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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1361 - 2013-05-22 11:04:51 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Garresh wrote:
...I don't like where the tempest is right now, but I'd say it's safe bet if it doesn't turn out well, it will be fixed within 2 months.

I'd like to see anyone in this thread do better.


I'll quote this back to you when the Tempest remains as broken as it is now in August.

As to your second assertion, I disagree. There have been many viable ideas proposed in this thread by longtime and very knowledgeable players that would have helped bring the Tempest up to par with the other battleships. Almost any of those would have been better than what we're finally getting in Odyssey.

The fact that Rise seems to think the current 'Pest is fine, as evidenced by his statements and his last very modest tweaks, don't bode well for you winning that "safe bet".


How about a wager? I'll bet 100 mil the tempest will be in a good place within 3 months after Odyssey launches. Ninja's honor. Lol

And to that other guy. I'm optimistic because I fly around in cruisers and frigs in lowsec all the time. I don't think eve has ever been this balanced. Ever. Their track record so far on tiericide is nearly flawless. I'm willing to give them the benefit for the doubt.



That is because they saved all their blunders for the battleships :P

But seriously we had promises of " tempest will be adjusted before next expansion, or we will look for a clear roel for it ver soon" for like 6 years... they were all lies at end, there is no reason why someone would believe this will nto continue when the PERFECT chance to change them came here.


I had stopped playign eve for 1 years and 2 months and returned because tiercide was reaching the battleships and I wanted to finnally fly these ships corrected and buffed (because battleships overall are TOO WEAK). But seems all my hopes were in vain.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#1362 - 2013-05-22 11:17:33 UTC
Just fly a nanophoon. I'm posting on my phone, but I had a nanophoon fitting on a previous post earlier today. MWD around at like 1600m/s with 70k ehp and 800 missile DPS at 100km range. I also checked my DPS graph and it was doing full damage to battle cruisers. Like 500dps to a mwding cruiser. And that's before drones...

Any who most battleships are gonna rock. Tempest still feels weak to me but I have faith in them.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1363 - 2013-05-22 11:24:20 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Just fly a nanophoon. I'm posting on my phone, but I had a nanophoon fitting on a previous post earlier today. MWD around at like 1600m/s with 70k ehp and 800 missile DPS at 100km range. I also checked my DPS graph and it was doing full damage to battle cruisers. Like 500dps to a mwding cruiser. And that's before drones...

Any who most battleships are gonna rock. Tempest still feels weak to me but I have faith in them.



The typhoon and hyperion are borderline overpowered now. The mega, raven, got buffed. The geddon was made upside down.

But the one that needed the most help was basically untouched. that is the problem.

I do not see why anyone woudl fly a tempest when he can choose between typhoon and hyperion and maelstrom.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1364 - 2013-05-22 15:08:56 UTC
For ***** and giggles can someone crunch the following using the new Tempest numbers and give me the EHP as well as the MWD speed both overheated and regular? I'm stuck at work.

High:
800mm II x 6
Heavy Unstable Fluctuator x 2
Mid:
100MN Prototype MWD
Heavy Cap Booster II
LSE II x 2
Adaptive Invuln II
Low:
Gyro II x 3
DC II
OD II
Nano II
Rigs:
Shield EM
Shield Extender x 2
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1365 - 2013-05-22 15:29:51 UTC
At work as well but can easily preemptively predict that typhoon can overdo it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1366 - 2013-05-22 15:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Syreniac
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
For ***** and giggles can someone crunch the following using the new Tempest numbers and give me the EHP as well as the MWD speed both overheated and regular? I'm stuck at work.

High:
800mm II x 6
Heavy Unstable Fluctuator x 2
Mid:
100MN Prototype MWD
Heavy Cap Booster II
LSE II x 2
Adaptive Invuln II
Low:
Gyro II x 3
DC II
OD II
Nano II
Rigs:
Shield EM
Shield Extender x 2


Goes to:

[NEW Tempest, Tempest]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Which does 823 DPS before drones, goes 1315m/s normal and 1882m/s overheated. Has 83k EHP normal and 87k overheated. Aligns in 14.3 s with MWD on, or 9.6 without it.

With the latest changes from Rise, this would go 1327m/s normally, and 1900m/s overheated. It aligns in 14.1s or 9.4 without a MWD on.
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#1367 - 2013-05-22 15:54:50 UTC
Garresh wrote:
AAR rifters are god tier


Calling it BS.
Love the Rifter, best looking chassis in my opinion.
I try to make it work daily but it is impossible to not see his shortcomings.

The speed advantage you gain by not using plates it is easy to overcome by your oponents with the current heating mechanics (where heating only starts/stops at the next cycle).
In the end you have a worse tank, worse dps, a bit more speed and a slight better projection where the damage you can make is easily repaired and that's it. The SAAR improved it a bit, but not that much as you say, at the end of fights in falloff you'll be out of nanite, trying to milk the last bits of cap to feed your now unbonused repair module, you look at your oponent and he will still have more armor/shield than you simply because they have more dps/ehp than you.

It is still a good ship, my favourite, and I'm not a great pilot and I will keep blowing them up right left and center always trying it to make it work, but it is no where near the "god tier" as you call it, that tier is reserved for Incursus, Merlins, Kestrels at the moment. Some fights with the Rifter are now "EvE in hard mode" - maybe the punishement of being better than most for so long.
Great it in fleets where you can split EW with the rest of the gang, you can use a med shield extender, slap a gyro and go crazy, but by the same line of thought, almost all ships can work great in fleets, and there are always better ships for the job than a rifter.

