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New dev blog: Introducing New Nebulae into EVE

First post
Author
Vincent Jarjadian
Reeloaded
Reeloaded.
#161 - 2011-11-03 22:44:43 UTC
They do look nice...

2 questions...

1: How much will the new nebulas increase the memory footprint of EVE? As someone who used to dual client but can no longer do this with 1GB of RAM... hopefully CCP wont go overboard on the already large game memory footprint... Could also affect multiple clients on PCs with more ram...

2: How much space will these take up on the hard drive? Considering not everyone has 10k RPM drives or SSDs, could they increase lag by taking time to load off of the drive into memory?
Solo Player
#162 - 2011-11-03 22:56:53 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Illectroculus Defined wrote:
Valeo Galaem wrote:

Something that I noticed a long time ago: all stargates and stations have the same orientation - specifically they point "south". Will stargates be realigned (along the X-Y plane at least) to point towards their destination's celestial phenomena? Otherwise it will feel very odd knowing you are traveling north towards Caldari space but always being shot towards Amarr.
.

THis is one of my concerns, it's not as if it needs any new technology.

hell I could even compute the rotation matrices from the existing data dump.

It would be cool, absolutely, their constant alignment along a principal axis is a legacy issue. If we rotate them, we could possibly screw up some people's warp to zero bookmarks, which would cause rage, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, so it would require some investigation upfront.

Also, since the cube map is a projection on a sphere, identical throughout the nebula, the gates shouldn't rotate towards the actual target gates, rather coordinates on the sky. There is some hand-waving involved, unfortunately...


That's a bit of a shame, ttbt.
I was under the impression that it was alluded somewhere (e:on?) that you'd actually see the star you were about to warp to. I had assumed that you would actually superimpose nearby stars at their correct position onto your cube map - after all, what's a few hundred extra dots in a scenery of thousands?

And you really should go out of your way to screw up ppl's wtz bookmarks every once in a while. Or make them decay over time - there's just too many of them about, cluttering hangars and servers, and I bet they cause lag, too.
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#163 - 2011-11-03 23:02:13 UTC
Camios wrote:
The snapshots look gorgeous. I'm going to travel like mad with a ceptor just to see the background change. By the way, how heavy are the new backgrounds in MBs? I bet there are some real astronomy addicts that would be really interested in downloading 3GB of backgrounds, while someone else would like just to turn it off (I am in the former category).


The total size for 67 cubemaps is 201 megabytes (Each cubemap is 3 megabytes). The new cubemaps are the same size as the old ones. Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons. They are planned to be removed later at a date to be determined. The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.
Bratwurst0r
DARK ORCHESTRA
#164 - 2011-11-03 23:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bratwurst0r
I'm not a big fan of "region granularity" either, thats way too rough, as we have regions that overlap....(the normal highsec pilot won't even EVER notice any change as he rarely moves between regions).

I was under the impression that you would go "system granularity" by calculating the backdrop while jumping (well, not the nebula, just your position in a larger box) with an algorythm.

Well, if i understand correctly all this stuff is prerendered, and so 68 backdrops = large data dump, right? EDIT: well just read your post, 200MB is not that much, we got 4GB of data in Incarna alone. At least go constellation granularity please.
Illwill Bill
End of employment history
#165 - 2011-11-03 23:11:56 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.


Any chance for a low-res download of the entire client graphics pack?
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#166 - 2011-11-03 23:15:19 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Camios wrote:
The snapshots look gorgeous. I'm going to travel like mad with a ceptor just to see the background change. By the way, how heavy are the new backgrounds in MBs? I bet there are some real astronomy addicts that would be really interested in downloading 3GB of backgrounds, while someone else would like just to turn it off (I am in the former category).


The total size for 67 cubemaps is 201 megabytes (Each cubemap is 3 megabytes). The new cubemaps are the same size as the old ones. Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons. They are planned to be removed later at a date to be determined. The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.


I'm sure a lot of us would appreciate that option.

Also a question regarding how you guys want to make the lighting better, do you think this would help the moons blend more into the background? It's always kind of annoyed me how you have the dark side of the moon contrasting against the background... always felt kind out of place and makes the moon seem more two dimensional.

