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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

First post First post
Author
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2013-05-23 20:38:19 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Atropos

when are you removing the ability to use the bin folder eve.exe?

is it going to be on june the 4th or can we keep using this after the path on that day?

It won't be before Odyssey. I don't have an exact date for it, since it's tied into a much larger engineering project to improve client boot times, asset preloading and getting into the game in general.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#82 - 2013-05-23 20:38:29 UTC
1 ) Increase the cache of remembered accounts on the launcher from 7 to alot more as I use 20+ accounts and many others do as well.

2 ) Opt out button please like the opt out button for "Walking in Stations" . Sorry im not interested in this "****** shiny" feature you added that does or accomplishes nothing.


3 ) Take some programming classes.


4 ) Failing all of the above Kill yourself in game Evil

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2013-05-23 20:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Atropos

when are you removing the ability to use the bin folder eve.exe?

is it going to be on june the 4th or can we keep using this after the path on that day?

It won't be before Odyssey. I don't have an exact date for it, since it's tied into a much larger engineering project to improve client boot times, asset preloading and getting into the game in general.


good news, you know my feelings on how you have broken my multiboxing experience with this launcher and im so hoping that unless you manage to make it as smooth or even better that this bypass remains intact, 3 buttons to start a client/swap toons and log in is what you need to get to, anything more is fail

OMG when can i get a pic here

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2013-05-23 20:43:14 UTC
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
On the original threadnaught, the first post was by CCP Phantom and he said:
"The main change is a new and improved landing page and a new login mechanism which will allow you to log into EVE Online using our SSO (single sign on) service. "

I ran the new launcher, signed on, and entered the game no problems. The launcher was still open, so I gated from the launcher to Account Management and clicked the Login button. My credentials were not passed to account management. I had to enter my name and password manually.
The only non-cosmetic reason for rolling out this disaster of a launcher was to allow the SSO credentials to pass to other Eve websites that use SSO. In your Dev Blog, you specifically mentioned that Account Management was one of the new SSO websited.

Why doesn't the SSO launcher pass my SSO login information to the other SSO websites?



I'm still waiting to find out if the new launcher will indeed provide SSO capability as you claimed it would. Can I expect this promised functionality to be implemented soon?

That depends... I was having an interesting discussion today with CCP karkur, since she was concerned about logging into the EVE Launcher and having it automatically have her logged into the forums when she switched to them. For the moment you can think of it as logging into the Forums with Chrome and expecting your other browser, Firefox say, to know that you're logged in. Such sessions aren't inter-browser compatible by default, and the same is true for the EVE Launcher.

On that note however, we did discuss adding in the option to load the Account Management for the logged in account when the user clicks the link in the browser, but we haven't nailed down exactly what links we want to have implicitly loaded in a logged in state; we don't want people to inadvertently out their market alts, troll characters and hidden spies as the result of an inadvertent click in the EVE Launcher.
Cevin North
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
#85 - 2013-05-23 20:43:19 UTC
Atpros, if you remove that function, id hope you got your launcher working for linuxc and mac users too.

Im not evil tempered but ill be majorly pissed off if u lock me out of eve becouse i run linux or smackintosh, since those clients are still messed up. ( see WineHQ if u dont beleave me)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#86 - 2013-05-23 20:44:00 UTC
MaRU2760 133 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
MaRU2760 133 wrote:

The question remains, though, "If a significant percentage of the playerbase is still having problems after three days, why didn't you roll it back?" That really seems strange to me.


Making software ready for a possible rollback is a task with challenges and cost and also requires a specific, conservative corporate attitude.

I.e. I developed such kind of software for the military. Their budgets were not tight, their delivery schedule was not super-tight, they knew that things *can* go wrong.


CCP budget is not of such size, they timed this delivery with a very small window (right before Odyssey, it HAS to be pushed out before it, as Odyssey prolly don't even have a log in screen coded at all) and CCP management are very, VERY overconfident and prone to these incidents.


