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New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#841 - 2011-11-04 11:36:23 UTC
Shmekla wrote:
Blaster boats do not need sped. engagement starting at 15 and what.. flying toward target, target kiting you, so you need more speed to catch them.. and even more speed to catch faster than he could kill you..
And then we have second minmatar.

Blaster boats need acceleration and agility that it could dash short range faster than opponent (projectile user.).
Leave speed for minmatar, give blaster boats agility.

Without revamping whole blaster concept we wouldn't move from this dead point.
ships are to sluggish to be used with shortest range gun system. if we give range, it would be invasion to other system fields, mainly projectiles.


That is the wrong way around... What if an engagement starts at 25 km? With gates this can happen quite easily, and now the acceleration is no longer enough to get the blaster close to the target, he's kited again. Same with any longer distance where acceleration no longer trumps speed. More agility only helps for distances which are already close to the range of blasters. How close depends on the agility boost and if the speed is changed at all for this. Also this has severe side effects, like a thorax orbiting a rupture not only easily but also faster, after all agility is what limits your speed when going a circle of a certain (small) radius.
Also keep in mind that you can of course still mount projectiles on that blasterboat, making it uncatchable again (with range advantage) for a real blasterboat.
Lastly it just doesn't fit with the lore or stats of Gallente ships, which tend to be quite heavy. Minmatar are the light ones and should be quick to turn. Which is one of the effects of good agility, not just acceleration...

With speed on the blaster side it would be something quite different. With nerfed agility it would effectively translate to straight-line speed. This has been requested many times in the form of a MWD or AB bonus, which I just don't think you can justify. Only specialized ships (ewar, remote rep) have a role bonus to become useful in their role. You can't give all blasterboats a role bonus just because the weapon system won't work without, you'd have to replace one of the existing bonuses. Then it becomes a disadvantage, since all other ships have 2 bonuses, helping them somehow, and not just something that's just necessary for them to do damage in the first place.
Zhephell
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#842 - 2011-11-04 12:43:10 UTC
I think that it is a good idea to improve hybrid weapons because there are penalized, but I see there are many players that don t understand that it is a balance, and it is complicated and need to be tactful. The intention is to balance weapons, not to have a balanced ship if you use bad fittings with other players that use good fittings.

Blasters have good dps, and gallente ships use many drones, so I´m not agree to increase the damage, I’m agree to improve the tracking, or put a 5% bonus to blaster optimal range. There are many players that say that pulsars have an optimal range of 45 km and blasters not, but amarr ships can t use mwd, and they use one of the 2 bonus to reduce capacitor consumption, bonus that gallente ships use to increase the damage, increase gallente ships speed is understandable, but some minmatar ships as tempest have to be faster that an hyperion because the tempest has less HP and can t tank as an hyperion.
But I am agree with actual blaster balancing , I think blasters buffs aren´t a problem, and I will not discuss to change 10 m/s by 5 m/s

For me the problem is in Rails. I am agree to improve 10% the damage, but I am totally disagree to reduce a 12% the power need to rail guns, ( I´m not talking about blaster pw)
Rails are long range weapons that use less power, that others ( t2 425 mm rails use 2625 of pw, and t2 tachyons 4125 of pw, and t2 1400mm use 3575 of pw) so with this change t2 425 mm will use 2300 of pw aprox. It´ll be overpowered in power grid , an apocalipse with 8 t2 tachyons need with ALL SKILL at lvl 5 2 slots with 2 reactor control unit 2 that gives 15% more pw, or 1 slot and 1 rig to increase the pw, and use 1 bonus to reduce lasers capacitor use. And I ´m not talking about other bs with tachyons.
At this moment an hyperion with all skills to lvl 5 can use 8 x t2 425 mm rails and it don´t need to increase the power grid, as the megathrone, and rocks needs only +1 of power grid
Caldari Ships have to be improved to be better in rails so i´m agree with increase a 10% the damage, but if this 12% pw reduction is apply I´ll be possible to use hyperion snipers that will be better that other snipers in 150-225 km range , I have use the eve fitting tools 2 and if you have the skills at lvl 5 this´ll be the result:

Low slots : 2 tracking enhancer II , 3 magnetic field stabilizers II , 1 damage control II
Med slots: 3 sensor booster II (2x targeting range), 1 tracking computer II (opt range) , 1 cap recharger II
High slots : 8x425 mm t2 rail guns
Rigs: 1 large field ionic projector I , 1 Large hybrid collision accelerator, 1 Large hybrid locus coordinator.

