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Tier 3 BCs Nerfed to **** pre-release
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Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-11-03 20:59:39 UTC
Quote:
And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship


Umm, how?
It was made to give pilots the choice between a decent hybrid and missile boat. Going with just one completely shafts people who trained for the other half of the Caldari lineup.

Now it's just awful at both.
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#22 - 2011-11-03 21:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
Princess Cellestia wrote:
Jill Antaris wrote:
The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.


The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.

Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.


I actually didn't found it this hot, given that it didn't got the awesome med range abilities of the Tornado or Oracle and torps got far more limitations against sub BS sized targets than the guns.

950 DPS ish fleet torp ship, fitted for maximum anti BS damage, needs a named DCU or a CPU imp. However the range is just like 25km(35 with T2) and with serious dps reduction against sub BS targets. It wasn't particularity fast and has to operate at a range where you will have to take massive damage from aks and puls. Basically you could also use a raven with 1-2 nanos on trading 3-400m/s(given that most of your targets would be BS and you need to stay close to them anyway not really a horrible drawback) for a bit more DPS(drones and 2 med guns) and more than twice the EHP.

[Naga, Naga Torps]

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I



600+ DPS(including the rail damage buff) sniper at 99+49km, however only like 40 ish dps ahead of the old Oracle concept w/o the damage bonus, what means it will be most likely a bit behind for dps at this ranges now. However this fit would have only worked with a 5% pg imp or more likly to drop a MFS for a PDU or drop the LSE, costing you considerable amounts of EHP or DPS.

[Naga, Naga 100km]

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge L

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Invulnerability Field II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Edit: Without the 4. low slot, less tank, only the range bonus for torps/hybrids, even less speed and more fitting issues, I just can't see it working at all.
Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding
#23 - 2011-11-03 21:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Cellestia
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship


Umm, how?
It was made to give pilots the choice between a decent hybrid and missile boat. Going with just one completely shafts people who trained for the other half of the Caldari lineup.

Now it's just awful at both.



Caldari hasn't been about hybrids for how many years? Just remove the turret slots and hybrid bonuses and make caldari the missile monkeys they should be. Or just make specific ships hybrid and specific ones missiles, split bonuses are stupid. Jack of all trades, master of none.

And I liked the torp naga. Would have been fun as hell.
kyrv
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-11-03 21:34:41 UTC
Obscene damage's, can't wait..
Sylar Reuwich
Hek Trade and Industries
#25 - 2011-11-03 22:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylar Reuwich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=facys8m3i8k

This is horrible. The dronebay..why take it away? Though the new bonuses aren't bad it's what made the ship Gallente. Usually I think yeah, that's right, I get a dronebay for having to deal with the fairly impractical side effects of being a slow and short range ship but no. Not now :(
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#26 - 2011-11-03 23:12:08 UTC
Princess Cellestia wrote:


The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.

Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.


The Naga was worthless. It was vastly inferior to the Tornado and Talos close up with blasters or torps, because of its lack of mobility, the difficulty of application of torp DPS to BC hulls and the lack of a blaster damage bonus. It was vastly inferior to all of the others at long range, thanks to the nonexistence of sniping, the alpha of artillery and the raw DPS and tracking of Scorch.

Now it's even worse and the Tornado is basically unchanged. Heh. Straight
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#27 - 2011-11-03 23:53:56 UTC
So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?

Assumptions are the mother of all.....
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#28 - 2011-11-04 00:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?


It doesn't take rocket science to spot out particular flaws in the baseline design and CCP has a long standing track record of introducing ships to the server that are not very useful. A good example might be the talos that even if not so useful overall had a gimmick that might have been good enough to consider the hull as overall ok(still just a bit faster, more deadly brutix with less EHP) and the general interest in this hull dropped pretty much to zero once CCP removed it. The Naga didn't even start off with something like this, don't offer a niche where it got a clear advantage compared to the Oracle or Tornado and even got the biggest nerf of any of the hulls(the fitting nerfs on the Oracle and Tornado can be compensated with the fitting w/o much lose in performance) while it already was a considerable bit shorter on cpu/pg for a useful fitting than the rest.

Also I am pretty sure CCP did read and considered the input about the tier 3 BCs so far on the forums and will use this to improve the design(hopefully).
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-11-04 00:17:33 UTC
I swore i saw this coming and commented about it a few days ago and now its coming true
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=299320#post299320
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-11-04 00:42:56 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?

Assumptions are the mother of all.....


Hipster goggles?
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-11-04 01:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAegix
Naga? Split weapon bonus trolololo. Ranking: 2/10
Oracle? Crappy cap bonus which is already a role bonus. HAH. However, S C O R C H. 5/10
Talos? LOL NO WEB BONUS. LOL NO DRONEBAY. Expect 5% more DPS than the Tornado with 10% of the range. 4/10
Tornado? Hey look, it's Minmatar. MAKE IT THE GREATEST OF ALL THE SHIPS. MINMATAR IS WINMATAR. RABBLE RABBLE. 9/10

Yes, I'm mad. Sad
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
#32 - 2011-11-04 01:13:19 UTC
Poor Talos! Evil*grumbles*

The tank nerf doesn't suprise me at all, but dropping the web bonus is harsh.
Here is an idea for CCP: Drop the MWD bonus on the Thorax and give it the 90% webs...

oh well, one can wish...

