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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

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Naomi Anthar
#361 - 2013-05-03 19:07:35 UTC
I usually make long posts. This one will be short. It's about slicer - piece of **** - not faction frig. ( performance wise)

CONS :
1. Utility high ... i get mad even when i think about it
2. CPU - 115 atm - anyone tell me single frig with less cpu please ? ATM
3. CPU - 125 after Odyssey - trivia how many frigs will have less after odyssey and how much less? Yes DO CHECK.
4. Actually NOT THAT FAST - yup you hear it - this so called kiter is only 20 m/s faster baseline than arch-brick puni.
5. No fitting options - other navy frigs can brawl or kite WELL.
6. It cannot actually kite well - slap one TD even on unbonused hull and slicer is done.
7. Shoot lasers.

PROS:
1. Looks good.
2. Shoot lasers.

So i will probably fly it anyway. Because it looks awesome and style > rest.
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#362 - 2013-05-04 09:35:32 UTC
I have once flown a lot of slicers in july/august/september 2012 and the ship was already not really good at that time.
Let us face it: The slicer is almost dead. People only fly because it looks so cool.
Actually with good skills you can fit an executioner with same kiting abilities but less dmg/s and less tank but with a td and it will be a better kiter than the slicer.
CCP could delete the 3rd high and no one would even notice it. Completely useless.
With these buffs of firetail and comet there is no way even the slighty buffed slicer can survive that.
CCP is screwing it up completely.
But hey we are going for gallente online. Algos: op. Vexor: op. Tristan: slightly op.
Slicer: rofl. Crapship par excellence.
Slicer cannot engage tristan because it maybe hard tankes and rail fitted. Slicer will be toast.
Slicer cannot engage condor because if condor has a td the slicer is toast. Same with every other firgate that can have a 3td mid.
And do not tell me the slicer is a viable brawler. It is c...
Only the people are completely surprised and forget to get under its guns. That is the only advantage actually.
Every ab, scram, web slasher can get under the lasers of the brawler slicer and have a good laugh.
Really no udea what the hell CCP is doing here.
Without 3rd med the slicer is going to be a superjoke. Although I consider it even now on same level with the firetail.
Bye bye slicer.
CCP HATES AMARR. Point
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#363 - 2013-05-04 10:51:53 UTC
They could buff it by making those snazzy headlights a soft weapon .. whenever front of ship is pointed towards an enemy (+/- 20 degrees) the enemy's screen turns a pale white making any control/vision impossible without using hotkeys!

Make the others into roadkill! Smile
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2013-05-08 03:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
I have to agree with the doctor, Hookbill and Comet will still be great, Firetail gets a needed buff but it will just end up switching places with the slicer, which already has a tough time vs T1 frigs.

Edit this post is totally not because I derped a slicer in a fight against naomi...
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#365 - 2013-05-11 23:48:11 UTC
The new Firetail will eb OP in a decent pilots hands.

Hookbill and Comet are nice allrounders and will fill the gap between Inty and AF nicely.

Slicer is more of an 'unique' ship for the discerning pilot Lol

Most of the arguments for the slicer to get a 3rd mid/lose the high are crap!

TD's pretty much screw over any turret based kiter. Having a 3rd mid won't stop this. Guess what that TD condor mucks up the comet and firetail just as bad (comet has some defence with drones etc but most condors can just outrun then).

No third mid makes an aweful brawler. Bollocks. Punisher is know for brawling as is dual rep incursus/vengeance. All of these don' t have a web for various reasons yet they are stiull good at their jobs.

Seriously you lot are just thinking of the mythical fair 1v1 fights that rarely ever happen. 99% of all fights are over before they start because of target selection and preparation of the participants.

Not every ship you kite is a dual TD'ing condor. In fact most ships won't even have a TD as it gimps thier fit to the majority of combat they are likely to encounter. And if you do happen to go after the guy with TD well HTFU and get over it and go get another ship or run away.

Slicer can put out way more DPS at point range than any of the T1 Amarr frigs. If flown right it can tank more and put out more dps then any other T1 Amarr frig in a brawl (do not underestimate the optimal bonus for lasers) sounds like it does exactly what a navy frig is supposted to do to me.
When I was in Amarr militia loads of guys were using them a lot and getting good kills both solo and gang.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#366 - 2013-05-12 06:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Taoist Dragon wrote:

TD's pretty much screw over any turret based kiter. Having a 3rd mid won't stop this. Guess what that TD condor mucks up the comet and firetail just as bad (comet has some defence with drones etc but most condors can just outrun then).


Rail comet has a 30km + max range

It does not get dicked over nearly as much by TD's as the slicer



But it does get dicked over because unbonused TD's are OP as ****.

Also punisher, dual rep incursus and slicer are all ****** brawlers.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#367 - 2013-05-12 07:23:46 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:

TD's pretty much screw over any turret based kiter. Having a 3rd mid won't stop this. Guess what that TD condor mucks up the comet and firetail just as bad (comet has some defence with drones etc but most condors can just outrun then).


Rail comet has a 30km + max range

It does not get dicked over nearly as much by TD's as the slicer



But it does get dicked over because unbonused TD's are OP as ****.

Also punisher, dual rep incursus and slicer are all ****** brawlers.