Now it can be used because you need more power grid and has only 8 min of capacitor, but doing this changes this´ll be the results : (skills lvl 5)
Dps with long range charges (no drones) : now 425 , with 10% more damage = 470
Effective HP = 58k
Targeting 250 km , scan resolution 178.8, optimal range : 191 + 58 of falloff , and more speed that other snipers

With this no one will want a rock or an apoc as sniper (true snipers will be worst), so please don´t do this 12% pw reduction in rails, and if you do this change the 5% damage bonus of gallente ships to 5% damage bonus only with blasters, and put a 10% blaster optimal range as compensation, but please don´t put a t2 and a t3 high dps sniper and fast high dps blaster boats at the same time. T T
Manar Detri
#843 - 2011-11-04 12:49:30 UTC
Zhephell wrote:
I think that it is a good idea to improve hybrid weapons because there are penalized, but I see there are many players that don t understand that it is a balance, and it is complicated and need to be tactful. The intention is to balance weapons, not to have a balanced ship if you use bad fittings with other players that use good fittings.

Blasters have good dps, and gallente ships use many drones, so I´m not agree to increase the damage, I’m agree to improve the tracking, or put a 5% bonus to blaster optimal range. There are many players that say that pulsars have an optimal range of 45 km and blasters not, but amarr ships can t use mwd, and they use one of the 2 bonus to reduce capacitor consumption, bonus that gallente ships use to increase the damage, increase gallente ships speed is understandable, but some minmatar ships as tempest have to be faster that an hyperion because the tempest has less HP and can t tank as an hyperion.
But I am agree with actual blaster balancing , I think blasters buffs aren´t a problem, and I will not discuss to change 10 m/s by 5 m/s

For me the problem is in Rails. I am agree to improve 10% the damage, but I am totally disagree to reduce a 12% the power need to rail guns, ( I´m not talking about blaster pw)
Rails are long range weapons that use less power, that others ( t2 425 mm rails use 2625 of pw, and t2 tachyons 4125 of pw, and t2 1400mm use 3575 of pw) so with this change t2 425 mm will use 2300 of pw aprox. It´ll be overpowered in power grid , an apocalipse with 8 t2 tachyons need with ALL SKILL at lvl 5 2 slots with 2 reactor control unit 2 that gives 15% more pw, or 1 slot and 1 rig to increase the pw, and use 1 bonus to reduce lasers capacitor use. And I ´m not talking about other bs with tachyons.
At this moment an hyperion with all skills to lvl 5 can use 8 x t2 425 mm rails and it don´t need to increase the power grid, as the megathrone, and rocks needs only +1 of power grid
Caldari Ships have to be improved to be better in rails so i´m agree with increase a 10% the damage, but if this 12% pw reduction is apply I´ll be possible to use hyperion snipers that will be better that other snipers in 150-225 km range , I have use the eve fitting tools 2 and if you have the skills at lvl 5 this´ll be the result:

Low slots : 2 tracking enhancer II , 3 magnetic field stabilizers II , 1 damage control II
Med slots: 3 sensor booster II (2x targeting range), 1 tracking computer II (opt range) , 1 cap recharger II
High slots : 8x425 mm t2 rail guns
Rigs: 1 large field ionic projector I , 1 Large hybrid collision accelerator, 1 Large hybrid locus coordinator.

Now it can be used because you need more power grid and has only 8 min of capacitor, but doing this changes this´ll be the results : (skills lvl 5)
Dps with long range charges (no drones) : now 425 , with 10% more damage = 470
Effective HP = 58k
Targeting 250 km , scan resolution 178.8, optimal range : 191 + 58 of falloff , and more speed that other snipers

With this no one will want a rock or an apoc as sniper (true snipers will be worst), so please don´t do this 12% pw reduction in rails, and if you do this change the 5% damage bonus of gallente ships to 5% damage bonus only with blasters, and put a 10% blaster optimal range as compensation, but please don´t put a t2 and a t3 high dps sniper and fast high dps blaster boats at the same time. T T


And what will you do when i warp next to you in my cheetah armed with 2 ac's and pop your ass? :)
Shmekla
I Have a Plan
#844 - 2011-11-04 12:53:27 UTC
Creat Posudol wrote:


That is the wrong way around... What if an engagement starts at 25 km? With gates this can happen quite easily, and now the acceleration is no longer enough to get the blaster close to the target, he's kited again. Same with any longer distance where acceleration no longer trumps speed. More agility only helps for distances which are already close to the range of blasters. How close depends on the agility boost and if the speed is changed at all for this. Also this has severe side effects, like a thorax orbiting a rupture not only easily but also faster, after all agility is what limits your speed when going a circle of a certain (small) radius.
Also keep in mind that you can of course still mount projectiles on that blasterboat, making it uncatchable again (with range advantage) for a real blasterboat.
Lastly it just doesn't fit with the lore or stats of Gallente ships, which tend to be quite heavy. Minmatar are the light ones and should be quick to turn. Which is one of the effects of good agility, not just acceleration...

