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I would buy a PLEX if I could sell it for 2 billion ISK. How about you?

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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#81 - 2013-05-20 14:14:32 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
It always seems like cheating

What is your bottom line?


Exact opposite - I haven't payed a subscription in years and I feel like I'm cheating those who 'pay' to play the same game. At the end of the day, people buying PLEX with real life money keep people like me (leeches) playing Eve and add more actual people to interact with in the game - your real life money is paid over to make the game better for everyone so I thank you.


I don't see people PLEXing their game time as leeches, Eve would be a much paler and less interesting place without those players.

And for people that are out of work, or perhaps recovering from a medical condition, or those who are retired and home with not much money and nothing to do Eve and the PLEX to play program is a godsend.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-05-20 14:16:02 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Corrupted Destiny pointed out that if the ISK value of PLEX goes up then people will buy more of them and with more on the market the price will fall. The way to remedy that is for CCP to buy some off of the market directly until the price gets where they want it to be.

So they have the tools to raise or lower the price of PLEX in-game as needed.

I think a lot of the angst over this idea comes from those who find comfort in the idea that PLEX is controlled by the market, that CCP can't dictate the terms of their game time.

But in reality CCP has always had total and complete control of the game economy. They are the central bank of Eve with ultimate power to alter both the value and the velocity of ISK.


That has nothing to do with my post you quoted. I asked you on what you base your previous assertion that the numbers players who keep their accounts active with PLEX would remain the same even after CCP artificially inflates the price.

You don't have an answer, because you completely made that **** up and you're dodging the question to avoid eating crow, realizing that it makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that if gas prices go from $3/gallon to $12/gallon overnight, people would keep buying gas guzzling SUVs.

Also, yes, CCP has complete and total control over the economy. Completely correct. However, the extent to which they exercise their control is a completely different question. It's simple: they don't, with very few exceptions like removing ISK from botters or taking PLEX from the hangars of permabanned players and putting them on the market (which has the opposite effect of spawning 1 trillion ISK to inflate PLEX prices to 2 billion per unit, if you bother to rub a couple of brain cells together)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#83 - 2013-05-20 14:16:57 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Andski wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Anyways, I'm leaving now to go read some Ayn Rand to sixth graders at my local public library. See y'all in a couple of hours.


Is it Bad Literature Day at the library?


I always think of Ayn Rand as deep thinking for selfish 14 year olds.

Or if they continue to be completely selfish, deep thinking for sociopathic adults.


The funny thing is that Destiny was talking about suing CCP for messing with her in game items! lol I guess she hasn't finished the book yet =-)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-05-20 14:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
The funny thing is that Destiny was talking about suing CCP for messing with her in game items! lol I guess she hasn't finished the book yet =-)


I'm pretty sure the "reading Ayn Rand to sixth graders at the public library" post was a joke, just fyi

Also, I didn't know Ayn Rand's philosophy supports authorities setting hard price floors and ceilings. Interesting, please make more stuff up

Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I always think of Ayn Rand as deep thinking for selfish 14 year olds.

Or if they continue to be completely selfish, deep thinking for sociopathic adults.


I really can't understand those people. They literally think "Wow, why do people give away their hard-earned money to tsunami victims? It's their fault for living in an area vulnerable to tsunamis, where their homes, businesses and livelihoods could be wiped out in moments"

But it's not sociopathy, it's a ~philosophy~ because it's written in a book.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#85 - 2013-05-20 14:39:43 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

...
I have purchased currency in other games just to see what that would be like. The coolest part was the actual transaction, it felt like a shady deal in a dark alley where I was getting something that I wanted for a good price.
...
What is your bottom line?


OP is confirming RMT transactions in other games?

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#86 - 2013-05-20 14:40:18 UTC
Ayn Rand in EVE Online? Shocked

I mean WHAT? What´s next? Murakami´s Insights for Carebear Love?

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#87 - 2013-05-20 14:41:14 UTC
Andski wrote:

You don't have an answer, because you completely made that **** up and you're dodging the question to avoid eating crow, realizing that it makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that if gas prices go from $3/gallon to $12/gallon overnight, people would keep buying gas guzzling SUVs.

