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NPC corp abuse

Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2013-05-16 10:36:39 UTC
Ok so why we have npc corps ?
For newbies that need to learn how to play eve.
I'm more than fine with this.

Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.

So my suggestion.
Create new NPC corporations , one for each race.
All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.

Now the most important part.
All this corps will be somewhat connected to race militia.
Character sitting in this npc corp will be attacked by enemy npc militia in their systems, but not players in enemy militia.

This way - all those 50mil SP chars sitting in npc corps will be limited to 'friendly' space, or will have to join or create their own corporations.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2013-05-16 11:23:27 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Ok so why we have npc corps ?
For newbies that need to learn how to play eve.
I'm more than fine with this.

Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.

So my suggestion.
Create new NPC corporations , one for each race.
All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.

Now the most important part.
All this corps will be connected to race militia.
Character sitting in this npc corp will be legal targets for the enemy militia



fixed it.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#3 - 2013-05-16 11:51:29 UTC
As it's being mentioned countless times, EVE is a sandbox and anyone can choose what he wants to do.

As it's also being mentioned countless times, almost every activity in EVE is PVP.

Why do you want to force me to pew-pew?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2013-05-16 11:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
hmskrecik wrote:
Why do you want to force me to pew-pew?



You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.


*or at least as much impunity as is provided by being in a noobcorp.


After reading it again, various other tweaks that can be applied:

1. all NPC corps that are not the noob-corp (e.g. Aliastra) are in the Militia.
2. all NPC corps that are not the Universities have a higher tax (to fund their militia stuff)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#5 - 2013-05-16 12:04:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
why??
I guess you want to pay some ISK and shoot them, they dont want it. So why exactly should you be the one on receiving end?
You can still suicide him.

If you want shooting anyone go to 0.0 or lowsec not hide in high sec, sitting in NPC corp forever is not abuse but intended use of NPC corps.
Onomerous
Negative-Impact
Sedition.
#6 - 2013-05-16 12:11:42 UTC
Wo0t for another thread to fix something which isn't broken!! Go Go fixers!!

Get over it. Some people don't want to play the way you do. Get over your desire for easy kills to boost your uber killboard as well.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#7 - 2013-05-16 12:30:29 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
why??
I guess you want to pay some ISK and shoot them, they dont want it. So why exactly should you be the one on receiving end?
You can still suicide him.

If you want shooting anyone go to 0.0 or lowsec not hide in high sec, sitting in NPC corp forever is not abuse but intended use of NPC corps.

Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct? So why do certain people get to play outside the normal rules, if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple. If I didn't like the possibility of being, killed from orbit by someone I couldn't return the favor to in the same game, I wouldn't play Dust 514. Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#8 - 2013-05-16 12:31:21 UTC
Anyone can play Eve the way they want - so long as it's the way this guy wants them to play.

/thread

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#9 - 2013-05-16 12:32:57 UTC
Velicitia wrote:

You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.

Yes, I am, and I even had my tiny piece of pew-pew action, but I still regard myself as carebear and I might as well be still in the noobcorp. If EVE is a sandbox, avoiding the fight should be valid choice. If you take away this option, you take away the sandbox.

And like Robert Caldera observed, the impunity is not absolute.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#10 - 2013-05-16 12:52:38 UTC
This topic gets brought up alot. Personally, I'm more for limiting basic abilities in NPC corps, but if players want to avoid war, they will find a way to avoid war. Including quitting.

The reason I feel very strongly about NPC corps is that, like it or not, running a good corporation is work. Player-made corporations largely get no respect unless they are Goon or Test, at which point, they are insulted and derived by half the playerbase for no real reason.

NPC corps, on the other hand, seem to be almost 'perfect' in what they offer that audience. It's hard for a player corp in hisec to compete with this. Why join a player corp with a 5% tax when you can be war-decced, awoxed, etc? For so many characters, there is simply no benefit in their hisec lifestyle of mission running and belt mining, industry and research, to warrant the move. They aren't running POS's, they've got more people to talk to in general chat then they can care for usually, and overall the experience of not being awox'd or war dec'd outweighs the lack of a corporate hangar, etc.

