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EVE Launcher update on May 21, 2013

First post First post
Author
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#2261 - 2013-05-22 14:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:

We cannot give you all the answers right at this moment. At the moment people are either having meetings to go through this and/or working on solutions. It would be rash to say too much right now. We can only ask for your patience while we decide the next steps and we will get back to you with any information that we have to share.



Quality Assurance. That's all we're saying, man.

Or at least a form of testing before you throw an incomplete, unwanted pile of horse manure at us.


It's been on the test server for a few weeks, i'm sure you logged on there to help test it, right? There's no way people would come to forums bitching about a lack of testing on every possible computer configuration without testing it themselves, i'm sure.


I logged in and tested it on sisi. I was very vocal about my issues with it. and CCP Aporia who brushed that feedback aside stating

CCP Aporia wrote:

We've noted the concerns that people have about how it changes the way one has to do multi-boxing stuff and we are working on improvements on this. With that regard, though, let it be said that with all the various ways in which people are multi-boxing then it's near impossible to not annoy some parts of our userbase which do this.


i.e. ignoring what he was told about the many issues

the old launcher addressed all this multiboxing issues, the new one chucked every consideration aside

OMG when can i get a pic here

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2262 - 2013-05-22 14:19:45 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Steijn wrote:
[
Appreciate the honest answer. I guess its as close as we are likely to get to 'yea we know we fcked up, we now just need to find the best solution to fix this.'


It reminds me of the inventory screwup. And the incarna screwup before it. And the gold ammo screwup. And the PI screwup. And.... well you see the gist, I could go on forever.

CCP = the boot.ini company.



Fun thing, there are as bad producers in the industry and they would not even acknowledge NOR fix their screwups. Yes, EA I am looking at you.



How about SOE .... NGE anyone ? Blink


Well, SOE is the appropriate destiny for companies that love to screw up.
M0stN00bs
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2263 - 2013-05-22 14:21:41 UTC

So ... the launcher looks good , and all started up for me well and on the first try so no problems there BUT


my fuckin setings got fuckin deleted !!! all of them .. also the overview is ******* back to standard again aswell , u have no ideea how iritating that is CCP !!


Also i think my station setings keep on getting reversed everytime i re-log or change accounts ... example like window size , shortcuts on the left-side .. oh and yes .. the iritating Captain's Quarters !! i mean hell i aint got a 2k $ pc here ...




else is fine
Taiga Rie
Caladari CareBear Corporation
#2264 - 2013-05-22 14:23:09 UTC
All ingame config is gone. EPIC FAILX
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus
Legion Air
#2265 - 2013-05-22 14:23:24 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:

We cannot give you all the answers right at this moment. At the moment people are either having meetings to go through this and/or working on solutions. It would be rash to say too much right now. We can only ask for your patience while we decide the next steps and we will get back to you with any information that we have to share.


Just suspend all meetings, and get the right people sat at their stations to roll this mess back first. Then resume the meets and figure out what to do next and release it when you have all these issues sorted.

As it stands now, this sounds like the debate on the gender of angels that took place while Constantinople was being attacked in 1453.
Sakhr Otaktay
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2266 - 2013-05-22 14:23:37 UTC
M0stN00bs wrote:

So ... the launcher looks good , and all started up for me well and on the first try so no problems there BUT


my fuckin setings got fuckin deleted !!! all of them .. also the overview is ******* back to standard again aswell , u have no ideea how iritating that is CCP !!


Also i think my station setings keep on getting reversed everytime i re-log or change accounts ... example like window size , shortcuts on the left-side .. oh and yes .. the iritating Captain's Quarters !! i mean hell i aint got a 2k $ pc here ...




else is fine




Relog and it should fix it all.
Bendy Profane
Hologram Eyes
#2267 - 2013-05-22 14:23:43 UTC
The login screens were beautiful and served as atmospheric portals to Eve. You're not doing the players or yourself a favor by removing them.
Par'Gellen
#2268 - 2013-05-22 14:26:17 UTC
I'll throw my voice in with all the others about this:

With the new launcher logging in multiple accounts is a pain in the arse. Could you guys have designed it any worse? Maybe next time hire an engineering team with the sole purpose of making the customer's life harder? Actually nevermind, I think you nailed it this time. The only way it could be worse is if it punched me in the nuts when I click Play each time.

Thanks CCP!

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2269 - 2013-05-22 14:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:

It's been on the test server for a few weeks, i'm sure you logged on there to help test it, right? There's no way people would come to forums bitching about a lack of testing on every possible computer configuration without testing it themselves, i'm sure.


The test server IS NOT and SHOULD NOT be a replacement for proper quality assurance. You want to crowd-source the development and feedback on a product? Awesome, rock and roll. But as soon as you want to make a product PUBLIC to a PAYING userbase, you have certain responsibilities to test the product in-house with documented QA procedures. The stakeholders and shareholders in the company CCP Games should expect no less. Wagging a finger in the direction of a test server means precisely nothing beyond the Alpha stage of a product. If you choose to give CCP a pass on this that's your prerogative, but I can't. This kind of thing happens YEARLY here, which leads me to believe one of two things: either a) there is no established QA process in place, or b) that QA process is ignored or short-circuited somewhere along the line. Management at CCP should pay close attention to that point.