You're saying it isn't as simple as just going back to the previous version of the Login screen? I didn't know that. TY


Well I can't know the exact details but reverting the change is probably not just about giving back the old patcher executable.

You'd have to "de-patch" bits of EvE (easy enough) but also to revert database structure changes, move database rows back to where they used to be, undo changes to files (it's delicate, you have seen how one of the glitches was exactly apparently losing the settings) and who knows what else back end operations to revert to the previous status.

If you plan a complex system to be "transactional" and basically support "undos" then you can indeed roll back, but I assure you it's VERY time and personnel expensive to do that.
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#87 - 2013-05-23 20:46:23 UTC
Salpun wrote:
I am more concerned with the ghost launchers populating my computer Twisted

CCP needs more Web Devs for sure.


I too am getting Ghost Launcher processes on my WIN XP computer. It seems that CCP is ignoring both of our concerns and is more interested in providing social media support and throwing out 50k SP as hush money than actually addressing our concerns.
What say you CCP? Can we expect the promised SSO functionality on the new launcher, or at least the ability of the launcher to stop all it's processes when we close it?

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?

RadicalOne
Welcome to Estonia
Post Nord
#88 - 2013-05-23 20:50:26 UTC
1) start the new launcher
2) type in account name or select account name from drop down
3) type in password
4) press Enter (At this point i have indicated my intention to login with the credentials provided in 2) and 3) above)

5) Click on the 'PLAY' button (and i do mean click, the enter key doesnt work)

Step 5) above is completely pointless ! as already stated the user has indicated thier intention to login at step 4)
I can see why you (CCP) probably didnt make the "PLAY" button work by pressing the Enter Key. The user would need to press Enter twice lolz. But instead the user has to move the mouse to click on the "PLAY" button.
Any UI developer can see this is not an optimal design. Making the user stop and click on a button (without key shortcut) after the user has already told you what thier intentions are is completely pointless !

Please explain what purpose this "PLAY" button serves that out-weights the inconvience of extra clicks ? is this a UI login barrier for BOTS ? or just a shiney shiney button with extra clicks thrown in for the lolz ?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#89 - 2013-05-23 20:51:05 UTC
Any idea on when this new launcher will be done being Beta tested on the Windows users so it can be given to the Mac users?

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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2013-05-23 20:52:08 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
While CCP Explorer probably passed on my blog post, I just want to make sure it's covered:
As I promised then I passed it on.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2013-05-23 20:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Atropos
Cevin North wrote:
Atpros, if you remove that function, id hope you got your launcher working for linuxc and mac users too.

Im not evil tempered but ill be majorly pissed off if u lock me out of eve becouse i run linux or smackintosh, since those clients are still messed up. ( see WineHQ if u dont beleave me)

Linux no. I posted a thread a few weeks ago in the Linux subforum specifically to let them know that we were working on a new Launcher and that usual caveats applied for supporting Linux. We don't support Linux, and so whilst I don't enjoy the fact that EVE Launcher returns a timeout error when run under Wine, I'm not going to dedicate significant resources for what appears to be an issue in Wine.

I'm open to dialog on the Linux issue however, since I'm well aware that the Linux gaming market is growing thanks in no small part to the work Steam and nVidia have been doing. That said, it's not a platform that we support and any time allocated to an unsupported platform will probably end up coming out of my spare time when I could be enjoying the wonderful Icelandic summer.

As for the Mac, you should note that we haven't released the update for the Mac yet, because we wanted to separate any possible issues to a single platform only. The problems that Mac users were reporting on the 21st were related solely to the service outage we had on our webservers.
mrpapageorgio
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#92 - 2013-05-23 20:52:49 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
veera Haklar wrote:
Any way around the sp going to highest current sp toons on an account, The highest sp toon on my account is certainly not my main, and is infact a character i don't even use anymore, or should i just shut up and be greatfull? :p


I'm really sorry but we don't have a mechanism to allow players to choose which character the skill points go to. The pool is character specific so we have to choose the same criteria for everyone and this is the best criteria overall.