With speed on the blaster side it would be something quite different. With nerfed agility it would effectively translate to straight-line speed. This has been requested many times in the form of a MWD or AB bonus, which I just don't think you can justify. Only specialized ships (ewar, remote rep) have a role bonus to become useful in their role. You can't give all blasterboats a role bonus just because the weapon system won't work without, you'd have to replace one of the existing bonuses. Then it becomes a disadvantage, since all other ships have 2 bonuses, helping them somehow, and not just something that's just necessary for them to do damage in the first place.


Oh come on. Engagement at 25km? Then you turn and warp of. Orbiting faster? Does this was exactly when veb was 90%?
Speed and no agility with shortest wepons? And then you will be outmanuvered even more badly than now.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#845 - 2011-11-04 13:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
(copy before posting, does wonders to your sanity)

What a pickle we have been all these years.

First, Gallente use hybrids, the worse turrets in the game by far.

Blasters have poor range, bad tracking, consume too much capacitor. Very easy to fix:

Change#1)Increase range, increase tracking, reduce capacitor usage.

Blasters should have the optimal almost as ridiculous as autocannons but little to no falloff whatsoever. That's right, a Brutix with the optimal of a nanocane. This ensures Gallente will always come out on top in close range brawls, as it is meant to be. If he wants to do his tango in his falloff we switch to null and bulldoze through. Forcing him to either warp off or force him to take his point off, allowing the Gallente pilot to disengage. If he wants to hold point on us he'll have to get way deep into void range taking away his risk free kill.

Which also reminds me!:

Change #2) Remove all penalties of T2 Blaster ammo. Simple.

Change #3) Either further increase optimal of Null or add some god-like autocannon amount of falloff.

Hybrids always needed some unique charm for them and this would be it. would be that their T2 ammo has no flaws and only change damage and range. T1 and Faction ammo also can do either more kinetic or more thermal damage, similar to Conflag and Multifrequency with Amarr. This with their drone bays would allow them to take on a much more varied amount of targets. So if a Brutix and a Hurricane warp to zero at belt 1 it can go either way, with player skill and fittings deciding who's traveling back to in a pod.

These changes have to be severe and make an impact. Instead of making confections for the cake, you need to start over from the beginning.

Secondly, we have Gallente hulls, which only qualities are enerally a larger drone bay and higher structure. Those don't make it worth it by the way. I'll propose my list of railguns and hull changes after work.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#846 - 2011-11-04 13:37:42 UTC
Shmekla wrote:
Creat Posudol wrote:


That is the wrong way around... What if an engagement starts at 25 km? With gates this can happen quite easily, and now the acceleration is no longer enough to get the blaster close to the target, he's kited again. Same with any longer distance where acceleration no longer trumps speed. More agility only helps for distances which are already close to the range of blasters. How close depends on the agility boost and if the speed is changed at all for this. Also this has severe side effects, like a thorax orbiting a rupture not only easily but also faster, after all agility is what limits your speed when going a circle of a certain (small) radius.
Also keep in mind that you can of course still mount projectiles on that blasterboat, making it uncatchable again (with range advantage) for a real blasterboat.
Lastly it just doesn't fit with the lore or stats of Gallente ships, which tend to be quite heavy. Minmatar are the light ones and should be quick to turn. Which is one of the effects of good agility, not just acceleration...

With speed on the blaster side it would be something quite different. With nerfed agility it would effectively translate to straight-line speed. This has been requested many times in the form of a MWD or AB bonus, which I just don't think you can justify. Only specialized ships (ewar, remote rep) have a role bonus to become useful in their role. You can't give all blasterboats a role bonus just because the weapon system won't work without, you'd have to replace one of the existing bonuses. Then it becomes a disadvantage, since all other ships have 2 bonuses, helping them somehow, and not just something that's just necessary for them to do damage in the first place.