The problem is not even the quality of the product (which of course is important) but the obvious ineptitude and
recidivous inability to design functional user interfaces that make sense.

Back at my programming days we had the boss shouting us: "USABILITY, USABILTY, USABILITY! There are people forced to use your piece of junk for 8 hours a day, WALK IN THEIR SHOES!"


Guess what, at CCP apparently they lack a boss that pushes developers into walking in the players shoes and is shows, oh if it shows!
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#2270 - 2013-05-22 14:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Another customer asked if there was any player feedback on this and it hit me - WTH was the last CSM on this??????

Did none of them multibox? Did they really sign off on this? Were they given a dog and pony show - but were clueless that it was a bait-n-switch show?

Another reason to believe that CSM is a joke.

CCP - do a REAL Alpha/Beta with a enough people for a true sampling space and depth of ideas.
Tiregn
Anvil Capital Trading
#2271 - 2013-05-22 14:27:52 UTC
Susiqueta Muir wrote:
Why do I have to keep accepting the EULA EVERY time I log on?

Every.Single.Time...

Bad form CCP... Bad Form...


Oh God this. I came here, scanned through all the Dev posts to see if it was mentioned, didn't see it until this post.

PLEASE fix this. Other's have said how I feel about this launcher, so I won't berate you for that, but for the love of god, I do not want to accept the EULA EVERY TIME I LOG ON.

Arrr capslock rage.
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2272 - 2013-05-22 14:29:12 UTC
While CCP Devs pontificate on there latest creation....Chaos as some would call it, might I offer to the whole of CCP a solution to a lot of the problems thrown up by this patch.

To begin with it is long past time CCP started to treat it's clients, that is the little people that provide the cash to pay the bills etc. not as something subhuman or infantile which currently appears to be the case, but instead as intelligent mature individuals that really do have the ability to grasp complex explanations.

They would feel a lot less insulted and IMO be a lot more sympathetic towards problems if CCP came clean and admitted that it is the games success that is at the root of a lot of the problems and the inability of those that created it to see into the future and understand just how successful EVE would eventually become.

As a result the coding of EVE and the equipment it is currently running, and believe me they are dependent on each other, is far behind the required curve in the area of operating capacity and coding future proofing and must be fast approaching saturation in terms of it's ability to handle clients given current average user figures.

If as we all hope EVE is to continue into it's second decade of operation with any chance of success it will require a major re-coding and equipment update and surprisingly enough a lot of the community fully understand this problem and what it will take to resolve it, the standings issue alone which permeates the whole of EVE operations is a massive undertaking and is only one small part of the problem.

Information is key here guys, lay it out were you are going, how you intend and hope to get there and what problems you consider might forestall this process, nothing that intricate it might compromise game security but enough to indicate what's happening, why it's felt needed and how you intend to present this as a final product, tall order maybe but in the end when things go wrong, and they will go wrong, The community will be more understanding of what is happening and less of the vitriolic failure message mentality promoted mainly by lack of information

It also might be time for you to consider standing down from the six monthly update process for a year to concentrate on the full overhaul of EVE that is so obviously required, there must be now be enough written, tested and reliable code to allow for small sweeteners to be inserted over the course of a year that would allow you to do this.

The community knows were they need the game to go, you know how this can be achieved, time maybe to do what's required and save us all from this type of thread for years to come.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#2273 - 2013-05-22 14:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Bodb Derg wrote:
Peoples needs to calm down. These things happen.

NO,

CCP needs to spend their time fixing actual game problems,

Not wasting their time creating new features nobody wants, that are less functional than the features they replaced.

Unified inventory as an example, took how many months to fix? And there are still issues with it. It was not a feature players wanted, but it was pushed on us, and it was screwed up so bad over a year later it still has issues. Will this new POS launcher be the same?

It would seem they really learned nothing from their mistakes in Incarna.

I am doing as many others, use the launcher for patching only, launch clients from the exefile.exe in the bin folder. This allows me to log into additional clients without going through the launcher at all.

However it seems that if you are logging in thru steam you are SOL.
spaceinator
420 Enterprises.
#2274 - 2013-05-22 14:33:19 UTC
Now that you all have gotten your bitching out of the way, yes the new launcher is ****, and CCP have made a grave mistake, hundreds of people have said it, no need for more, i think CCP get the picture.

Now im still having a problem, when the launcher loads it goes through the process of checking for updates and downloads a small patch but when applying the patch at 100% it stops (3/4) and i cannot load the game, i have looked in my bin folder and cant find any exe file, idk if running it from steam makes it different can any1 help.
AndromacheDarkstar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2275 - 2013-05-22 14:33:33 UTC
Bendy Profane wrote:
The login screens were beautiful and served as atmospheric portals to Eve. You're not doing the players or yourself a favor by removing them.



