Player Features and Ideas Discussion

give up people...

maybe in 5-6 months CCP will announce they have great plans for the tempest and the ship will get an additional 500 pg (see rifter balance).

He did not change agility. He gave us 7 ms speed. The agility change was a LIE. 0.001 agility is so small you cannot perceive!

Again, don't worry, if Tempest is clearly broken after Odyssey, we'll fix it.

I think 'broken' isn't very likely. The bigger problem, I think, is that Typhoon and Tempest are fighting for a very similar space in the meta because of both being fast, flexible battleships. Maelstrom will continue to be more popular in very large fights because of it's alpha and larger ehp as well as being more popular for pve because of it's strong tank. I'm not sure thats a big problem though. The Tempest is going to be extremely versatile, and will actually play a lot differently than the Typhoon, so I think they can happily co-exist.


Another small point - seems like a lot of people focused on the relationship between Tornado and Tempest. I'm playing around right now with standard shield AC fits for both and get the following stats:

Tornado: 22k ehp, 1580m/sec, 780dps

Tempest: 57k ehp, 1251m/sec, 860dps

The Tempest of course crushes the Tornado in a 1v1 (I know this isn't the most important way to compare them), and on top of that it has 2 high slot utility + some room to play with mid slots. There's a lot of factors at work (including price), and I know speed is probably the most important attribute to look at it, but there's still a very strong case here for the Tempest. On top of the way it competes directly within this fitting style, the Tempest can do all kinds of other things like armor tanking, remote repping, tackling, etc.

Anyway, the point is that we're watching it.

and heres is CLEARLY the problem....

tempest will be al little sub par (as it is now)...and you wont see it clearly as broken as you do now...and will do nothing/little cosmetic changes as you did now.
and that will be the end of it a ship wit sub par to ok stats on paper with no use in the game we enjoy beside cruiseing around the station cause it looks awesome.

i dont want to sound ungreatfull i like lots of the changes you made esp the hyperion/thyphoon which im going to fly but in my heart im a minmatar pilot and thats why its bleeding looking at the tempest which is is my fav bs (cause it got style and is vertical ;-) )

I think the relationship with Mega and Hyperion is pretty good. Its always been the case that minmatar ships can't really brawl at the same efficiency as Gallente, but a combination of damage projection, speed, and overall flexibility allow them to compete. Again, if you use 1v1 as a way to measure, I'll take Tempest over Megathron all day (I can even prove it! I once did a 1v1 for an eve-radio event against DJthebaron and I took a tracking disruption Fleet Tempest against DJ's Navy Mega and won). In broader application, they just offer different things, and I think the tension between them is relatively healthy.

As far as the Apoc agility thing, it is sort of a strange thing. First of all, the difference in align time comes from the mass, not the agility specifically, and it is traditional for Minmatar ships to have relatively high mass to counteract their high native max velocity.

With Amarr, we're kind of entering new ground by trying to have a faster, more agile option be viable, rather than forcing them all to simply sit and not move on grid. With the Apoc, rather than letting it compete for raw speed (which really wouldn't make much sense), we leaned it towards agility intentionally. It makes it stand out as being more "attack" versus its slower combat counterparts without putting tons of pressure on faster attack battleships like the Tempest and Typhoon, which ought to be the speed champions.

OK, I see the desire to push amarr there. But still hurts the racial identities a bit to have the tempest with more HP and apoc more agile.

I do not see how can the tempest be considered an enlarged BC if it takes more than almost any other battleship to warp.


The added mass to minmatar ships came only after the first nano nerf, I remember well of that. Before that minmatar had less mass as well. Its not traditional. Was a Mistake, an overreaction when CCP made the nano nerf that simply neutralized minmatar on battleship level. CCP was too scared of the nano phoon and overreacted.


Minamtar have been always described as LIGHT. And ccp screwed us on that! Most of our speed advantage vanishes when AB or MWD are on because of that. Minmatar should be just a bit heavier than gallente at MOST


The logic would be to even take some speed from the tempest if needed and reduce its mass. The base speed is not VERY important, the final speed adjusted by propulsion is.

If that cannot be done then at least boost its agility a bit more. Its pathetic that the tempest , the giant BC is the last Battlership in the field to warp off. That goes completely against the concept of hit and run of minmatar. I would be ashamed to bring a tempest on a hit an run gang exactly because of that. And if minmatar ships are bad in hit and run, then something is very wrong.



The 1v1 against gallente is obvious. The 2 neuts are very strong on 1v1, the problem relies on the fact that they are only on the 1v1. But in a gang, you will bring an armageddon now to neutralize enemies.

Second The boost on the range of Blasters simply has cut any range advantage of the tempest over the gallente ships inside the disruptor range. That by itself has cut one of the roles of the ship.



If you want the tempest to be a mobile battleship it needs to be close to typhoon in align time. Speed is irrelevant if take syou so long to accelerate that you cannot change directions and be effective in a proper fight with more targets than 1v1

Maelstrom is slow. It is the fleet ship.


If you want to keep the shield boost ship as the close range ship you need to do what I proposed earlier. Give maesltrom 5% DAMAGE per level and some other weak bonus like 7.5% shield ammount (not boost) or 5% falloff bonus.


Then give tempest 6 mids and 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost.


These are agressive changes but that reduce the conflict between those ships to enarly nothing.

Also allows ccp to reduce the damage of arties by 7.5% , increase their rof by 5%. Making the maelstrom a very strong alpha ship, stronger than abaddon, at same time reducing tornado alpha strike power.


Maelstrom is currenlty simply too slughish to be the small gang high repair ship. Its shield boost bonus is used only on station games and PVE currently.

I know they will not do it. But not because its too strong. But because for some strange reason other races can be turned upside down to fit the ships on their roles but not minmatar.

These changes to the maesltrom and tempest woudl be FAR more logical and useful than the changed on the typhoon.

Make mAelstrom a fleet ship, with clear fleet ship bonuses and roles. Make tempest a clear brawler. Simple.... and no one really can get unhappy.

as things are now i have lowered my expectations so far that i would be happy if theyd decreased mass by about 8%

and tell me they look at large AC's balanceing vs Blaster cause its actually the Blaster that make AC bs obsolete in longpoint range.

Hyperions speed should be nerfed to be inline with the other combat ships.


@CCP Rise, how about giving the Tempest an extra Mid slot.
8/6/6, keep it's high mass, keep it's ****** capacitor, keep it's shite power grid and cpu, it's 2 damage bonuses on 6 that aren't worth 1, keep the fact that the raven and typhoon do substantially more dps outside neut range, and that the megathron and hyperion do more within neut range.

Give it +1 more slot than it's peers, like you did to the old Cyclone vs the other BC's before the tier 2's, if the rules are flexible enough for 3 battleships to have 1 less slot, surely there flexible enough for 1 battleship to have 1 more slot.

It's the option with the least Q/A, it's the option that enables the greater variety of emergent game play, it's the option that sets it apart from it's piers, without overwhelming or over writing them, and you probably make the most people happy.

So CCP Rise... What do you say?

(I'm on my knees here. Last ditch saloon and all.)