Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The new Apoc got a around 1 minute less runtime(4.14 vs 5.20) with faction ammo, and using scorch or conflag will put you around the 3 minute ballpark(possible with the Abaddon, thx to the better armor buffer that allows delayed reps, hard to to with the Apoc). The difference with the new laser cap reduction is actually very negation able after laser cap rigs. Keep in mind that is max skilled and with T2 rigs, cap use with T1 rigs and less skills will force you to a 2. cap mod.

I don't think putting cap boosters on pve hulls is a good idea and given how terrible most fits that use one are if I see them on the forums, I rather keep it this way.

Cap live is a little bit over 4 minutes, but with a med repper instead of a large on(doesn't really matter since you buffer more).

Falloff is not really a big problem as long as you keep under 50% falloff you will lose only a very little part of your DPS. The massive drop happens between 50% and 100% and damage beyond 100% well, you don't do anything productive at all.

I for myself prefer the higher dps at sub 50km ranges and there are enough missions where most rats are at this ranges and the Abaddon doesn't do particular bad dps with scorch if you can't get under 50km. If you prefer the extra range fair enough.



The Abaddon isn't a particular bad ship vs angels, since they all move towards you, the high damage with conflag is quite handy and EM resistance of non BS\elite cruisers is not a big issue. Maelstrom will be a bit quicker, but compared to hybrids, it is nearly as fast as a gallente rail/sentry setup against targets with the 2. best resist profile against it(guristas are still far worse since they keep at high range and are very resistant to scorch).

Well I would say:

- Apoc: Slightly reduced effectiveness for L4, you will lose around 5% dps or range. It is something to consider but not a big deal breaker. On the flip side maximum tracking is quite a bit better making the hull more powerful for Incursion, what probably makes quite a lot amarr pve pilots happy.

- Abaddon: Lasers need a bit less cap, you will need to rep a bit more by the lower resistance. I don't think it is any particular big change overall.

- Navy Geddon: More armor, fitting and drones(2 sentry sets plus spares are very nice), less cap need. Overall clear buff.

- Navy Apoc: Stays mostly as before as a Apoc with a extra low, extra armor.

- Paladin: Less cap need, can finally fit a large repper, AB and tachs after a T2 damage rig. Overall clear buff.

- Nightmare: Less cap need, and given that this is the main issue in a tach fitting, it is not a bad buff.

The new geddon isn't really a good pve ship(similar as the scorp), it got a ew focus and that is probably a good thing if it costs as much as a Abaddon the old geddon couldn't offer this much(plus required excellent sentry skills). Navy geddon stays 8/4/8, so no nerf here, and it will be a very impressive ship for PVE.

As for the apoc, well yes the bonus change reduce the effectiveness a bit for L4, but it isn't the only BS where this happens(Mega loses sentrys and needs more cap and CNR lost her launcher advantage over the Golem and Raven). I'm actually more worried what happens with the Apoc and Lasers once CCP realizes how good it was without the tracking bonus and how problematic it will be with it in PVP doctrines.

The reason I included the faction and T2 hulls was that you can see, that the best hulls actually get considerably buffed by Odyssey and since people won't fly a T1 BS for pve forever it is something worth looking into.

Well I take a the laser rof bonus with a kiss over a hybrid damage bonus. If you ever end up dual boxing Kronos and Paladin, you might get my drift.



It will lose 1.3 effective launchers compared to now and will end up as the lazy man's golem, basically it does more dps if you are to lazy to paint targets properly. It lost the ability to do more damage with CM than the Golem, and this was pretty much her niche. If you properly paint with a Golem, there is little reason to fly a CNR for L4 any more(sensor strength and speed are better, but still).



The problem is that people don't realize that CCP want to see the mega with rails and in fleet fights. It got a bit more turret DPS(at expense of alpha and cap) and loses the big drone bay(since it is not something particular needed in most fights) and a improvement in tank with the 8. low slot. In the long run it is something that will be more useful for eve overall and the Kronos and Navy Mega are still perfect options for PVE.



I played a pure amarr specced char from day one and this char could fly a abaddon effective after like 3 months. I sold my apoc after a couple of timed test runs compared to the Abaddon. This was at a time where everybody considered the Abaddon completely useless for L4 by her capacitor issues. However this was back in the days before the laser buff and the optimal bonus on the Apoc(it had capacitor amount and cap use bonus back then). To be fair I already had a very good understanding about eve mechanics as I created the char, but I never flown a amarr hull before and simply figured most out and looked a bit at the forums for fitting suggestions. I'm pretty sure a new player, if he puts some effort into it can do the same.

While starting out with amarr is harder than caldari or minmatar, it is probably on par with gallente(that also require a lot of sp in different fields to make the domi or mega work properly) it isn't a big thing in the long run(there will be a point where you will have zero problems with amarr hulls, for me that was around 6M SP on my amarr char) and I think that it is more a problem with the current mindset. Rushing for bigger hulls instead of having fun and learning to like the smaller hulls before you spec into T2 ships was always problematic, little has changed between 2006 and 2013 in this regards.

just what new players do you know that run missions for isk can afford those kinds of ships?!?!

You do realize, I didn't said about T1, or what not. (NM and Rattlesnake are, technically, T1, if you didn't know.)
I just recounted the set of ships I see frequently in the mission hubs I'm using for LP stockpiling.
I should probably add Dominix Navy Issue to the list, but it was flying by only one pilot. Although, it was seemingly omnipresent.

Seems this thread isn't constructive. Everyone points the same concerns and issues again and again and again.

Amarrians really need more cap. Their new battleships are incredibly strange compared to other races.

Passive tank nerf isn't too pleasant, I'd really love it back at 5%. Passive bonused ships are already weaker than active bonused in duels (in most cases).

Armageddon.. Many people don't like their favorite ship ruined and it isn't a completely useless hull, as Prophecy have been. You should have made 4th battleship for trials, not this crap.

To CCP's art department:

The new Apoc, Apoc Navy Issue and Paladin skins look absolutely fantastic. I especially love that it has less 'windows' and masts, and looks more like a battleship ready to go into war.

As a vain player who's always chosen the geddon over the apoc based on looks alone, I now feel as if my options have been expanded. Thanks!

Looks like this nerfed Abaddon is now completely outperformed by the new Navy Geddon as a brawler. The price difference is not that huge to justify - 300 mil vs 200 mil.
It should gain more grid to be able to fit Tachions, I'd suggest. That way it becomes a versatile combat BS, optimal at med range.