I guess though that's the sacrifice for having a beautiful, but fairly light background.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#167 - 2011-11-03 23:21:40 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Camios wrote:
The snapshots look gorgeous. I'm going to travel like mad with a ceptor just to see the background change. By the way, how heavy are the new backgrounds in MBs? I bet there are some real astronomy addicts that would be really interested in downloading 3GB of backgrounds, while someone else would like just to turn it off (I am in the former category).


The total size for 67 cubemaps is 201 megabytes (Each cubemap is 3 megabytes). The new cubemaps are the same size as the old ones. Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons. They are planned to be removed later at a date to be determined. The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.

When they went in initially, raw from the rendering farm, they were about 2GB in size, which caused a few issues in client size Big smile
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#168 - 2011-11-03 23:23:40 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Camios wrote:
The snapshots look gorgeous. I'm going to travel like mad with a ceptor just to see the background change. By the way, how heavy are the new backgrounds in MBs? I bet there are some real astronomy addicts that would be really interested in downloading 3GB of backgrounds, while someone else would like just to turn it off (I am in the former category).


The total size for 67 cubemaps is 201 megabytes (Each cubemap is 3 megabytes). The new cubemaps are the same size as the old ones. Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons. They are planned to be removed later at a date to be determined. The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.



Oh yes please! Big smileBig smileIdea
I for one would happily download so that the game looks even more awesome. As others have said they might be great for desktop wallpapers too.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......

Alastar Frost
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2011-11-03 23:27:30 UTC
I see the advantage of prerendered images, and therefore the need to limit the number of backdrops. But as said above, the region granularity is a bit too large to notice changes in environment often.

My suggestion would be:
Use the large prerendered cubemaps for region changes. They show the really big phenomenons even from far away.

But think of a way to add a second layer with smaller phonomena, maybe even rendered live on every system jump which show the closest stars and small nebulae between them. They can be much smaller and only need to cover a small percentage of the whole cube, but change with every jump. It would be really nice to see the star you are jumping to (relatively) aligned with the gate and much brighter than the rest of the stars. Or that you could move around a small nebula when moving inside a constellation.

Those things from the second layer would be small dots from far away, so they are not a concern after a region jump.

I could imagine that a second layer which is transparent in large areas and only has some noticable spots filled would not take too much ressources.

I also guess just adding bright stars for the other systems of the constellation with some simple geometry would make the nerds (like me) happy. Just some small things that change when jumping from system to system. I promise i will search for them Cool
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2011-11-03 23:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Camios
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:


[...] The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, [...]


Only 70 mb more, and they look soo better and are more varied (67 vs 30)? Great job I'd say.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:

so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare

CCP Atropos wrote:

When they went in initially, raw from the rendering farm, they were about 2GB in size, which caused a few issues in client size Big smile


I understand the complications, but I could even pay a reasonable amount of money for getting more detailed background. That is the kind of cosmetics you can sell to me.
Ashlynn Tanaka
Generation Bleu
#171 - 2011-11-04 00:25:24 UTC
What are the chances of getting those three images in the devblog in larger sizes?

Let's say 1920x1200 (or 1920x1080) or 1680x1050 Big smile
Razin
The Scope
#172 - 2011-11-04 00:31:04 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.

Would this be a large effort to do? What would be the video ram impact of running with these hi-rez maps? I'd like this option now and I'll buy the hardware if mine isn't good enough.
Dawn Harbinger
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#173 - 2011-11-04 00:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dawn Harbinger
Awesome work guys, I'm really looking forward to this Big smile

I agree that it would have been incredible to have nebula changes on a system or constellation level; I was imagining each jump enlarging or reducing the size of the "neighboring" nebula (the one for the adjoining region in the background), but like you've said it's all a balancing act. As it is though, giving each region its own nebula will do wonders for giving us a better "feel" for the different areas of space and adding some much needed geographical flavor.
Ashlynn Tanaka
Generation Bleu
#174 - 2011-11-04 00:39:16 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Camios wrote:
The snapshots look gorgeous. I'm going to travel like mad with a ceptor just to see the background change. By the way, how heavy are the new backgrounds in MBs? I bet there are some real astronomy addicts that would be really interested in downloading 3GB of backgrounds, while someone else would like just to turn it off (I am in the former category).


The total size for 67 cubemaps is 201 megabytes (Each cubemap is 3 megabytes). The new cubemaps are the same size as the old ones. Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons. They are planned to be removed later at a date to be determined. The old files occupy around 134 mb.