Pain is short, and joy is eternal.
dream3874
Tears of Redemption
#33 - 2011-11-04 01:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: dream3874
Folks its still to early to say for SURE what the stats on these ships are. I hope to God thise is not true though. I was really looking forward to the Talos and Oracle. Instead of nerfing these why not just make the requirements to fly them longer.
Skarned
Inroads
#34 - 2011-11-04 02:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Skarned
Whats the purpose of these ships again? Do they fill a role in EVE pew pew combat or are they just a knee jerk reaction to combat the decline in EVE subscriptions?
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#35 - 2011-11-04 03:27:43 UTC
God damn you ******* post eating forum.

Ugh, the short of it........

Make them all gunboats, with huge damage bonuses and the tracking of sieged-dreads, or worse. 2000 dps or so. Real squishy, vulnerable to frigates and battleships with longrange guns.

They'd need help hitting subcaps, lots of help. It would encourage mixed fleets, unless it's arty maels.....

Meh, orignally it was a long post describing the awesomesauce that could be.
Chronasis
#36 - 2011-11-04 03:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Chronasis
Dark Pangolin wrote:
DrDan21 wrote:
Dark Pangolin wrote:
"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "

Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.

I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...


Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included

As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships.


Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg

Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)

If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus...



I can see all 8 hardpoints on both the Talos (2 forward on either side of the hull in the circular area's, 2 mid way back down hull before the wings, 2 round areas on outer edge upper part of each wing, and 1 in top rear), and the Tornado (the tornado pic from the contest even shows where the 8 turrets are located).

But the oracle for sure only has 4 in the renders. The ONLY way it could get but 4 turret slots and keep up DPS wise with the others is with a 100% damage increase per turret (makign 4 hit like 8), maybe even up to 105-110% per turret.

Also in the render for the Naga, it has 8 very visible turret hardpoints on each side. 4 upper, 4 lower.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2011-11-04 04:56:17 UTC
yay this is what the eve community has become over the years a **** ton of whiny little teatbabys that cry so much to ccp before something is even released that they nerf it everything these days is nerf nerf nerf because these incompetent wastes of flesh and bone are too fing stupid to adapt

WELL DONE
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-04 05:11:16 UTC
Chronasis wrote:
Dark Pangolin wrote:
DrDan21 wrote:
Dark Pangolin wrote:
"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "

Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.

I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...


Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included

As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships.


Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg

Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)

If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus...



I can see all 8 hardpoints on both the Talos (2 forward on either side of the hull in the circular area's, 2 mid way back down hull before the wings, 2 round areas on outer edge upper part of each wing, and 1 in top rear), and the Tornado (the tornado pic from the contest even shows where the 8 turrets are located).

But the oracle for sure only has 4 in the renders. The ONLY way it could get but 4 turret slots and keep up DPS wise with the others is with a 100% damage increase per turret (makign 4 hit like 8), maybe even up to 105-110% per turret.

Also in the render for the Naga, it has 8 very visible turret hardpoints on each side. 4 upper, 4 lower.


Who gives a ****? copy/pasta some more hardpoints on the bloody models.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#39 - 2011-11-04 14:06:42 UTC
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2816/3059/Caldari_Tier3_Battlecruiser.jpg

The Naga Clearly shows 8 Guns on the rendering so there goes all that theory crafting. I'm going to say it one more time...We'll see it when it hits Tranquility.

-DP

P.S. I actually like the look of the Naga.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#40 - 2011-11-04 14:15:55 UTC
Desudes wrote:
Chronasis wrote:
Dark Pangolin wrote:
DrDan21 wrote:
Dark Pangolin wrote:
"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "

Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.

I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...


Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included

As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships.


Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg

Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)

If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus...



I can see all 8 hardpoints on both the Talos (2 forward on either side of the hull in the circular area's, 2 mid way back down hull before the wings, 2 round areas on outer edge upper part of each wing, and 1 in top rear), and the Tornado (the tornado pic from the contest even shows where the 8 turrets are located).

But the oracle for sure only has 4 in the renders. The ONLY way it could get but 4 turret slots and keep up DPS wise with the others is with a 100% damage increase per turret (makign 4 hit like 8), maybe even up to 105-110% per turret.

Also in the render for the Naga, it has 8 very visible turret hardpoints on each side. 4 upper, 4 lower.


Who gives a ****? copy/pasta some more hardpoints on the bloody models.


PSS Ugly ships are terrible ships. Have you seen the hard points on the Ferox?!? How do you get 2 guns on that antenna under the bow?! Also the Harby... asymmetrical hard point under the nose on the left...wtf... :) I like me my symmetry/occasional asymmetry...but not on hard points :)

PSSS Look at the abadons engine fire when you get a chance...one of the flames is way longer than all the others...BOTHERS THE HELL OUT OF ME!