Oh come on. Engagement at 25km? Then you turn and warp of. Orbiting faster? Does this was exactly when veb was 90%?
Speed and no agility with shortest wepons? And then you will be outmanuvered even more badly than now.


Yes of course you are outmaneuvered at close range. At least by Minmatar, it's what they do. The are nimble and can turn quickly. But that's why we got that extra tracking speed, so we have a chance to keep up with weapons. Not by moving the ship, but by moving the guns. Load tracking speed to tracking computer(s) and hope he isn't fit for full speed/agility but has a semblance of tank/dps. What he can't do is just fly away, since he'll have to do that in a more or less straight line or with actual pilot skill. Should he use the first, I'm faster. With the second it comes down to how well I can fly, which is exactly how it should me. He might get away, he might not.

Now to the 25km-not-engaging: Are you serious? So in your eyes it's like this: "Gallente are a fine race, but can only engage an enemy if closer than 20 km. Any more and they have to run and rewarp (hopefully) to a closer distance (because his target is gonna sit still in the meantime). Also if their target brought a tackler (tackle inty for example, can point from twentysomething km) they are severely screwed." Also note that the tackler can just be lucky at the gate (to keep the example) and be closer than that. It does NOT make a real difference if our Gallente ship also brought a tackler, only in very specific situations...
I'm sorry but there has to be at least an option for Gallente to at the very least fit for this. Currently they can't, not without gimping their tank to such a degree that they don't stand a chance anyway. Raising speed above Minmatar level and reducing maneuverability to such a degree that an average blaster orbit for such a ship results in approx. the same speed as it does now would resolve this, returning the advantage to the better pilot instead of basically having a fixed outcome depending on the range the fight was initiated.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#847 - 2011-11-04 13:37:55 UTC
BooooooBeeeeeer wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Would increasing minimum warp to distance to 250km not be a major help to rails too? This would allow extreme range sniper fleets. Even if they're a bit fail on alpha

It will not. Now, the ship can be found in 10 seconds, with combatprobs. Warp, aproch, scram = you're dead.



But on grid warping won't work... you would have to leave grid or move out of 250km
David Xavier
The Capsuleers of Unconscious Thought
#848 - 2011-11-04 13:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: David Xavier
@Zhephell

Railguns use more CPU than beam lasers. Using your comparison a tech II 425mm railgun uses 77 while a tech II Tachyon only requires 63.

In case of 8 weapons the difference is 112 CPU, that is quite a lot. So live with it, hybrid weapons require more CPU in exchange for less PG.

Let's looks at the rest :

  • Lasers have far better tracking. This frees up module or rig slots.
  • Even if you use tech II crystals you need far less cargo space to carry your ammunition with you.
  • Should you need a new or other type of crystal you can change to that instantly.
  • Have better damage, that is for now.


Instead of tracking enchanters you can fit other modules. Not to mention probes made sniping from 150km (warp range) or farther pointless.


On a side note artillery turrets require both less PG and less CPU than lasers, why don't you whine about that ?

I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy it !
RackotPrime
The Space Cossacks.
#849 - 2011-11-04 13:40:11 UTC
i do not support range increaseAttention
ammo remake, damage increase, ships balance, armor tank balance - YEAS, but i don`t wont new AC or lasers under blasters mark
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#850 - 2011-11-04 13:51:13 UTC
Shmekla wrote:


Oh come on. Engagement at 25km? Then you turn and warp of. Orbiting faster? Does this was exactly when veb was 90%?
Speed and no agility with shortest wepons? And then you will be outmanuvered even more badly than now.


Only by a good pilot in a minnie ship

Straight line speed means you can either try to charge at them or run away... a high agility ship will be able to fly circles around it only if the minnie pilot is good and the gallente pilot is bad.

Straight line speed is one of the keys to fix blaster boat hulls. Agility remains the area of Minnie ships. Remember, speed isn't everything if you can't turn quick enough.

Oh and engagement at 25km. overloaded points push out to 28km before we even think about faction points and skirmish links
Shmekla
I Have a Plan
#851 - 2011-11-04 14:49:19 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:


Straight line speed is one of the keys to fix blaster boat hulls. Agility remains the area of Minnie ships. Remember, speed isn't everything if you can't turn quick enough.

Wrong. Simple example.. taranis vs crusader. you must be very good pilot ant it is hard to approach target and stay in optimal range. and if you do not have agility you ease overshot. In other side crusader pilot has plentiful range so he not blathering himself with similar problems as taranis.