Can't you guys just apply them to the character that is currently in training, wouldn't that make more sense?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#93 - 2013-05-23 20:54:29 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
While CCP Explorer probably passed on my blog post, I just want to make sure it's covered:
As I promised then I passed it on.

I appreciate it Smile

(Panders to my ego. Which is always nice Blink)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#94 - 2013-05-23 20:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
CCP Atropos or any CCP employee, really.....

Still skipping this question of why do you do what is outlined below, then ?


Rommiee wrote:
So... would you like to answer the question that pretty much everyone has been asking over the last couple of days, but you have avoided :

Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#95 - 2013-05-23 20:57:32 UTC
RadicalOne wrote:
1) start the new launcher
2) type in account name or select account name from drop down
3) type in password
4) press Enter (At this point i have indicated my intention to login with the credentials provided in 2) and 3) above)

5) Click on the 'PLAY' button (and i do mean click, the enter key doesnt work)

Step 5) above is completely pointless ! as already stated the user has indicated thier intention to login at step 4)
I can see why you (CCP) probably didnt make the "PLAY" button work by pressing the Enter Key. The user would need to press Enter twice lolz. But instead the user has to move the mouse to click on the "PLAY" button.
Any UI developer can see this is not an optimal design. Making the user stop and click on a button (without key shortcut) after the user has already told you what thier intentions are is completely pointless !

Please explain what purpose this "PLAY" button serves that out-weights the inconvience of extra clicks ? is this a UI login barrier for BOTS ? or just a shiney shiney button with extra clicks thrown in for the lolz ?

We decoupled the act of logging in from the act of entering the EVE Universe. You can now login whilst the updating of your client is ongoing, then choose when to enter the universe itself.

If you look at the webpage that's currently deployed to Singularity you will see that we've already added an auto play button so that if the client is ready, you will automatically start the game when it's ready and you've logged in.

As for the focusing, that's probably something I should fix, since it's most likely the EVE Launcher application not assigned focus properly. I'll follow this up.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2013-05-23 20:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Atropos
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Salpun wrote:
I am more concerned with the ghost launchers populating my computer Twisted

CCP needs more Web Devs for sure.


I too am getting Ghost Launcher processes on my WIN XP computer. It seems that CCP is ignoring both of our concerns and is more interested in providing social media support and throwing out 50k SP as hush money than actually addressing our concerns.
What say you CCP? Can we expect the promised SSO functionality on the new launcher, or at least the ability of the launcher to stop all it's processes when we close it?

I'm currently updating one of the opening posts with current known issues and this is one of them. I can only post in one place at a time though Smile

Edit: regarding the SSO functionality you've asked about before: I replied to you here.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#97 - 2013-05-23 21:00:27 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Atropos or any CCP employee, really.....

Still skipping this question of why do you do what is outlined below, then ?


Rommiee wrote:
So... would you like to answer the question that pretty much everyone has been asking over the last couple of days, but you have avoided :

Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,
I wouldn't expect an answer. After all, we got those 50k SP, so now everything is well, right?

Still watching what CCP does, not what CCP says.
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#98 - 2013-05-23 21:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kblackjack54
[

Much appreciated the frank and concise explanation on what the problems being experienced are, how CCP are attempting to tackle these and also the transparent explanation on were this new launcher is taking us.

The admission however that it is not CCP's intention to curtail multiboxing does not really cover the issues players have regarding this new launcher, advertising aside, which I abhor by the way being utterly pointless, they have grave concerns about the actual process and the indications that the current ability to bypass the launcher may be removed.

Why is this so important a point, two reasons, simplicity being the primary, logging in multiple accounts and there are a lot of us that do has now become a very long process indeed, the fact that the Launcher does not allow 'Preparation' of the log ins for multiple accounts after which it is a simple and very fast process to open multiple clients, in my case up to 10 which can be all up and running in less than two minutes, I can assure you this is not being done currently using this new launcher, the process is so long and drawn out that by the time I get them done it's basically time to pack up and go home.