Couldnt agree more, its a real shame to lsoe something like that in favour of a box of text and a very odd decision after all of CCPs talk of immersion at fan fest.

Somebody also mentioned the lack of CSM intervention from the old CSM before this became an issue, as much as i agree with that id lvoe to see some input from the current CSM on this, unless ive missed it i havent seen any CSM input in this thread. Would be nice to get their thoughts.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2276 - 2013-05-22 14:33:38 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Another customer asked if there was any player feedback on this and it hit me - WTH was the last CSM on this??????

Did none of them multibox? Did they really sign off on this? Were they given a dog and pony show - but were clueless that it was a bait-n-switch show?

Another reason to believe that CSM is a joke.

CCP - do a REAL Alpha/Beta with a enough people to a true sampling space and depth of ideas.




The few CSM that have spoken so far believe that the new launcher is not an issue and that everyone is just bitching because they are afraid of change.





There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Craig Bennett2th
Bennett Corp
#2277 - 2013-05-22 14:33:41 UTC
I made a video on how everyone can bypass the launcher

http://youtu.be/kpEtdMdBvlM

Hell is around every turn. It's your choice to go in it or not. Please check out the Rookies in EVE video playlist. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLioOFeHwQV5yNk2vpz8wX9hihLVQEIKLt

Steijn
Quay Industries
#2278 - 2013-05-22 14:37:00 UTC
spaceinator wrote:
Now that you all have gotten your bitching out of the way, yes the new launcher is ****, and CCP have made a grave mistake, hundreds of people have said it, no need for more, i think CCP get the picture.

Now im still having a problem, when the launcher loads it goes through the process of checking for updates and downloads a small patch but when applying the patch at 100% it stops (3/4) and i cannot load the game, i have looked in my bin folder and cant find any exe file, idk if running it from steam makes it different can any1 help.


only guessing here as dont use Eve via steam

steam / steamapps / common / ccp? /
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2279 - 2013-05-22 14:37:39 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
From another EVE-O GD thread:

Quote:
*snip*
And yet we pay for the EVE entertainment service, just as we pay for other business services that might fall under the "serious" category.

Dependencies on ancillary systems are just as critical for review as is the primary functionality of the newly implemented logic and UI. Regardless of what caused the failure, CCP's EVE subscribers were faced with a service that was rendered unavailable without some under the covers technical tinkering on a widespread scale. The perception was that the launcher had utterly failed even though it was content / data feeds which were buckling under some unknown pressures.

On top of these problems, there was little-to-no communication from CCP that they were intending to foist some significant new functionality on their users. Given a few days notice, players would have set their long-train skills and gotten assets out of harm's way. Instead of properly setting the expectation of a patch day, CCP surprised its customers in a bad way. This is a big no-no in the world of customer relationship management.

The challenge that CCP faces with poorly executed patch releases is one of a cumulative nature where CCP, on an annual basis, royally fucks up what they market as "expansions" with game breaking defects or functionality that is considered to be highly undesirable by their customers. The list is long with these ****-ups and EVE subscribers have even longer memories.

When CCP pulls a completely avoidable stunt like they did with this new launcher functionality release, the collective perception of CCPs ineptitude is acutely focused on what has gone wrong rather than on the future potential [some might say vaporware] of CCP's long-term initiatives.
Suggestions on how to do better?

1) Communication and Expectations Setting: Ensure that your customers have lead-time to prepare for patches. As much as I believe that patches should not contain game-breaking elements, history has proven that when EVE subscribers know about an impending patch, they are more flexible and forgiving if the execution does not go as planned.

2) Testing and Preparation: In hindsight, it is clear that the new launcher is highly dependent upon one or more content servers in order to work properly. Testing what happens to the launcher functionality when one or all of those content servers is unavailable seems like one of the most basic tests-cases associated with this project. It doesn't matter if the content server failure was unrelated to the patch, the fact remains that the launcher is susceptible to the failure of an external system. Assuming that external systems will be up and running for a major patch (yes, the launcher is the gateway to your service, CCP) and not preparing for unexpected failures / downtime is poor planning. Ensuring that the launcher can handle one or more failed external systems gracefully is critical.


It's commendable people even still try to voice sincere and thoughtful advice after 10yrs of CCP repetitively ignoring user feedback about features tested on SiSi & the constant evidence of CCP's failures to conduct even the most basic tests of said features outside of initial coding.

Frankly, the community would better serve itself by trolling CCP hard rather than wasting their own time and energy trying to advise a company that is completely deaf and blind to its customers voice and concerns. At least this way, we entertain ourselves and create our own content.

Don't ban me, bro!

Jehal Erata
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2280 - 2013-05-22 14:41:36 UTC
While some might have found their ways of launching EVE, it is important for me to address that we are many that have not, and are still unable to play.

I hope finding a solution is the top priority by now. Subscribers and reputation is on the line.

Looking forward to be able to play.