As blaster boats you must accelerate and desecrate fast, be agile because you have very small range for maneuvering.
if galente will get more speed and no agility it would be boost for minmatar. Because then, flying minmatar I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot.. And then he will be at low speed (scramed webed) with small optimal.. just target for practice.

In other hand if blaster boats would have great agility, it would leave much smaller range for maneuvering for minmatars.

Spugg Galdon wrote:

Oh and engagement at 25km. overloaded points push out to 28km before we even think about faction points and skirmish links

That ok, this is variable that make engagement more unpredictable.

General there is no point of talking about engagement at bigger ranges than 24km, because the main point is that you prey wont escape.
Dunmur
Tempered Logic
#852 - 2011-11-04 15:04:23 UTC
The way I see it ether way minmatar will have to give something up to the gallente. Speed or range take your pick but it will have to one of those 2.
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#853 - 2011-11-04 15:22:29 UTC
Shmekla wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:


Straight line speed is one of the keys to fix blaster boat hulls. Agility remains the area of Minnie ships. Remember, speed isn't everything if you can't turn quick enough.

Wrong. Simple example.. taranis vs crusader. you must be very good pilot ant it is hard to approach target and stay in optimal range. and if you do not have agility you ease overshot. In other side crusader pilot has plentiful range so he not blathering himself with similar problems as taranis.

As blaster boats you must accelerate and desecrate fast, be agile because you have very small range for maneuvering.
if galente will get more speed and no agility it would be boost for minmatar. Because then, flying minmatar I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot.. And then he will be at low speed (scramed webed) with small optimal.. just target for practice.

In other hand if blaster boats would have great agility, it would leave much smaller range for maneuvering for minmatars.


First of all: bad example! Interceptors aren't exactly the typical blaster boats even if they happen to fit blasters (like a Taranis). Interceptor fighting is even more problematic as a comparison since your controls are delayed (from the time you doublelick to turn to the time the ship actually reacts) and that makes a much bigger difference at 4 km/s compared to 1.5 km/s with a BS that needs at about half a minute to reach that speed.

How about we look at a thorax vs. rupture or mega vs. tempest? If I see the rupture/tempest come straight at me I can doubleclick in the reverse direction to "actively break" (twice as good deceleration compared to ctrl-space), if timed right he'll be right beside me when our speeds match, commence face melting. If I screw it up he'll have the advantage, as I said it comes down to pilot skill. Not as much with interceptors as the inherent control delays screw you much more than the actual opponent does.
If he decides to immediately try and keep range on me I'm screwed with just acceleration. I can't catch up, EVER. With straight line speed I'll at least get closer over time until I can start shooting, at which point he can try to break away, giving me trouble keeping up with his fast turns. But unless I'm in range I have a pretty easy time to compensate: If he is 15km away (I won't hurt him that much, even with large blasters) and does a 90° turn, I only need to compensate about 20° or so to adjust to a new interception point, which even with such a sluggish ship is not too big of a deal. If he then reverses I have to readjust (including distance I already closed to him) more like 60°, taking more time and speed, but I'm also closer and am therefore dealing at least some more damage.

But in any case: if I'm slow (web/scram), he's also slow for the same reason! Furthermore with a BS he WILL be in kill range! depending on the fit also mostly for cruiser sized ships/guns. The only time this is a serious problem is with frigs! Have I mentioned how badly that example represents what is generally referred to as blaster boats?

BTW: can't wait to get real-time joystick control! I do hope that happens some day soon...
Zogra
Hellenic Military System
#854 - 2011-11-04 15:31:53 UTC
Hello, game balance is fine players have adopted to it there is no need to change anything if you want my opinion.

Messing up with balance will result in an unbalance making hybrids OP and speed and interia modifier will make things even worst.

Sorry to say it but its a desperate BAD call in order to lure old ex hybrid players back into game but ur risking loosing your loyal dedicated players that are currently into game.

Blaster is already deadly from close range and its hard to walk away from a blaster when ur dual webed and mwd scramed.

Wrong wrong wrong balance tweaks i only agree on t2 Hail ammo changes otherwise its useless t2 ammo

I mean come on matar got the worst t2 ammo both from dmg types and stats dont they need some love?

leave the balance as it is dont mess with it dont change things we players have adopted and got used to.

How the hell i am gone walk away from the highest dps BS vindicator now that u buff its blasters and its speed and its interia modifier??