Also, yes, CCP has complete and total control over the economy. Completely correct. However, the extent to which they exercise their control is a completely different question. It's simple: they don't, with very few exceptions like removing ISK from botters or taking PLEX from the hangars of permabanned players and putting them on the market (which has the opposite effect of spawning 1 trillion ISK to inflate PLEX prices to 2 billion per unit, if you bother to rub a couple of brain cells together)

You just missed one of the earlier posts and I didn't catch it. The ISK price for PLEX remains exactly the same, CCP only subsidizes the value by adding redeemable goods packages to the PLEX up front.

So I buy a PLEX, I get the PLEX plus whatever redeemable Items that I choose from the options available. I still put the PLEX on the market to get actual ISK for it.

Destiny pointed out that this is a great deal and more people will probably buy PLEX which is part of the goal. But with more PLEX hitting the in game market the price will fall. The solution to that is for CCP to have buy bots that purchase PLEX directly from the market until the price gets where it needs to be.

This does inject some ISK into the markets that will have to sink out. But not as much as you might think because the majority of ISK being used to buy the PLEX will still be player generated. And the accelerated economy will also accelerate existing sinks.

This is just envelope math, but the idea is sound. Its very similar to the way central banks accelerate the economy right now, and CCP has even more tools to limit inflation on the back end.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#88 - 2013-05-20 14:46:03 UTC
The other neat thing about this is that it would be a great way to do a mobile Eve AP that many people would love to see. They could set up a virtual market in which you build ships and redeemable packages to your specifications right from your phone. Then when you get back to a game terminal you can redeem all the stuff that you built.

In this way they don't have to figure out how to interface mobile devices directly with the game servers, and people can still work on their in game stuff.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#89 - 2013-05-20 14:48:05 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

...
I have purchased currency in other games just to see what that would be like. The coolest part was the actual transaction, it felt like a shady deal in a dark alley where I was getting something that I wanted for a good price.
...
What is your bottom line?


OP is confirming RMT transactions in other games?



Oh Noes! THe international RMT police are probably on their way right now! I better hide Big smile
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-05-20 14:50:35 UTC
The only effect this will have is people switching from paying their subs the regular way to paying an extra $2.50 every month to cash in on the redeemables. They're not going to use them, they're going to sell them, and if it's an actual ship it'll depress the price of that ship to the point where industrialists can't compete. The alternative is that CCP creates a whole new line of ships to be redeemed by buying PLEX, which creeps into "premium non-vanity items" territory. Do I have to remind you what happened when CCP merely hinted at creating a "premium" line of ships redeemable through the NeX store?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#91 - 2013-05-20 15:12:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
The only effect this will have is people switching from paying their subs the regular way to paying an extra $2.50 every month to cash in on the redeemables. They're not going to use them, they're going to sell them, and if it's an actual ship it'll depress the price of that ship to the point where industrialists can't compete. The alternative is that CCP creates a whole new line of ships to be redeemed by buying PLEX, which creeps into "premium non-vanity items" territory. Do I have to remind you what happened when CCP merely hinted at creating a "premium" line of ships redeemable through the NeX store?


Sub is $15 per month for 1 month at a time, and it goes down a lot if you buy time in bulk. So the difference between a sub and a PLEX is $5 at a minimum. I think the type of people who are paying subs and buying PLEX sometimes are not so "careful" with their in game stuff either. For myself I would continue to buy game time in bulk and might buy a PLEX every now and then. I'm sure CCP has a better idea of how people react and exactly what measures would have to be taken in order to balance things out.

As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.

Micro transactions are the monetization model for DUST already, so in fact we will be seeing the influence that this type of program has. I bet its wildly successful there and easily incorporated into the overall Eve economy.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-05-20 15:29:40 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.


Yeah it's time for CCP to give their core players the finger, simply because "the game has places to go and things to do." Just like Sony did with SWG!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2013-05-20 15:36:11 UTC
I have bought plex to fund ships. I was working 70 hour weeks and it made little sense to raise isk in game at the time when I could buy isk legally and pvp instead.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#94 - 2013-05-20 15:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
As for the "premium" ships, yeah the "kick scream and whine" crowd spoke right up. But really CCP has been catering to them for far too long anyway. The game has places to go and things to do, can't hold back for a few poor sports.


Yeah it's time for CCP to give their core players the finger, simply because "the game has places to go and things to do." Just like Sony did with SWG!


That's not their core players, its a vocal minority that has managed to carve out a nitch by complaining about things that they don't like.

The core players are the ones who send CCP money to keep the servers up and the staff payed. If the forums are any indication that crowd is a lot more easy going. They seem to pay happily and spend some time looking around in Eve and having a good time challenging themselves against the hazards and complexities there.

