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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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drake duka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1381 - 2013-05-23 03:34:31 UTC
Cool changes, thanks for reconsidering :). The TE nerf will make it difficult to use as a "cane replacement" but I don't think any BS would be good for this anyway. It will however be a great support armor bs.

Only fitting 1 plate with the new agility/speed and armor honeycombing would allow it to move efficiently enough to apply dps and make use of heavy neuts+whatever e-war you want in your 5 mids. There certainly won't be tempest fleets any time soon but a few will make a great addition to any bs gang by virtue of their versatility. This is kind of similar to the loki in t3, not the greatest tank/dps but makes up for it with great support in the form of webs/painters/mobility. Tempest will be similar but with neuts/decent mobility/e-war.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1382 - 2013-05-23 04:28:40 UTC
Callin git great is still far fetchet. It still cannot be used in any realistic role that exists indeed in combat. But at the very least its not a shameful whale that make minmata pilots want to hide their heads inside the sand because it warps slower than amarr hull.s

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#1383 - 2013-05-23 05:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Garresh
Urkhan Law wrote:
Garresh wrote:
AAR rifters are god tier


Calling it BS.
Love the Rifter, best looking chassis in my opinion.
I try to make it work daily but it is impossible to not see his shortcomings.

The speed advantage you gain by not using plates it is easy to overcome by your oponents with the current heating mechanics (where heating only starts/stops at the next cycle).
In the end you have a worse tank, worse dps, a bit more speed and a slight better projection where the damage you can make is easily repaired and that's it. The SAAR improved it a bit, but not that much as you say, at the end of fights in falloff you'll be out of nanite, trying to milk the last bits of cap to feed your now unbonused repair module, you look at your oponent and he will still have more armor/shield than you simply because they have more dps/ehp than you.

It is still a good ship, my favourite, and I'm not a great pilot and I will keep blowing them up right left and center always trying it to make it work, but it is no where near the "god tier" as you call it, that tier is reserved for Incursus, Merlins, Kestrels at the moment. Some fights with the Rifter are now "EvE in hard mode" - maybe the punishement of being better than most for so long.
Great it in fleets where you can split EW with the rest of the gang, you can use a med shield extender, slap a gyro and go crazy, but by the same line of thought, almost all ships can work great in fleets, and there are always better ships for the job than a rifter.

Sorry about the derail, this thread is about battleships afterall.


Call it what you want. Check my kill board on battle clinic(yes I know) and see some of the stupid **** it can pull off. Id link stuff but I'm on my phone. I got like 4 kills, both 2v1s a few days ago. I also took my noob friend out in a t1 fit caracal with me flying a SAAR rifter. Engaged a curse with like 5 neuts and tanked his **** all day. He kind of had a dumb fitting but he died because he was held with a scram for 60 seconds by a SAAR rifter and couldn't MWD to range. Meanwhile my friends t1 fit caracal took him down with a whopping 150 DPS. Minmatar ships always look like **** in EFT. But they're more than the sum of their parts.

Edit: and I'm really not that good of a pvper, as you might have been able to tell by some of my embarassing losses. Haha.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Kanbe Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1384 - 2013-05-23 11:00:08 UTC
As a new player who was looking forward to training up for a phoon because of it's uniqueness and versatility I have to say these changes have made me lose interest in the ship. I'm really hoping they don't touch the navy issue so I can still fly an old style phoon. It went from 3 weapon systems (drones, missiles, projectiles) to just 1. That drone bay got smashed with a sledgehammer =/
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#1385 - 2013-05-23 11:22:26 UTC
Can't wait to try the new Typhoon on Tranquility. The Armor based setup the missle/Torpedo bonuses plus all those shiny mids to do whatever you want make me excited Oops
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1386 - 2013-05-23 11:37:57 UTC
Kanbe Zateki wrote:
As a new player who was looking forward to training up for a phoon because of it's uniqueness and versatility I have to say these changes have made me lose interest in the ship. I'm really hoping they don't touch the navy issue so I can still fly an old style phoon. It went from 3 weapon systems (drones, missiles, projectiles) to just 1. That drone bay got smashed with a sledgehammer =/



i must oppose this

there are such great mission and pvp fits possible
you should realy toy arround with it in eft more youll like it soon enough
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#1387 - 2013-05-23 12:03:07 UTC
Garresh wrote:
...