Player corporations in general suffer for this. It's essentially nigh-impossible to make a hisec, PvE corporation that is in any way better than the NPC corps.



I always propose a stiff rise in taxes to make it more obvious that the NPC player is, in fact, still paying for their security. This isn't to make their life worse. I have enough alts in NPC corps to be of that stance, too. But it is to transfer the sense of ownership, that security comes at a cost. This HAS to be conveyed better to new players.

As well, the concept of supporting your corporation, by upgrade corporate capabilities and options (even in hisec) should be considered. Adding in the ability of a corp to rent faction agents to provide better mission access to their corp mates? Or providing a public, managed stock market for investment to actually render a dividend and make corporate 'ownership' more valuable? Or how about providing more than POS (a buggy, costly, and altogether majorly useless system for a hisec occupant who can be patient a month for research) for corporation ownership, like deadspace rental?

Quite a few of these options can be found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=235901&find=unread

But again, my point comes down to teaching players that avoiding war and living under that all-protective umbrella of the NPC corp should cost you significant amounts of your gross ... money you could otherwise spend on emergent gameplay which funds mercenaries and dedicated pvp players to fight for you instead.

The cost should equal out.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-05-16 12:57:05 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Ok so why we have npc corps ?
For newbies that need to learn how to play eve.
I'm more than fine with this.

Still when i see 5yo alt flying vindicator, that never left this NPC corp - i think that something is wrong.

So my suggestion.
Create new NPC corporations , one for each race.
All characters older than 5 months will be moved to this new corporations.

Now the most important part.
All this corps will be somewhat connected to race militia.
Character sitting in this npc corp will be attacked by enemy npc militia in their systems, but not players in enemy militia.

This way - all those 50mil SP chars sitting in npc corps will be limited to 'friendly' space, or will have to join or create their own corporations.



Given the only real reason you want this is so that you can wardec and grief them.

Consider them sitting in the NPC corp them greifing you, and this post is your tears.

...

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-05-16 13:02:32 UTC
Show me on the doll where the bad NPC touched you.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#13 - 2013-05-16 13:30:00 UTC
I'm honestly a little perplexed... what are the cons to just making your own corporation, other than the minimal cost of forming and the need to dissolve and reform if you get wardecced? Seems to me that those are outweighed by the NPC corp tax. Is the dissolving/reforming bit not that easy?
1st-Garrentious WispBender
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-05-16 13:33:54 UTC
Other people should play the game the way I want them too. True story.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#15 - 2013-05-16 13:39:13 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
I'm honestly a little perplexed... what are the cons to just making your own corporation, other than the minimal cost of forming and the need to dissolve and reform if you get wardecced? Seems to me that those are outweighed by the NPC corp tax. Is the dissolving/reforming bit not that easy?


Cons of player made corporations include:
- The ability for corp mates to attack you.
- The ability to be war-dec'd.
- The lack of a 500+ public chat channel to communicate to others in.

As I've found, most players in NPC corporations play mainly solo, mining and mission running in hisec. They don't like watching out for enemies all the time and feeling betrayed, and they absolutely hate the idea of being at the end of someone else's fun (it's not the war dec or pvp, generally, but the trash talking and insults that go with most hisec war-dec corps).

The tax is small change compared to the benefit. As well, even though a player is solo, doesn't mean they don't like having someone to talk to now and again. So while bringing other players into their corporation of alt evokes the risk of awox'ing (as well as the threat of war-dec's, to be honest), sitting in NPC corp chat does not.

If a NPC player wants to have a POS, they create a corp for a month, install one, and move back to NPC corp. Simple and easy.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Velicitia
XS Tech
#16 - 2013-05-16 13:40:08 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

You're already in a player-run corporation. The OP's idea is to essentially make it so you can't permanently hide in a noobcorp and mission/mine/etc with impunity*.