Those are the people a game wants more of. And a shift in creating more in game value for those types of player will get more of them engaged with the game.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-05-20 15:46:55 UTC
Yes well I guess CCP should also add redeemable skillpoints to every PLEX sale because "**** da haters" am i right???

CCP didn't need forum whining to confirm that the playerbase was unhappy about Incarna, the PCU drop that took 2 1/2 years to recover from spoke for itself.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-05-20 15:57:28 UTC
But hey if you think your excellent ideas need to be implemented ASAP but CCP is too dumb or scared to do so, maybe you should go start a development house and design an MMO around your amazing ideas. If you're right, you'll be successful and vindicated. If not, you'll be deep in debt and starving. But that won't happen, right?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Velicitia
XS Tech
#97 - 2013-05-20 16:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Andski wrote:
The only effect this will have is people switching from paying their subs the regular way to paying an extra $2.50 every month to cash in on the redeemables. They're not going to use them, they're going to sell them, and if it's an actual ship it'll depress the price of that ship to the point where industrialists can't compete. The alternative is that CCP creates a whole new line of ships to be redeemed by buying PLEX, which creeps into "premium non-vanity items" territory. Do I have to remind you what happened when CCP merely hinted at creating a "premium" line of ships redeemable through the NeX store?


Sub is $15 per month for 1 month at a time, and it goes down a lot if you buy time in bulk. So the difference between a sub and a PLEX is $5 at a minimum.


and a PLEX is ~17.50 (34.95 for a 60d GTC from shattered crystal et. al.).


17.5 less 15 = 2.50, which happens to be less than 5.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#98 - 2013-05-20 16:08:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Yes well I guess CCP should also add redeemable skillpoints to every PLEX sale because "**** da haters" am i right???

CCP didn't need forum whining to confirm that the playerbase was unhappy about Incarna, the PCU drop that took 2 1/2 years to recover from spoke for itself.


We really have no idea what their metrics were and what took place in their conference rooms during that time. Perhaps the player uproar was anticipated and they went through with it anyway just for the media attention. Maybe 80% of the the accounts that were deactivated were secondary accounts and they wanted to thin those out anyway. So an apology and some great work on ship rebalance and numbers are back up, and maybe the new accounts are paying individuals.

I have seen a ton of people coming back after long away times since Incarna, and a lot of brand new players taking up the game. Perhaps that is a result of the media attention from Incarna. CCP doesn't share those figures, its interesting that certain people always assume that they are bad numbers, that CCP is losing subscriptions that they wanted to keep and that Eve is dying. Rather than consider the fact that player turn-over is part of the game and that maybe CCP is working that angle to get a new and different type of player in game. That is after all how Eve creates content.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#99 - 2013-05-20 16:08:51 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Look. Chances are if you are buying plex with isk, you are most likley earning less than minimum wage in a sense.


I earn far more than minimum wage, but I still get satisfaction from adding game time using PLEX that I bought with ISK. I don't get paid overtime, so it's not like I can just tell the boss, "I'm working an extra hour today so you can pay me the extra money I need to support my EVE Online hobby."

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2013-05-20 16:10:13 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm not a big buyer of in game currency. It always seems like cheating to me and ends up taking away more opportunity to interact with the game than it provides.

I have purchased currency in other games just to see what that would be like. The coolest part was the actual transaction, it felt like a shady deal in a dark alley where I was getting something that I wanted for a good price.

But after the fact the currency and the items that I bought with it felt empty of meaning in a way. I stopped playing that character soon after and left that game for a while.

In Eve PLEX is part of the game. Buying a few PLEX to start an investment is a great option, that can pay off in the long run because the investment could eventually start to buy PLEX to play. I think it can be argued that PLEX is one of the most innovative and important innovations in the history of gaming.

there have been a few times that I have thought about buying one; an investment that would have probably returned the money in a year or so, an expensive ship that I wanted to buy, and a few times just for the experience of dealing in one. To this point I have not, 20$ for .5 billion ISK never seemed to be worth it.

I was thinking about PLEX the other day and wrote out some of the pro's and cons, I'm not going to bore you with the details. The bottom line however was intersting, it came out to 2 billion ISK.

What is your bottom line?



I'd buy a plex when they sold for 400mil.

It's only 1 hr of RW work to afford a quick ship when I'm strapped for isk.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.