Nice balance tweaks u make gallente and maybe caldari OP and let matar and ammar to rot?

Wrong wrong wrong DONT tweak anything or else EvE crysis is inc.....

Game is already dying and now you show matar and ammar the exit door, nicely done CCP.......

Especially the matar will be in rly bad place cause ammar still got the highest dps and rage and tracking weapon the OP lazors but the matar had speed only and now u buff half of the ships with more speed making matar less attractive..

WRONG TWEAKS PERIOD.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#855 - 2011-11-04 15:48:05 UTC
Shmekla wrote:

Wrong. Simple example.. taranis vs crusader. you must be very good pilot ant it is hard to approach target and stay in optimal range. and if you do not have agility you ease overshot. In other side crusader pilot has plentiful range so he not blathering himself with similar problems as taranis.

As blaster boats you must accelerate and desecrate fast, be agile because you have very small range for maneuvering.
if galente will get more speed and no agility it would be boost for minmatar. Because then, flying minmatar I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot.. And then he will be at low speed (scramed webed) with small optimal.. just target for practice.

In other hand if blaster boats would have great agility, it would leave much smaller range for maneuvering for minmatars.



Interceptors are a different kettle of fish but I totally disagree about agility vs speed. With agility, a faster ship with similar or (really) better agility (minmatar) will always always kite you. You can't do anything other than watch him fly around you at a speed you can only dream of. However, you hit the nail on the head with the line "I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot". This is you using your agility to your advantage to out manoeuvre your target. If you get it wrong you're scrammed, webbed, and ******. Cause once you're in that <10km bracket you should die unless you're lucky.

Another thing about slow blaster blaster boats is that once you engage you're utterly committed. You don't have any means of escape other than spitting some ECM drones out and praying for the jam. A high speed low agility boat can point in a direction and try to burn away. You now have survivability too.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#856 - 2011-11-04 15:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviana Sevidon
With the last test on singularity I can only say that something radical needs to be done about hybrid weapons, ships and range.

A lot of people will flame me probably, but it might be best if we switch either the speed or the weapon bonuses with Minmatar.

For example Minmatar get to be still the fastest ships, but their projectile weapons now fill the role of blasters and rails.

Or the Gallente get the speed and agility of Minmatar hulls, while the Minmatar get the speed and agility of Gallente ships.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#857 - 2011-11-04 15:50:48 UTC
Just want to remind everyone that Caldari use Hybrids toooo D: Want damage bonus not range bonus on rails pleeeease.

Ferox #1
BooooooBeeeeeer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#858 - 2011-11-04 15:56:11 UTC
Quote:
Zogra wrote: .............

Zhephell wrote: ........


Or is it a Troll invasion. Or lovers of Minmatar and amar afraid that Gallenteans cease to be whipping boys.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#859 - 2011-11-04 16:00:40 UTC
BooooooBeeeeeer wrote:
Quote:
Zogra wrote: .............

Zhephell wrote: ........


Or is it a Troll invasion. Or lovers of Minmatar and amar afraid that Gallenteans cease to be whipping boys.


At leat Zhephell argued his position. Zogra has been aded to ignore list.
******* ***** plague...

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#860 - 2011-11-04 16:21:36 UTC
WTF is this ****? Did you people suddenly go brain dead? Guess I should post what I said earlier so you people can ******* clue in.

Tracking and fitting were issues but so is damage. Currently blasters have barely any DPS edge over AC without the range, versatility, capless firing, ammo size, customizable damage, escapability, etc that AC's and Minmatar have. I know you people doubt me about the damage statement but you can see it in EFT for yourself with just raw DPS numbers, much less all the variables you then have to add in.

As a blaster pilot you plow into the center of the battle and commit yourself 100% and subject yourself to all the scrams, drones, neuts, webs, etc. The blasters have pitiful range. They barely out damage AC's even in the optimal of that range and because of the range they need to be in they require tons more tracking. Add to the fact that blasters in their hay day were also combined with things like a Thorax launching 7 heavy drones. Then CCP buffed HP on all ship hulls. Then came rigs which buffed EHP even more. Then the other weapon systems got boosted. Blasters no longer were TOTALHELLDEATH if you came in range of them.

The changes are a first step but they are hardly enough. There needs to be not a range bonus or speed but a massive DPS and tracking boost to make them acceptable for the risk of flying straight into a fleet and committing 100% to the battle with no hope of escape. That is the Gallente way and IT WILL BE GLORIOUS!