Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Tbh, no one coming to my mind ever worked so close to the actual users regarding balancing till now. Just a couple concepts got completely dumped due to player-feedback. That's not what discrediting feedback looks like.

maybe but the speed isnt worth s*** with this mass you need to have better align time and acceleration to do what you must do (dictate range and terms) straight speed isnt gonna help thats why its not a buff worth to be named buff

I'll quote this back to you when the Tempest remains as broken as it is now in August.

As to your second assertion, I disagree. There have been many viable ideas proposed in this thread by longtime and very knowledgeable players that would have helped bring the Tempest up to par with the other battleships. Almost any of those would have been better than what we're finally getting in Odyssey.

The fact that Rise seems to think the current 'Pest is fine, as evidenced by his statements and his last very modest tweaks, don't bode well for you winning that "safe bet".

My aren't we optimistic, considering this is a decade old problem.

Tempest is some sort of sick joke.. You make the typhoon an ungodly killing machine and leave the tempest as total garbage compared to every other tier 2 bs. "Jack of all trades" is totally useless in eve, especially when it does such a poor job at most of these roles.

I am very pleased with CCP overall, when I last played actively 2-3 years ago PVP changes were exceedingly rare and we were stuck with the same stagnant meta (basically) since the nano nerf. I love most of the changes but I just don't see how the pest keeps getting overlooked when the player-base has agreed for years that it needs love. I don't need to go into the reasons why it's a bad ship since I'm sure it's been done multiple times by others and once by me in this thread, and hundreds more over the years. The TE nerf will destroy its "oversized shield cane" capability (though it was never good at that anyway), and overnerf many minmatar ships that didn't need to be touched. The hurricane was too strong and received the appropriate nerf, I don't think anyone would argue that the vaga, rupture or even cyna are overpowered in the current meta.

One thing i disagree, that he has a great approach. He is standarizing thinks. Like narrowing ships on these attack and combat roels, ignoreing the racial identities in favor of that.

Ships need their personal identities. So normalizing the signature of the ships size just for the sake of nromalization is not a good approach. It leaves the game in a poor state. Richness comes from diversity

Sorry I didn't bother to read to find out your reasoning before flaming the lack of tempest changes. You hit the nail on the head when you say these ships don't cater to common play-styles.

I think we can agree that <5 man BS gang is pretty niche in the current meta and most would pick different battleships even then. Which play-styles does the Tempest cater to in your opinion? I do understand it can technically fill some niche roles other BS cannot, but it doesn't even fill those niche roles well. Are you referring to shield/nano bs or armor bs with extra utility high?

One extra utility high is definitely not worth the low dps (plus fighting in falloff), and lack of lowslots for damage mod (2 less than mega). Also even the new pest with the barely noticeable mobility buffs is not nearly fast enough to compensate for the other weaknesses.

As a kiting ship, it's hugely outclassed by t3 bc's in all relevant aspects for a kiting ship. Also, the tempest requires a cap booster to utilize the bs sized mwd for an extended period of time and simply isn't fast enough to operate in a nano gang. Maybe a 10% damage bonus and mwd cap usage bonus would be interesting? This along with a more significant mobility buff would allow it to fill the role of a successful arty boat while also giving it a real ability to kite other bs.

Where are you getting the dps figures from with phoon vs. pest? First of all, as you know AC's must fight in deep falloff which greatly reduces dps. If both the phoon and pest armor fit, the phoon has nearly unlimited range with cruises WITH similar dps and freedom of any damage type while the pest is stuck with a much heavier hull, and severely limited effective range/dps. Also phoon gets the explosion velocity bonus and you can simply load furies and still hit to your targeting range. As an added bonus, the phoon is much faster and doesn't have to worry about transversal.. And it can fit target painters which can be applied while way outside of point range. A cruise phoon with a TP will fully damage any bc and do significant damage against cruisers, this is all assuming that no one else in your gang is webbing/painting. Also, if you are in a larger close range fleet, a torp phoon will do ridiculous damage (and has 125 drone bw).

Have you considered the effect the TE nerf will have on the already sub-par Tempest?

I appreciate your dedication and love the work you're doing, and do believe that you will watch the meta closely for future buffs. It's just that the proposed changes would not noticeably change the pest so you have years of previous data to refer to and the fact that nearly every other BS will be buffed to further lengthen the gap, I would think that it's clear the tempest needs a more significant change.

I've just been playing around with the Tempest some more and I'm changing my opinion on it. It actually looks quite good as an overall package in terms of all its stats. Looking at the original Tempest it beats it in every area by quite a bit. PG, EHP, capacitor, targeting range, sensors, speed, agility, mass, have all been boosted by quite a bit. Perhaps it could find a place in the meta. I'm going to wait until it is released in odyssey and see how it plays out. Will be back here to give feedback after then unless anything else significant comes up in the meantime.

To be fair, CCP made second passes on all the ships that have been recently rebalanced and to be honest, they've done a pretty good job, T1 Frigates and Cruisers are in the best place they've been in for years, maybe some are falling behind the pack but none are obsolete. T1 Battlecruiser rebalance was also good but needs some more work.

So in that light you can be confident that these changes aren't final and they will observe how the BS perform and make another pass on them if some aren't cutting it.

Yes he did make a comment a few pages back after the one telling us about the speed agility changes in which said he will be keeping a close eye on them and making any further changes necessary. I think he is worried about making a ship to powerful and so erring on the side of caution. I have confidence he will make necessary changes though judging from how well he has responded to feedback so far on the battleship rebalance in general.