Let's not derail it, I use zkill, just because I'm able to kill sh*tfits with it doesn't mean the Rifter is ok.

Gratz with the Tempest guys, it is another ship I really like (just because it looks awesome).
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1388 - 2013-05-23 13:29:13 UTC
The tempest still is a ship that cannot filla clear role. But at least the speed is not wasted because of its mass anymore.



On general I still think almost all battleships are too weak, the only one being calsoe to strong enough being the hyperion and new typhoon.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1389 - 2013-05-23 18:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunuva Gunn
Kanbe Zateki wrote:
As a new player who was looking forward to training up for a phoon because of it's uniqueness and versatility I have to say these changes have made me lose interest in the ship. I'm really hoping they don't touch the navy issue so I can still fly an old style phoon. It went from 3 weapon systems (drones, missiles, projectiles) to just 1. That drone bay got smashed with a sledgehammer =/


A fair number of people have said this. We can see that the new version is a powerful boat, but really would rather that it were left a 3 system ship. The CCP folks have seen these posts and.... decided to ignore them (apparently we'll be happy because the ship is going to be powerful. Yay :/).

I'll be canceling my subscriptions for a few months when this goes live, as a (rather weak) protest, but my third-favorite ship is the Fleet Scythe, and they've made that awesome, so I'll likely be back pretty quickly.

If they mess up the Fleet Typhoon, I'll just quit for good. I like sandbox games where I get to choose how to play, not ones where I get continuously shoehorned into roles I don't want to play.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1390 - 2013-05-23 19:28:11 UTC
Sunuva Gunn wrote:
Kanbe Zateki wrote:
As a new player who was looking forward to training up for a phoon because of it's uniqueness and versatility I have to say these changes have made me lose interest in the ship. I'm really hoping they don't touch the navy issue so I can still fly an old style phoon. It went from 3 weapon systems (drones, missiles, projectiles) to just 1. That drone bay got smashed with a sledgehammer =/


A fair number of people have said this. We can see that the new version is a powerful boat, but really would rather that it were left a 3 system ship. The CCP folks have seen these posts and.... decided to ignore them (apparently we'll be happy because the ship is going to be powerful. Yay :/).

I'll be canceling my subscriptions for a few months when this goes live, as a (rather weak) protest, but my third-favorite ship is the Fleet Scythe, and they've made that awesome, so I'll likely be back pretty quickly.

If they mess up the Fleet Typhoon, I'll just quit for good. I like sandbox games where I get to choose how to play, not ones where I get continuously shoehorned into roles I don't want to play.



Are you the only one that did not ssee that they already announced navy battleship changes several days ago?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1391 - 2013-05-23 19:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunuva Gunn
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Are you the only one that did not see that they already announced navy battleship changes several days ago?


It looks like I was and... They've turned the Navy Typhoon into the Typhoon. It's loosing a low slot?

Looks like I'll be canceling after all :/

Edit: Accounts canceled. I may be a drama queen, but I'm true to my word.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1392 - 2013-05-23 19:56:57 UTC
Sunuva Gunn wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Are you the only one that did not see that they already announced navy battleship changes several days ago?


It looks like I was and... They've turned the Navy Typhoon into the Typhoon. It's loosing a low slot?

Looks like I'll be canceling after all :/

Edit: Accounts canceled. I may be a drama queen, but I'm true to my word.


i dont get it...
fleet phoon is great and still flexible as you wanted o.O
Leto Atal
LoneStar Industries
#1393 - 2013-05-23 20:04:28 UTC
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?