Yes, I am, and I even had my tiny piece of pew-pew action, but I still regard myself as carebear and I might as well be still in the noobcorp. If EVE is a sandbox, avoiding the fight should be valid choice. If you take away this option, you take away the sandbox.

And like Robert Caldera observed, the impunity is not absolute.



hence the asterisk, and the caveat "well, as much impunity as is provided by being in a noobcorp". Pretty much though, people sitting that long in the noobcorps don't add anything to EVE ... and in general seem to be the ones who whine loudest about "nerfing hisec". Essentially, these are the people who want to play eve in singleplayer mode...

I have nearly 21 million SP in industry on this character (1 or 2 skills need finishing to L5). I prefer the drone of lasers to the earth-shattering kaboom of artillery. Even though I now fly with a "PVP Corp", I still focus my efforts in the support roles (logi/hero tackle/etc). The thing is, even though I myself may still be a "carebear", I can fully recognize the need for all walks in New Eden -- or at least those that want to play EVE in "Multiplayer" mode.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#17 - 2013-05-16 13:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Drake Doe wrote:
Says who? Where has CCP specifically stated that Npc corps are for those special snowflakes that can't handle any pvp, this game is supposed to be a sand box correct?

says CCP by acting. There arent any limits how long you can stay in NPC corporation, nor does CCP state any limit explicitely.

Drake Doe wrote:
if they can't play within the rules of the game that means it isn't for them plain and simple.

they DO play by rules absolutely fine, rules say if you're in NPC corp you cant be wardecced, so they enjoy this rule and never leave NPC corp.

Drake Doe wrote:
Why should we have to suicide to even touch them when mechanics exist already to fight each other?

the mechanics to fight you exist already in 0.0, why do I need to wardec you and pay money first prior shooting in high sec? what a bullsh*t!""! And on top, you can even evade my war by leaving corp. CCPPPPPPP FIX THISSSSSSSSSSSS

Ruze wrote:
This topic gets brought up alot. Personally, I'm more for limiting basic abilities in NPC corps, but if players want to avoid war, they will find a way to avoid war. Including quitting.

this

TheSkeptic wrote:

Given the only real reason you want this is so that you can wardec and grief them.

Consider them sitting in the NPC corp them greifing you, and this post is your tears.


haha true
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#18 - 2013-05-16 13:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Ruze wrote:
Cons of player made corporations include:
- The ability for corp mates to attack you.
- The ability to be war-dec'd.
- The lack of a 500+ public chat channel to communicate to others in.

Those are the disadvantages of joining someone else's corp, but what about just making your own 1-man corp? Is there more to shedding wardecs than just dissolving the corp and making a new one (at far less cost than the wardec)?

Edit: Oh, do you get a big chat channel in NPC corps? I guess that's what you were referring to. I guess that's valid, though there's always local for socializing.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#19 - 2013-05-16 13:50:20 UTC
While you´re at it:

Leaving a player-corp while at war should either leave the leaver be viable target as long as the war goes or shouldn´t be possible.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#20 - 2013-05-16 13:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Zor'katar wrote:
Those are the disadvantages of joining someone else's corp, but what about just making your own 1-man corp? Is there more to shedding wardecs than just dissolving the corp and making a new one (at far less cost than the wardec)?

but WHY should they do this? For dissolving it and creating a new one when wardecced by some fool?? Thats work, unneccessary work they simply dont do because they dont have any good from it.

StoneCold wrote:
While you´re at it:

Leaving a player-corp while at war should either leave the leaver be viable target as long as the war goes or shouldn´t be possible.

you wardec a corporation not a single individual. So invalid request - once player isnt part of corporation, there is no reason he should remain a wardec target.



I love it when high sec squatters start whining about lack of pvp.
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