So you will be downloading 201 megs, which are then compressed, I can't tell you the exact compressed size at this time. The maps were authored at twice the resolution we are delivering them in, and they are compressed. Ofc, they look much better uncompressed and in full resolution, so we might offer those as an optional download at some point in the future, for the die hard astronomy addicts with space on their hard drives and video ram to spare.


I wouldn't mind higher resolution backgrounds as a separate download. I'm an astronomy nut and it's one of the many reasons I play EVE. Many places in EVE are rather beautiful to look at.

I highly doubt we'll get black holes, neutron stars, blue giants, binary star systems, or supernovas, but these new nebulae will suffice. Smile
Marlakh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#175 - 2011-11-04 00:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Marlakh
I've waited for this feature since it was announced at the last Fanfest. It looks absolutely fantastic in appearanc and execution, but I'll torture myself a bit more and wait for it to appear on Tranquility instead Evil

I'm just wondering if there's any plan to have the nebulae superimposed on the map screen instead? So we have an appreciation of the location and relative sizes of the nebulae? From an exploration point of view, it'd be interesting to go to one system and be able to say: "I'm in Catch, I looked back and there is the XXX nebula surrounding Domain, my home".

Will there be an official naming convention for these nebulae, as implied by the Dev Blog, or will we leave it to the community to "evolve" names for them?

Next in the space background department, I'm really hoping to see binary or multi-star systems, comets, black holes, supernovae, neutron stars and other exotics!

Please keep up the good work!

Farewell, Smoke Monster from Lost! I'll miss you!
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#176 - 2011-11-04 00:53:38 UTC
I like the new nebulas, but having their brightness based on the security status is immersion breaking and makes absolutely no sense. Why should the stars care about pirates, gatecamps and Concord-patrols?

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#177 - 2011-11-04 01:00:24 UTC
I'm liking the change but I'm not entirely sure I like the relationship between natural phenomenon and security status (and to a lesser extent racial colour). It seems a bit arbitrary and slightly counter-intuitive.

While the racial colour thing kind of makes sense (nations base their colour schemes on the local surroundings), I would have thought that the over-populated urban sprawl of high-sec would be more dark and grey, where the vast wilderness and freedom of nullsec would have more vibrant and bright colours. Think Los Angeles vs the Amazon Jungle, or New York vs Madagascar.

I think that might even be a psychological queue that would encourage more people to explore beyond the boundaries of highsec. Food for thought at the very least.

Having said that I really like that this will give a visual queue of the player's current location, and if you pay attention you can get an idea of relative locations between systems for a sort of veteran's instinct navigation system (for capital pilots anyway).
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2011-11-04 01:14:25 UTC
Been looking forward to this for ages. Looking good. Except ...

I'm also disappointed by the region granularity. Previous communications from CCP made it seem as if the changes would be at least through solar systems, if not slight ones between individual star systems.

It means that contrary to our present circumstances where the backdrop does change from system to system, giving some sense of travel, now we won't have much of a sense of a difference between systems at all except for the suns.

This is obviously a big gain in terms of background beauty and versimilitude, but perhaps a loss in sense of movement between system and system?
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#179 - 2011-11-04 01:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP t0rfifrans
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Been looking forward to this for ages. Looking good. Except ...

I'm also disappointed by the region granularity. Previous communications from CCP made it seem as if the changes would be at least through solar systems, if not slight ones between individual star systems.

It means that contrary to our present circumstances where the backdrop does change from system to system, giving some sense of travel, now we won't have much of a sense of a difference between systems at all except for the suns.

This is obviously a big gain in terms of background beauty and versimilitude, but perhaps a loss in sense of movement between system and system?

It actually changes between constellations, not systems, right now. But like stated in the blog, many constellations share the same nebula.

The concern for our choice of granularity has been noted, we won't make drastic changes to the system or the assets before the winter release, but this is obviously something many are concerned with and we'll examine what we can do.

However, I encourage you to check it out on Singularity ( or TQ once it ships ) before making final judgements!
Sarmatiko
#180 - 2011-11-04 01:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Note that the patch will not remove the old cubemaps from your hard drive, due to legacy issues and the fact that they are used in places such as ship icons.

So does this means that we will see something like this later? Roll