When looking at the bonuses a ship has do not think that a ship should only have two bonuses. Consider what can actually be used. Also when the weapon systems are split the pilot must choose which one to focus on with damage boosting modules.

The Typhoon can safely be given multiple weapon bonuses and still be balanced because they can't be completely utilised at the same time (see Gnosis).

Having a 6 turret, 6 launcher ability does unbalance the ship. It makes it a do whatever you want with it. It's supposed to have split weapon systems and the pilot must make a hard choice of what to sacrifice. The old change from a 4/4 to a 5/5 was cool. Just leave the standard Typhoon at 5/5, and give it back its drone bay. Maybe leave the 6/6 as an improvement given to the Fleet Issue.

The additional mid slot is nice. But why does the Fleet Issue lose it's bonus low?

I would like to see something like this:

Typhoon
+4% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+4% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+4% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+6% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets , 5 launchers
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175

Typhoon Fleet Issue
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+5% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+7.5% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 8L; 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 200
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1394 - 2013-05-23 20:41:33 UTC
Leto Atal wrote:
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?

When looking at the bonuses a ship has do not think that a ship should only have two bonuses. Consider what can actually be used. Also when the weapon systems are split the pilot must choose which one to focus on with damage boosting modules.

The Typhoon can safely be given multiple weapon bonuses and still be balanced because they can't be completely utilised at the same time (see Gnosis).

Having a 6 turret, 6 launcher ability does unbalance the ship. It makes it a do whatever you want with it. It's supposed to have split weapon systems and the pilot must make a hard choice of what to sacrifice. The old change from a 4/4 to a 5/5 was cool. Just leave the standard Typhoon at 5/5, and give it back its drone bay. Maybe leave the 6/6 as an improvement given to the Fleet Issue.

The additional mid slot is nice. But why does the Fleet Issue lose it's bonus low?

I would like to see something like this:

Typhoon
+4% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+4% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+4% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+6% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets , 5 launchers
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175

Typhoon Fleet Issue
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+5% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+7.5% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 8L; 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 200


sry but i don't see the point you basically implement 2 ships in the game... nobody would use split weapons on those but either the one or the other
CCP did a good job on the fleet issue keep it that way and if you want to complain take the navy thread
Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1395 - 2013-05-23 20:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunuva Gunn
Kane Fenris wrote:
Leto Atal wrote:
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?

When looking at the bonuses a ship has do not think that a ship should only have two bonuses. Consider what can actually be used. Also when the weapon systems are split the pilot must choose which one to focus on with damage boosting modules.

The Typhoon can safely be given multiple weapon bonuses and still be balanced because they can't be completely utilised at the same time (see Gnosis).

Having a 6 turret, 6 launcher ability does unbalance the ship. It makes it a do whatever you want with it. It's supposed to have split weapon systems and the pilot must make a hard choice of what to sacrifice. The old change from a 4/4 to a 5/5 was cool. Just leave the standard Typhoon at 5/5, and give it back its drone bay. Maybe leave the 6/6 as an improvement given to the Fleet Issue.

The additional mid slot is nice. But why does the Fleet Issue lose it's bonus low?

I would like to see something like this:

Typhoon
+4% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+4% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+4% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+6% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets , 5 launchers
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175

Typhoon Fleet Issue
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher damage
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity

+5% to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+7.5% Large Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 8L; 6 turrets(+1) , 6 launchers(+1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 200


sry but i don't see the point you basically implement 2 ships in the game... nobody would use split weapons on those but either the one or the other
CCP did a good job on the fleet issue keep it that way and if you want to complain take the navy thread


I use a split weapons ship. It's why I fly a Typhoon. It's also why I'm so pissed that they're removing all the Minnie split-system battleships :/

P.S. I also like this balancing suggestion. It beats turning the Phoon into a dull Torpedo boat and removing slots from the Fleet version :/ (So, yes, I think CCP have done a really BAD job on the fleet issue)
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1396 - 2013-05-23 20:48:50 UTC
Leto Atal wrote:
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?


