO is to allow you to log in once and change between account management, forums, community etc without having to sign in at every website. If the launcher uses SSO then it should log you in to each of these websites as you click the link on the launcher. That way if you wish to post on the forums with the account you have logged in on the launcher, you don't need to sign in again. If you wish to post as someone else, you manually open a browser and log in as whomever you wish.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#115 - 2013-05-23 21:24:05 UTC
Mithril Ryder wrote:
I see PL is being mature as usual.

In all seriousness, this was a huge, huge (censored) of a deployment.

Any sort of new login method needs to support the following, natively, with nothing more complicated then your average eve player could be expected to figure out.

Multiple clients rapidly launched from a single install.

Multiple clients from more then one install location, while maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Multiple clients using junction links (simlinks for you *nix dudes :) ), also maintaining separate settings for each install path, even if an account logs in from more then one install path at different times.

Any sort of cloud based settings storage *must* respect the fact that if I am logging into another machine (such as a laptop) it is possible that I want the same settings, but absolutely not the expectation. To that end, I propose the following:

The first time you log in for a given machine and install path combo, save that config info to the cloud as a non blocking background task by default.

When logging in on a new machine, where the install path is the same, don't import/use the cloud settings for that install path. If there is any local config use that, otherwise use eve defaults.

On the login screen have a checkbox "use default settings for this install from the cloud", when checked prompt the user "are you sure? existing settings will be replaced by the default cloud settings for this install path!"

On the in-game settings page, have an indication if the current client is in sync with the cloud, and if it is currently set as the default. Have a button to save the settings from that client as the default for that install path, have a confirmation prompt of course.

Once that is working, allow the cloud settings to also save more then the default. (use a randomly generated GUID stored locally in the launcher directory to track when you log in from a new computer). Allow the user to name each "computer" or "set", but assign defaults for speed.

On the login screen, have a "settings management" that opens up a list of your computers, where the settings for each install path can be set as default, or cloned between computers. If possible, separate things that are more hardware dependent (screen resolution, graphics settings) and universal (chat channels open, over view settings).


Yeah. I sure don't want the same settings when I log in on my laptop. The screen is, um, smaller than my desktop.

Pretty obvious but, well, the launcher design doesn't inspire confidence so just as well to spell it out.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#116 - 2013-05-23 21:27:39 UTC
Hagbard Solaris wrote:


Then you open a browser window independently instead of using the launcher to gate to whichever SSO capable Eve website you wish to use. Then the SSO credentials from the launcher wouldn't be passed to the website. The purpose of SSO is to allow you to log in once and change between account management, forums, community etc without having to sign in at every website. If the launcher uses SSO then it should log you in to each of these websites as you click the link on the launcher. That way if you wish to post on the forums with the account you have logged in on the launcher, you don't need to sign in again. If you wish to post as someone else, you manually open a browser and log in as whomever you wish.


so why have the launcher then? the old client allowed me to do this.

SSO is all well and good if you only have 1 or 2 accounts, but when you run more than that, you now get screwed by SSO. this is what needs to be addressed and currently is not even a speck on ccp's radar

OMG when can i get a pic here
Danni stark
#117 - 2013-05-23 21:30:26 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
while i personally wasn't disrupted too much by the change, the free SP will be awesome, and this just really does illustrate why CCP are so loved and why EVE is as good as it is.

although i still have no idea why people bother with the launcher, it's completely useless and redundant.


You know that they will be disabling the eve.exe option shortly, yes ?

Do you still think that CCP are awesome, as next time they break the launcher, there will be no workaround.


and then i'll stamp my feet and make redundant threads on the forum when i ignore the sticky about it.
then 4 days later i'll be telling them thanks for another 50k sp.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-05-23 21:30:46 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:


  • Log off button removed
    • - Historically the log off button hasn't functioned as a log off feature; the button used to simply close the current Client, and start a new one on the login screen. Since it is our goal to remove this login screen, the log off button doesn't make sense. There is some design that needs to be done here, since the intent of most people clicking the button is to take them back to either a) the character selection screen so that they can switch characters or to the login screen to change users.
    - With user login moved into the EVE Launcher, we need to follow up on the release of the new EVE Launcher by adding in either the ability to switch characters or to relaunch the EVE Launcher and switch users, or supply a way to improve this flow. We're aware of this and are planning accordingly.


On this, I can see why you did it and it makes sense. However, logging in seems to be a bit more of a chore now. Here are my suggestions:

First, is there a reason we need to confirm that we want to log in with said character? I may have missed it but I enter my username and password then hit Login...then I have to hit Play again? Why? If there is a reason for this, I can be fine with it but we did it in the past so not sure why we need this new system. Again, might have missed the reasoning.

Second, with respect to logging in a different character, can't we just get the ability to log directly into the client without going to character selection? I'm sure there is a reason we cannot or this would have been done already but in other games you can just log in directly to the character you want to play and go from there. With the news and other items on that screen being moved (mostly) to the launcher, there isn't really much use to the character selection screen is there? Biomassing a character or redeeming items, which you can do in game as well, are the only two things I can think of. Well outside of making or selecting a character.

These two things would make all this launcher hate go away imo. Put in username, password...select character (of course you need to log in once to get the name saved to then use later)...login...boom you are in game. I think 99% of users want to do this...or am I wrong?

Anyway, thanks for the updates.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
#119 - 2013-05-23 21:32:57 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Honestly this and not the character training? That doesn't make any sense. The character training is demonstrating our intent to have that character gain sp. Giving it to the highest doesn't show anything but a past desire for training.

Make that "the character of any active account who has the highest timestamp for either active or finished skill training". Otherwise, you would not be able to assign skillpoints to EVE users who had their training queue run empty because they could not log on.
Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#120 - 2013-05-23 21:33:35 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
can we still bypass the launcher using the bin folder eve.exe?

as I only want the game client on my pc. I do not want some bloated sales tool

You can, yes. The old login method still exists for the moment, however with login moved into the EVE Launcher then the concept of the old login screen simply doesn't make sense.

pmchem wrote:
What is the response of CCP to the concept of the login screen being iconic art?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3070688#post3070688

Iconic art, and an excellent new player experience, which is now gone.

I agree that the old login screen was iconic, and I understand the passion with which many people have objected to it's deprecation. We've been discussing this quite extensively amongst the teams involved and we have some ideas that mesh with the move of login to the EVE Launcher and the desire to have an immersive experience akin to the current one.

Somebody posted some pretty tantalising ideas/concept art for a revamped character screen that were very intriguing; maybe someone with better forum search skills than I can find them and repost the link.Smile

Just logged in on my Mac ...
I'm lucky the login screen is still there ... since the launcher for Mac doesn't have fields to login.
Hoping that you're keeping that in mind!

Besides ... what others already mentioned:
Loging in with the new launcher on Windows is a bit complicated in terms of clicks to perform.