Second, back up, there have been a number of occasions during past years when for reasons unknown the old launcher would fail to work, using the 'exe' worked around this without the need to go through bug reports etc, a simple paste of a verbatim copy held on file fixed the original but until that was done I and others could still gain access to the game, and that is what is important to the players, not advertising, not fancy graphics, face book, twitter and feeds, we come to play EVE, that is what matters to us, might not fit into your view of the world but that is the bottom line for the paying customer.

Take away that facility, impede it in anyway and the result will be as we have seen, 130 plus pages of vitriolic rage posts, not because you introduced the new launcher, not because it failed to work as advertised, but simply because when it did work it just simply got in the way, was tedious to use and did not serve the players primary need, fast linear access to the clients character choice screen, if that does not convey the message clearly on were you went wrong with this one, nothing will.

Ta much for the Skill points CCP Guard, much appreciated.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#99 - 2013-05-23 21:01:44 UTC
RadicalOne wrote:
1) start the new launcher
2) type in account name or select account name from drop down
3) type in password
4) press Enter (At this point i have indicated my intention to login with the credentials provided in 2) and 3) above)

5) Click on the 'PLAY' button (and i do mean click, the enter key doesnt work)

Step 5) above is completely pointless ! as already stated the user has indicated thier intention to login at step 4)
I can see why you (CCP) probably didnt make the "PLAY" button work by pressing the Enter Key. The user would need to press Enter twice lolz. But instead the user has to move the mouse to click on the "PLAY" button.
Any UI developer can see this is not an optimal design. Making the user stop and click on a button (without key shortcut) after the user has already told you what their intentions are is completely pointless !

Please explain what purpose this "PLAY" button serves that out-weights the inconvenience of extra clicks ? is this a UI login barrier for BOTS ? or just a shiny shiny button with extra clicks thrown in for the lolz ?

Its so in the future they can add other buttons, like "Test server" (connects to Sisi) "Chat" (Just gives you the chat window) "Trade" (Just gives you the tools to manage orders and station inventory), "Talk" (just Eve voice), "Skills" (Just lets you do your skill tree) and so on. Many of these would be enabled for both PC and mobile devices. In the future entering your credentials will not be sufficient to show your intention as to what you want to do, as there will be many things to do.

Now, what they could do is have all those buttons show up as soon as a password is typed in. Then instead of having to type in a password, hit Enter, then click a button, you just type your password and click a button.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#100 - 2013-05-23 21:02:12 UTC
I don't think he was asking you to fix it. He was asking you not to break it.

CCP Atropos wrote:
Cevin North wrote:
Atpros, if you remove that function, id hope you got your launcher working for linuxc and mac users too.

Im not evil tempered but ill be majorly pissed off if u lock me out of eve becouse i run linux or smackintosh, since those clients are still messed up. ( see WineHQ if u dont beleave me)

Linux no. I posted a thread a few weeks ago in the Linux subforum specifically to let them know that we were working on a new Launcher and that usual caveats applied for supporting Linux. We don't support Linux, and so whilst I don't enjoy the fact that EVE Launcher returns a timeout error when run under Wine, I'm not going to dedicate significant resources for what appears to be an issue in Wine.

I'm open to dialog on the Linux issue however, since I'm well aware that the Linux gaming market is growing thanks in no small part to the work Steam and nVidia have been doing. That said, it's not a platform that we support and any time allocated to an unsupported platform will probably end up coming out of my spare time when I could be enjoying the wonderful Icelandic summer.

As for the Mac, you should note that we haven't released the update for the Mac yet, because we wanted to separate any possible issues to a single platform only. The problems that Mac users were reporting on the 21st were related solely to the service outage we had on our webservers.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.