They change the regular typhoon so minmatar pilots who come using missiles can move into a batteship.

If they didn't a minmatar pilot who gets into a cyclone has to either cross train into caldari boats, or they have to train drone and projectile skills so they can move into a typhoon.

And honestly the fleet typhoon does a good job of keeping the typhoon flexibility intact, even though it is losing a low.

The tempest and the fleet tempest are the only boats I'm worried about. The tempest got better with the recent change, but it still doesn't seem to do anything very well. It just doesn't do anything more responsively now.
Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1397 - 2013-05-23 20:50:31 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Leto Atal wrote:
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?


They change the regular typhoon so minmatar pilots who come using missiles can move into a batteship.

If they didn't a minmatar pilot who gets into a cyclone has to either cross train into caldari boats, or they have to train drone and projectile skills so they can move into a typhoon.

And honestly the fleet typhoon does a good job of keeping the typhoon flexibility intact, even though it is losing a low.

The tempest and the fleet tempest are the only boats I'm worried about. The tempest got better with the recent change, but it still doesn't seem to do anything very well. It just doesn't do anything more responsively now.


Question:

Why didn't they make the Tempest into a Missile Boat?
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1398 - 2013-05-23 20:57:25 UTC
Sunuva Gunn wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Leto Atal wrote:
Oh my, what have you done to the Typhoon?


They change the regular typhoon so minmatar pilots who come using missiles can move into a batteship.

If they didn't a minmatar pilot who gets into a cyclone has to either cross train into caldari boats, or they have to train drone and projectile skills so they can move into a typhoon.

And honestly the fleet typhoon does a good job of keeping the typhoon flexibility intact, even though it is losing a low.

The tempest and the fleet tempest are the only boats I'm worried about. The tempest got better with the recent change, but it still doesn't seem to do anything very well. It just doesn't do anything more responsively now.


Question:

Why didn't they make the Tempest into a Missile Boat?


That I don't know. If they would have done that it may have stopped a lot of the crying on the forums since no one used it anyway.

But they didn't. If I had a gun to my head I would say that it's because it's the most recognizable minmatar ship in all those videos, but it was honestly a pretty stupid mistake.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1399 - 2013-05-23 21:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Sunuva Gunn wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Are you the only one that did not see that they already announced navy battleship changes several days ago?


It looks like I was and... They've turned the Navy Typhoon into the Typhoon. It's loosing a low slot?

Looks like I'll be canceling after all :/

Edit: Accounts canceled. I may be a drama queen, but I'm true to my word.



The Fleet Issue Phoon is having it's 25% rate of fire bonus for turrets and launchers increased to 37.5%. Much of what I read in the Navy BS Thread is people voicing their fears that it is overpowered now. It traded that low for a mid. I can get over 1k DPS out of it without touching a damage mod and over 200k EHP with 'only' seven low slots. If that ships is making you quit Eve then no amount of logic or reasoning is going to pursuade you I'm afraid.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a Typhoon on TQ. Whatever PVP niche it filled would have been destroyed by the new Armageddon. And honestly no matter what decisions CCP makes someone is going to disagree. They could announce beneficial changes to EAFs, a class no one flies, and some special snowflake will scream about their sentinel. I see nothing so earth shattering or insurmountable in these changes that I'd quit. Good luck finding anything remotely close to Eve out there.
Koshie Naranek
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1400 - 2013-05-23 21:33:54 UTC
Wow, looked at the new slot layout for the tweaked Hype and Mega. So jelly. Good thing the typhoon is nice cause there is no way in hell I'd ever fly a tempest, for anything. 7/6/6, 7/5/7-dont mind loosing a utility slot, still have one. Or 7 guns and give it a falloff bonus instead.

Shame because it looks really nice now.

Compare it to the tweaked Mega. Yeah, see what I mean.