Sorry about the derail, this thread is about battleships afterall.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1368 - 2013-05-22 17:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
Tempest in OP
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 127(+7) / .116(-.004) / 99500000(-3800000) / 16.00s

ninja buff.......
now take another 1million kg off and you have a deal :P .. the phoon is still more agile (align time).
Although if you look at the description of attack battleships ... damage application is meant to be the focus of their bonuses.... So tracking bonus instead of the damage bonus makes sense here along with a 7th turret and a stronger ROF bonus

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1369 - 2013-05-22 17:17:00 UTC
Ninja buff indeed.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#1370 - 2013-05-22 17:21:47 UTC
Shocked

That is all.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1371 - 2013-05-22 17:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
ninja but a very good buff.

I can settle with that Rise as a Odissey release and we can talk again in like what 3 months? That is if there is need of course.


With this mass at least I can use it as a moderately agile battleship :)


Thanks a lot for listening to the reason regarding tempest mass. That is basically the mass the tempest had before the great nano nerf.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1372 - 2013-05-22 19:24:03 UTC
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)

@ccp_rise
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1373 - 2013-05-22 19:39:37 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)


Thx im quite a bit happier now....
now im only concerned about its dmg application (esp with the TE nerf)
but i think we have to look at that a few weeks to months after the patch is deployed
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1374 - 2013-05-22 19:41:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)


It was me muhahahaha!!!! :P

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1375 - 2013-05-22 19:51:43 UTC
biased devs ....
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#1376 - 2013-05-22 22:23:33 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)

Sounds great. I have been playing around with the Tempest quite a bit now we know that this will be the final version. Have to say I'm loving it, the amount of possibilities for it is really interesting and fun to play around with. Will be good to see if they work in reality when they are put through their paces on Tranquility. This further agility and mass buff just tops it off even more. Looking like a really nice ship now, a long way from the poor state where we first started with the original proposal. Excellent work indeed Rise, the ship re-balance is in good hands it seems. Will let you know post odyssey on any further concerns.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1377 - 2013-05-22 22:43:07 UTC
That's a great news !
tarsin Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1378 - 2013-05-22 23:29:38 UTC
will the TFi be i inheriting the mass buff, or will it be exclusive to the tempest hull?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1379 - 2013-05-23 00:17:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Aww you guys spotted it so quick!

I kind of finalized it right before I left the office today so I figured I would post tomorrow =P But yes, as you can see in the OP we adjusted the mass of the Tempest down to 99500000 and the agility down to .116. This is actually a small change that resulted from a fairly detailed talk with Fozzie about the state of the Tempest heading for Odyssey. We both feel that this version looks solid for this release, and so there shouldn't be any more tweaks until after we've seen the aftermath of the entire battleship rebalance.

Thanks for the help, we'll talk again after release =)



Small but still larger than the previous 7 ms. The extra agility will make it not look like a fat thign that stay behind slowing down the fleet. At least that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
#1380 - 2013-05-23 00:37:02 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Garresh wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Garresh wrote:
...I don't like where the tempest is right now, but I'd say it's safe bet if it doesn't turn out well, it will be fixed within 2 months.

I'd like to see anyone in this thread do better.


I'll quote this back to you when the Tempest remains as broken as it is now in August.

As to your second assertion, I disagree. There have been many viable ideas proposed in this thread by longtime and very knowledgeable players that would have helped bring the Tempest up to par with the other battleships. Almost any of those would have been better than what we're finally getting in Odyssey.

The fact that Rise seems to think the current 'Pest is fine, as evidenced by his statements and his last very modest tweaks, don't bode well for you winning that "safe bet".


How about a wager? I'll bet 100 mil the tempest will be in a good place within 3 months after Odyssey launches. Ninja's honor. Lol

And to that other guy. I'm optimistic because I fly around in cruisers and frigs in lowsec all the time. I don't think eve has ever been this balanced. Ever. Their track record so far on tiericide is nearly flawless. I'm willing to give them the benefit for the doubt.



That is because they saved all their blunders for the battleships :P

But seriously we had promises of " tempest will be adjusted before next expansion, or we will look for a clear roel for it ver soon" for like 6 years... they were all lies at end, there is no reason why someone would believe this will nto continue when the PERFECT chance to change them came here.


I had stopped playign eve for 1 years and 2 months and returned because tiercide was reaching the battleships and I wanted to finnally fly these ships corrected and buffed (because battleships overall are TOO WEAK). But seems all my hopes were in vain.


I so agree with you. Battleships are too weak at the moment. The battleship is the most powerful ship designed, that's what they were meant to be, tanky, powerful and the backbone of a fleet. I did as well stop playing EVE for some time. I love the Tempest hull, it's a good ship, but it's so-so, it doesn't excel anywhere...

Amarr and Caldari have dedicated sniper boats, the Tempest could become our sniper easily with a falloff bonus, much like the Vargur or the Machariel, while keeping the 6 guns and a 7.5% RoF for the T1 version and adding a 7th gun for the Navy version. Because as it is, the Tempest is a good ship but can't match others at the same roles.

Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC