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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#1241 - 2013-05-19 07:08:48 UTC
I give up.

After all the solid ideas given in these many pages to bring the Tempest up to par with the other battleships, all we get is 7 m/s and less tank? Seriously?

Please explain to me the role you see the Tempest as filling, Rise. I'm very curious to know because as things stand now, it's outclassed by every other battleship (with the possible exception of the Raven). There is absolutely no reason to use a Tempest vs. another BS. None. The poor Tempest is simply sub-par in any potential role. The lack of focus, poor DPS, poor slot layout, poor tank and lack of speed/agility combined with the upcoming price increases mean that the Tempest will continue to languish underused.

Also, what's up with making Minmatar ships more massive, slower and less agile? I don't understand. Can you please explain this?

Thankfully I trained up my missile skills long ago. I guess I'll stock up on Typhoons if I want to stick with flying Minmatar BS.

Many thanks to those of you who have fought bravely over the last 30 or so pages by offering some interesting and viable ideas on how to save the Tempest. Maybe one day we'll get a usable Tempest. Sadly, that day won't be June 4th.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1242 - 2013-05-19 07:13:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#1243 - 2013-05-19 09:18:09 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.


The 10% damage bonus you just proposed is only doing 6% less damage than the 7.5% rate of fire bonus which you just claimed Nikon was being overpowered for proposing. And when you take account of reload times they are probably about equal. Nothing wrong with a 7.5% rate of fire bonus in my opinion, especially if you agree with a 10% damage bonus which along with doing equal dps to the rate of fire bonus, would also make the Tempest the alpha king.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1244 - 2013-05-19 10:22:35 UTC
Those 4 tech-1 battleshipthreads...

Amarr: Our ships are bad because we can't run level 4s perfectly with those cap issues!
Gallente: Our ships are bad for level 4s!
Caldari: Raven does to little damage to L4 rats!
Minmatarr: Need a third battleship!

It sounds like a lot of winmatar whining comes from mostly pvp-people posting here...
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1245 - 2013-05-19 10:38:40 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.


The 10% damage bonus you just proposed is only doing 6% less damage than the 7.5% rate of fire bonus which you just claimed Nikon was being overpowered for proposing. And when you take account of reload times they are probably about equal. Nothing wrong with a 7.5% rate of fire bonus in my opinion, especially if you agree with a 10% damage bonus which along with doing equal dps to the rate of fire bonus, would also make the Tempest the alpha king.


A 10% damage bonus would give it only 12.5% extra alpha over the Maelstrom and Tornado. If it was kept as a armor tanking ship, comparing a two gyro Tempest and a three gyro Maelstrom gives only a ~6% extra alpha bonus, which is handily countered by the currently higher EHP of the Maelstrom. A one gyro Tempest would have only a ~3% alpha bonus over a two gyro Maelstrom, and still less tank.

What a 10% damage bonus would do is make an even clearer distinction between the Tornado and Tempest as projectile platforms - the Tempest would have an undeniably higher alpha, at the cost of being bigger, slower, more expensive, slower locking and so on, as well as having less total turret DPS. At the levels of Alpha the tornado and other large projectile ships can throw down already, that difference only matters when you're stacking so many that you start instapopping battleships - the lower EHP of tempests compared to Maelstroms means that equal numbers of Maelstroms and Tempests will favour the Maelstroms even in terms of instapopping - the Maelstrom can easily have a much larger advantage in terms of EHP than even 12.5% HP.

I really do think that the Tempest would work much better with a set of bonuses like 10% Damage/10% Falloff than with the current dual damage bonuses. If nothing else, the fact that Minmatar are the only race where the T3 BC literally does outrange the battleships seems to me to be fairly ridiculous.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1246 - 2013-05-19 10:44:22 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.



A 10% damage bonus would not be helpign with defining the roles of thee ships. THe choice of roles is very well tought to keep the maelstrom as the fleet ship, and the tempest as a viable AC boat. On both cases the ships loose DPS. But the malestrom gains alpha strike (that is the reason aI say CCP could take this change to reduce the alpha of the arties , by adjusting damage and ROF by about 10%). The tempest, on other hand, while with a bit less DPS would be able ot USE its speed as a brawler against other battleships 7/6/6 and a shield boost tank.

Shield boost bonus screams AC, not arties. Its only logical you put the bonus on the correct ship for them. Currently, PVP wise the maelstrom shield boost bonus is almsot not used at all (I do not consider station games as a very meaningful PVP sample). This set of changes owoudl put maelstrom as the arti ship for fleeets, ahead of ABaddosn that currently are better than maelstrom as arti boats on fleets and ahed of tornados IF ccp use this chance to reduce a bit the alpha of the guns).

Basically everyoen would be happy. Fleet players get happy, Small scale PVP gets happy, other plaeyrs get happy with less tornados blapping their cruisers at station undock :P (the maelstrom cannot lock remotely as fast so no it would not simply replace the tornado on that role).





Minmatar were the race whose battleshis were more confused and not matchign bonuses to roles, yet CCP decided to put upside down the ships from other races, that did not had such need to be put upside down , and neither were wanted (just see the revolt at amarr thread).

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1247 - 2013-05-19 10:45:38 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Those 4 tech-1 battleshipthreads...

Amarr: Our ships are bad because we can't run level 4s perfectly with those cap issues!
Gallente: Our ships are bad for level 4s!
Caldari: Raven does to little damage to L4 rats!
Minmatarr: Need a third battleship!

It sounds like a lot of winmatar whining comes from mostly pvp-people posting here...



ppl complain where they see the greatest issues....
there are enugh pve options for minmatar pilots and dont heaveing the perfect LVL 4 runner at tech 1 bs is fine cause none of the 4 races has that. (navy, pirate, tech 2 are another topic)
so if you remove lvl 4 issues from your list minmatar is the only race left with a issue lot of ppl complain about.
as you said it concerns mostly pvp cause nobody right in their minds would even want to fly the tempest in pve.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1248 - 2013-05-19 10:46:19 UTC
Syreniac wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.


The 10% damage bonus you just proposed is only doing 6% less damage than the 7.5% rate of fire bonus which you just claimed Nikon was being overpowered for proposing. And when you take account of reload times they are probably about equal. Nothing wrong with a 7.5% rate of fire bonus in my opinion, especially if you agree with a 10% damage bonus which along with doing equal dps to the rate of fire bonus, would also make the Tempest the alpha king.


A 10% damage bonus would give it only 12.5% extra alpha over the Maelstrom and Tornado. If it was kept as a armor tanking ship, comparing a two gyro Tempest and a three gyro Maelstrom gives only a ~6% extra alpha bonus, which is handily countered by the currently higher EHP of the Maelstrom. A one gyro Tempest would have only a ~3% alpha bonus over a two gyro Maelstrom, and still less tank.

What a 10% damage bonus would do is make an even clearer distinction between the Tornado and Tempest as projectile platforms - the Tempest would have an undeniably higher alpha, at the cost of being bigger, slower, more expensive, slower locking and so on, as well as having less total turret DPS. At the levels of Alpha the tornado and other large projectile ships can throw down already, that difference only matters when you're stacking so many that you start instapopping battleships - the lower EHP of tempests compared to Maelstroms means that equal numbers of Maelstroms and Tempests will favour the Maelstroms even in terms of instapopping - the Maelstrom can easily have a much larger advantage in terms of EHP than even 12.5% HP.

I really do think that the Tempest would work much better with a set of bonuses like 10% Damage/10% Falloff than with the current dual damage bonuses. If nothing else, the fact that Minmatar are the only race where the T3 BC literally does outrange the battleships seems to me to be fairly ridiculous.


THe alpha role shoudl be of the maesltrom. Its no use to force both ships in the same role. Yes you could exchange the Shield HP bonus I proposed on the maesltrom for a 5% falloff bonus and that woudl keep it as the arti boat. No it cannot be a large 10% per level because on large projectiles realm that grows up too fast I would think.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1249 - 2013-05-19 10:48:33 UTC
Running level 4's has no plae at a ship balance discussion. Level 4's use t1 battleship as stop gaps beofre the real mission runners. IF they loose 5-7% of tneir mission speed that will hardly make any ship useless or uninportant.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1250 - 2013-05-19 10:53:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Syreniac wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.
I very much doubt we'll be seeing +7.5%/level RoF bonuses on ships except very occasionally - it's a huge bonus, and one that rewards high levels of skill too much. Yes, it 'only' gives 9.6 turrets to the Tempest, but still. You'd be more likely to be listen to if you campaigned for +10% damage/level - a smaller, but still large, bonus.


The 10% damage bonus you just proposed is only doing 6% less damage than the 7.5% rate of fire bonus which you just claimed Nikon was being overpowered for proposing. And when you take account of reload times they are probably about equal. Nothing wrong with a 7.5% rate of fire bonus in my opinion, especially if you agree with a 10% damage bonus which along with doing equal dps to the rate of fire bonus, would also make the Tempest the alpha king.


A 10% damage bonus would give it only 12.5% extra alpha over the Maelstrom and Tornado. If it was kept as a armor tanking ship, comparing a two gyro Tempest and a three gyro Maelstrom gives only a ~6% extra alpha bonus, which is handily countered by the currently higher EHP of the Maelstrom. A one gyro Tempest would have only a ~3% alpha bonus over a two gyro Maelstrom, and still less tank.

What a 10% damage bonus would do is make an even clearer distinction between the Tornado and Tempest as projectile platforms - the Tempest would have an undeniably higher alpha, at the cost of being bigger, slower, more expensive, slower locking and so on, as well as having less total turret DPS. At the levels of Alpha the tornado and other large projectile ships can throw down already, that difference only matters when you're stacking so many that you start instapopping battleships - the lower EHP of tempests compared to Maelstroms means that equal numbers of Maelstroms and Tempests will favour the Maelstroms even in terms of instapopping - the Maelstrom can easily have a much larger advantage in terms of EHP than even 12.5% HP.

I really do think that the Tempest would work much better with a set of bonuses like 10% Damage/10% Falloff than with the current dual damage bonuses. If nothing else, the fact that Minmatar are the only race where the T3 BC literally does outrange the battleships seems to me to be fairly ridiculous.


THe alpha role shoudl be of the maesltrom. Its no use to force both ships in the same role. Yes you could exchange the Shield HP bonus I proposed on the maesltrom for a 5% falloff bonus and that woudl keep it as the arti boat. No it cannot be a large 10% per level because on large projectiles realm that grows up too fast I would think.


Tempest with 10% damage per level: 6*1.5 = 9

Maelstrom with 5% damage per level: 8*1.25 = 10

10>9

You're already asking for a higher alpha than a 10% damage Tempest would have, and if you read the post I list a whole range of reasons why the Tempests higher Alpha isn't even as great a bonus as people might think.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#1251 - 2013-05-19 11:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Those 4 tech-1 battleshipthreads...

Amarr: Our ships are bad because we can't run level 4s perfectly with those cap issues!
Gallente: Our ships are bad for level 4s!
Caldari: Raven does to little damage to L4 rats!
Minmatarr: Need a third battleship!

It sounds like a lot of winmatar whining comes from mostly pvp-people posting here...


It is actually more like this:

Amarr: No issues, Abaddon needs less cap for guns a bit more to rep, Apoc loses effectively 5% damage or 5% optimal for L4(while gaining 7.5% more tracking), all high end hulls get considerably buffed(I can finally get rid of that single cap recharger on my tach paladin with the cap and pg reduction on beams).
Gallente: 1142 DPS @ 51+58km rail/sentry hype with a usable tank looks very good compared to the old mega/domi and navy domi is still a kick ass rail/sentry platform.
Caldari: Raven gets the biggest buff since the torp buff 5 years ago(that was also a 33% dps buff). 1k DPS CM raven is damn competitive to any high skilled L4 bs(free damage type selection, can kill frigs at any range, no dps loss to falloff, no tracking issues). It is basically like creating a BS around the old tangu stats. However this is not a bad thing if you look at pvp, since the considerable faster raven with more med range dps and another mid for a painter actually looks quite good.

The problem with the Tempest is that a Mega/Hype will be not much slower while they still out damage the Tempest everywhere in standard 24km point range(with the better tank on top of that), the phoon and raven will be considerable better at medium range, it lacks the slot layout to be a ok armor artillery platform and it even loses range with the TE nerf. This can't be resolved with the fitting, It actually needs touching the base concept and deciding what a tempest should actually accomplish for pvp in a way, where you wouldn't be better off with another hull. The only thing I and many others want is that the tempest becomes a fair option, be it as a med range shield BS or armor platform instead being something in-between both roles, without being able to properly fill any of them.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1252 - 2013-05-19 13:07:06 UTC
Syreniac wrote:

Tempest with 10% damage per level: 6*1.5 = 9

Maelstrom with 5% damage per level: 8*1.25 = 10

10>9

You're already asking for a higher alpha than a 10% damage Tempest would have, and if you read the post I list a whole range of reasons why the Tempests higher Alpha isn't even as great a bonus as people might think.


For god sake READ before posting. Yes i am askign to Increase maesltrom alpha on the cost of DPS and reducing the BASE ALPHA OF ARTIES.

READ before posting. So hard? I do not think TEmpest with high alpha is bad, jsut useles because that role is already taken by other ships and the tempest need a proper role!!

For god sake.. its so easy tounderstand.. how in hell you manage to missunderstand somethign so simple? I kind of understand now how come there are peopel that might think -0.001 agility is a significant boost to a ship.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1253 - 2013-05-19 13:59:06 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Those 4 tech-1 battleshipthreads...

Amarr: Our ships are bad because we can't run level 4s perfectly with those cap issues!
Gallente: Our ships are bad for level 4s!
Caldari: Raven does to little damage to L4 rats!
Minmatarr: Need a third battleship!

It sounds like a lot of winmatar whining comes from mostly pvp-people posting here...


It is actually more like this:

Amarr: No issues, Abaddon needs less cap for guns a bit more to rep, Apoc loses effectively 5% damage or 5% optimal for L4(while gaining 7.5% more tracking), all high end hulls get considerably buffed(I can finally get rid of that single cap recharger on my tach paladin with the cap and pg reduction on beams).
Gallente: 1142 DPS @ 51+58km rail/sentry hype with a usable tank looks very good compared to the old mega/domi and navy domi is still a kick ass rail/sentry platform.
Caldari: Raven gets the biggest buff since the torp buff 5 years ago(that was also a 33% dps buff). 1k DPS CM raven is damn competitive to any high skilled L4 bs(free damage type selection, can kill frigs at any range, no dps loss to falloff, no tracking issues). It is basically like creating a BS around the old tangu stats. However this is not a bad thing if you look at pvp, since the considerable faster raven with more med range dps and another mid for a painter actually looks quite good.

The problem with the Tempest is that a Mega/Hype will be not much slower while they still out damage the Tempest everywhere in standard 24km point range(with the better tank on top of that), the phoon and raven will be considerable better at medium range, it lacks the slot layout to be a ok armor artillery platform and it even loses range with the TE nerf. This can't be resolved with the fitting, It actually needs touching the base concept and deciding what a tempest should actually accomplish for pvp in a way, where you wouldn't be better off with another hull. The only thing I and many others want is that the tempest becomes a fair option, be it as a med range shield BS or armor platform instead being something in-between both roles, without being able to properly fill any of them.

problem with raven is u got 1k dps on papper but to apply it is very bad so u end up with crap dps fly the ship discover the issue then post your stupid opinion ..hit frigates with cm for what 30-40 dps ? ccp just boosted some bs's with this patch and ****** up badly others ...thats how they work they cant do a 100% propper job they do only 50-50 and ccp rise is giving 0 fucks about this also cuz he isnt posting anything anymore on this treath to reply to us or if is a reply is like : we will look after patch and fix it in the future ..wich is a ******** answer considering the only reason they got a job is because we PLAY if we would quit they would be laid off
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1254 - 2013-05-19 14:08:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yeah I know they would have to use the same standard they used with Gallente ships. And we cannot have that right?

Another advantage of my approach is that if CCP deemed needed they can reduce arties alpha (keepign DPS) by aroudn 10%, helping nerf the tornado blappers a bit.

If someone can dare to say thisis too much I woudl be satisfied and dare to anyoen realistically say would not be way more fun than right now:

maelstrom 5% damage per level 7.5% shield HP per level (2 weak bonuses on a strong hull)

Tempest 7.5% rof and 7.5% shield boost 7/6/6 Less dps even, but with a LOT more takability for short periods, therefore a great brwler ships that doe snto compete with tornado, or maelstrom or typhoon.

your ideea on maelstrom is so ******** it amazes me ..we curently turned this topic into a "ccp boost ******* tempest" if they would do maelstrom like u sugest then we would open a boost maelstrom topic or "keep it same bonuses" problem with minmatar starts at guns autocannons have a very low dmg modifier and a high rof if they would lower the rof and boost the dmg from the 800/650/425 autos the 5%rof +5 % dmg bonus to tempest would be more then ok but ccp needs to redoo the layout slots on the tempest ..cuz i agree with u ..hyperion rocks ..geddon ...has cpu issues with a torpedo fit like u sugested but works as for tempest it cant be armor buffed cuz u dont have neither big hp neither high resist neither good dps ..a hurricane doese better ...as for shield ..well everything that goese same as your speed or faster warp scram's u and u'r buff dies as i said ...but ccp should do what they intended in the first place as in to make the tempest a shield bs ..thats why vargur is shield tanked and tribal pest has a slot layout familiar to be better with a shield tank also ...so they would just need to replace the maelstrom bonuses with tempest like they did (mega / hyp ) and on the maelstrom focuse that ship on either armor + max dmg or shield + max dmg (like hyp / abaddon / )



You could try to organize your toughts before posting.

My maelstrom idea is nto a boost to it. In fact it becomes a bit weaker on most uses not its main role. Its a FOCALIZATIOn. The things that minamtar is lacking. It coudl require some adjutments to reduce arti alpha a bit. But that woudl be good because tornado is currently too powerful of an alpha ship.

It sovles several problems, keep ships in specific roles, REAL roles, not imaginary ones, with bonuses taht match their usage.

Bro its CCP u should see how they fit theyre ships on test server ..they got no clue how this things actually work they are hired cuz they are good at developing shinny **** but in terms of ships rebalancing and focusing they got no clue what they doing ..they are like a 2 year old trying to drive a plane ..presses the buttons in the cockpit and hopes the engines start ...the t3 bc introduction killed bs's no matter how much they try to boost it or change it with the introduction of the tier 3 bc's they killed them also this is another thing they do ...insteed of fixing older problems they introduce new **** in hoping it solves it ( ancilary reppers ) wich killed deadspace mods price wich is basicly a waste of time to run plex'es anymore ..they said in the bs price topic that all the bs's will stay at tier 3 price cuz people make easy isk ...how they see us making easy isk i dono ...belt rats r dead ..officers r tough to kill and drop 300 m in loot if lucky and barely spawn plex'es drop only overseer mods im serious they are like kids trying to fly a plane ...got no ******* clue what they are doing and how introducing a new thing affects another they cant see that this is like a chain u **** something up ...everything gets ****** up
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1255 - 2013-05-19 14:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: TehCloud
Gargantoi wrote:

Bro its CCP u should see how they fit theyre ships on test server ..they got no clue how this things actually work they are hired cuz they are good at developing shinny **** but in terms of ships rebalancing and focusing they got no clue what they doing ..they are like a 2 year old trying to drive a plane ..presses the buttons in the cockpit and hopes the engines start ...the t3 bc introduction killed bs's no matter how much they try to boost it or change it with the introduction of the tier 3 bc's they killed them also this is another thing they do ...insteed of fixing older problems they introduce new **** in hoping it solves it ( ancilary reppers ) wich killed deadspace mods price wich is basicly a waste of time to run plex'es anymore ..they said in the bs price topic that all the bs's will stay at tier 3 price cuz people make easy isk ...how they see us making easy isk i dono ...belt rats r dead ..officers r tough to kill and drop 300 m in loot if lucky and barely spawn plex'es drop only overseer mods im serious they are like kids trying to fly a plane ...got no ******* clue what they are doing and how introducing a new thing affects another they cant see that this is like a chain u **** something up ...everything gets ****** up



Did I just get this right. A TEST-Lemming complains about how CCP has no idea how this game works and that ISK making in null is not easy, because Officer Spawns are too rare.

I don't have enough hands to facepalm appropriately.

My Condor costs less than that module!
Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#1256 - 2013-05-19 14:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Caljiav Ocanon
Regarding the Tempest.

So I can't fit a decent amount of DPS on the ship for PVP, and in PVE it needs a 500+m ISK shield tank setup just to be viable unless you forgo a prop mod.

What's the point again? If I was building a glass cannon Minmatar Alpha ship I would do it with a much cheaper Tornado, not the Tempest. Same results for a lot less ISK. I just don't get it.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1257 - 2013-05-19 15:27:11 UTC
LOLTempest:

AC Fits-

Active Armor- 650s plus Torps. You can tank most of one BS's damage or multiple small ships' while putting out 900ish DPS before overheating. Lowsec toy.
Buffer Armor - 800s plus torps or neuts. Your choice of mediocre tank + anemic DPS or sad tank and mediocre DPS.
Buffer Shield - 800s plus torps or neuts. I would only run this in a gang with dedicated tackle. MWD, Cap booster, and three mids and all rigs dedicated to tank as well as a suitcase. Good luck with making this a fleet doctrine.

Arty Fits-
The problem is ease of play. The Tempest gets only half a turret less alpha then the Mael. But you need to train Minmatar BS to level 5 to achieve that. Fitting Cruise in the two utility slots is possible - but very lol in a fleet setting.

Armor Variant:
Pro: TC will have more range potential and you can fit two of them.
Con: To get max gank your sad tank will consist of a 1600mm plate, one EANM, and a suitcase - plus two trimarks. Less Alpha then Mael.

Shield Variant:
Pro: Fast and nimble. More tank at least then a Tornado. You can still get more range then a Mael with two TE.
Con: Less tank and alpha then the Mael. And where can we squeeze in a sensor booster?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1258 - 2013-05-19 16:04:48 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
LOLTempest:

AC Fits-

Active Armor- 650s plus Torps. You can tank most of one BS's damage or multiple small ships' while putting out 900ish DPS before overheating. Lowsec toy.
Buffer Armor - 800s plus torps or neuts. Your choice of mediocre tank + anemic DPS or sad tank and mediocre DPS.
Buffer Shield - 800s plus torps or neuts. I would only run this in a gang with dedicated tackle. MWD, Cap booster, and three mids and all rigs dedicated to tank as well as a suitcase. Good luck with making this a fleet doctrine.

Arty Fits-
The problem is ease of play. The Tempest gets only half a turret less alpha then the Mael. But you need to train Minmatar BS to level 5 to achieve that. Fitting Cruise in the two utility slots is possible - but very lol in a fleet setting.

Armor Variant:
Pro: TC will have more range potential and you can fit two of them.
Con: To get max gank your sad tank will consist of a 1600mm plate, one EANM, and a suitcase - plus two trimarks. Less Alpha then Mael.

Shield Variant:
Pro: Fast and nimble. More tank at least then a Tornado. You can still get more range then a Mael with two TE.
Con: Less tank and alpha then the Mael. And where can we squeeze in a sensor booster?


Lol tank most battleship dps? You realize almsot ANY battleship will tank MORE while dealing same DPS? Check the Hyperion and see how your fancy active armor tempest is useful... or even the megatron.

Tempest is a FAIL ship that is used only because looks cool.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1259 - 2013-05-19 16:07:58 UTC
I have another simple quesiton to RISe.. How in HYELL amarr attack BS warps faster than tempest? You know Amarr .. supposed to be the LEAST agile and mobile race. Against minamtar.


How in hell CCP cannot see that they are doign everything wrong this time?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1260 - 2013-05-19 16:17:51 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Gargantoi wrote:

Bro its CCP u should see how they fit theyre ships on test server ..they got no clue how this things actually work they are hired cuz they are good at developing shinny **** but in terms of ships rebalancing and focusing they got no clue what they doing ..they are like a 2 year old trying to drive a plane ..presses the buttons in the cockpit and hopes the engines start ...the t3 bc introduction killed bs's no matter how much they try to boost it or change it with the introduction of the tier 3 bc's they killed them also this is another thing they do ...insteed of fixing older problems they introduce new **** in hoping it solves it ( ancilary reppers ) wich killed deadspace mods price wich is basicly a waste of time to run plex'es anymore ..they said in the bs price topic that all the bs's will stay at tier 3 price cuz people make easy isk ...how they see us making easy isk i dono ...belt rats r dead ..officers r tough to kill and drop 300 m in loot if lucky and barely spawn plex'es drop only overseer mods im serious they are like kids trying to fly a plane ...got no ******* clue what they are doing and how introducing a new thing affects another they cant see that this is like a chain u **** something up ...everything gets ****** up



Did I just get this right. A TEST-Lemming complains about how CCP has no idea how this game works and that ISK making in null is not easy, because Officer Spawns are too rare.

I don't have enough hands to facepalm appropriately.


lol isk "lemming" bro this isnt about corporations or alliances is about ccp ruining this game for all of us but u to dumb and try to use troll powers but fail ...serpentis + delve r the best regions in this game and belive me bro when a officer comes and drops u 300 m ..it leaves u with a grim face ...at least we get lucky somethimes and hit vindicator bpc's other then that isk making in this regions is = 0