In a 1v1 I agree completely and a smart pilot will just leave if they can't kill them quickly. but in small gang fleet they can be quite nasty. This I quite like as it gives them 'flavour' P

And yeah TD's are a PITA and probably a bit OP on un bonussed hulls.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#368 - 2013-05-13 02:35:12 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:

TD's pretty much screw over any turret based kiter. Having a 3rd mid won't stop this. Guess what that TD condor mucks up the comet and firetail just as bad (comet has some defence with drones etc but most condors can just outrun then).


Rail comet has a 30km + max range

It does not get dicked over nearly as much by TD's as the slicer



But it does get dicked over because unbonused TD's are OP as ****.

Also punisher, dual rep incursus and slicer are all ****** brawlers.


In a 1v1 I agree completely and a smart pilot will just leave if they can't kill them quickly. but in small gang fleet they can be quite nasty. This I quite like as it gives them 'flavour' P

And yeah TD's are a PITA and probably a bit OP on un bonussed hulls.



One unbonused td brings the range of a comet with spike from 32 to 17

A bit too much imo :P

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#369 - 2013-05-14 15:11:06 UTC
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#370 - 2013-05-14 15:15:30 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


mm.. i still find it odd that all the navy classes get an extra slot but these don't apparently they would have to nerf them to allow for an extra slot or they would be too OP im not too convinced by that myself considering AF's have 12 slots and lots of bonuses.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#371 - 2013-05-14 15:41:54 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


mm.. i still find it odd that all the navy classes get an extra slot but these don't apparently they would have to nerf them to allow for an extra slot or they would be too OP im not too convinced by that myself considering AF's have 12 slots and lots of bonuses.


Well. Actually the slicer has one slot less. NO ONE uses the utility high. NO ONE.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2013-05-14 15:45:27 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


mm.. i still find it odd that all the navy classes get an extra slot but these don't apparently they would have to nerf them to allow for an extra slot or they would be too OP im not too convinced by that myself considering AF's have 12 slots and lots of bonuses.


Well. Actually the slicer has one slot less. NO ONE uses the utility high. NO ONE.



Utility high on a RANGE focused ship is indeed not extremely helpful. That one could be very well moved. Or add antoher turret and reduce a bit the damage bonus to not get overpowered

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#373 - 2013-05-14 15:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


mm.. i still find it odd that all the navy classes get an extra slot but these don't apparently they would have to nerf them to allow for an extra slot or they would be too OP im not too convinced by that myself considering AF's have 12 slots and lots of bonuses.


Well. Actually the slicer has one slot less. NO ONE uses the utility high. NO ONE.



Utility high on a RANGE focused ship is indeed not extremely helpful. That one could be very well moved. Or add antoher turret and reduce a bit the damage bonus to not get overpowered


Overpowered? Joke?
Even with 3rd tutrret and 220dps the kiter slicer would loose vs the firetail I have posted before^^
Firetail will be able to scramweb, 1td ,170 dps at 8.5k ehp tank. Not to mention a rail comet^^
CCP actually kills the slicer completely.

edit: and don´t tell me 3rd turret would make it a better brawler^^.
2 Meds---->No range control--->orbited at 500m----> laser don´t hit anything. Plus possible td with tracking disruption---> SLICER VERY DEAD.
Yes I know that some pilots fly the brawler slicer very good atm. But ONLY because no one awaits it. No one. Everyone thinks: Okay he is scrammed= he is dead. It is the surprise effect and not the ship.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#374 - 2013-05-14 17:38:41 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


Probably best to take it to Test Server feedback at this point:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233577&find=unread

I agree with you though, Slicer needs a high moved to a mid or low, and the Executioner's speed or at least something closer to it.

Most reasonable people seem to agree. Always some fellow around with some odd grudge to pursue.

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#375 - 2013-05-14 17:55:32 UTC
Zelarrs Elkoth wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Super. Most people agree that the slicer needs more love but it seems CCP forgot this thread a long time ago.


Probably best to take it to Test Server feedback at this point:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233577&find=unread

I agree with you though, Slicer needs a high moved to a mid or low, and the Executioner's speed or at least something closer to it.

Most reasonable people seem to agree. Always some fellow around with some odd grudge to pursue.


Moved to a low would make it almost like a daredevil but for kiting and with no tank and less damage. So no solution. LOL.
A mid would allow a td. But a td won´t help a slicer vs scramweb, ab, td, 8.5k ehp, 170dps firetail.
BUT: The 3rd med would allow range control for web so that slicer could be a viable brawler.
CCP can say what they want. Without 3rd med the slicer is completely f...

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2013-05-16 03:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Naomi Anthar wrote:
I usually make long posts. This one will be short. It's about slicer - piece of **** - not faction frig. ( performance wise)

CONS :
1. Utility high ... i get mad even when i think about it
2. CPU - 115 atm - anyone tell me single frig with less cpu please ? ATM
3. CPU - 125 after Odyssey - trivia how many frigs will have less after odyssey and how much less? Yes DO CHECK.
4. Actually NOT THAT FAST - yup you hear it - this so called kiter is only 20 m/s faster baseline than arch-brick puni.
5. No fitting options - other navy frigs can brawl or kite WELL.
6. It cannot actually kite well - slap one TD even on unbonused hull and slicer is done.
7. Shoot lasers.

PROS:
1. Looks good.
2. Shoot lasers.

So i will probably fly it anyway. Because it looks awesome and style > rest.

this

Move that useless slicer utility slot to a med or low please, CCP, nobody knows what you were thinking when you gave it a utility high
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#377 - 2013-05-16 05:27:44 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
The new Firetail will eb OP in a decent pilots hands.

Hookbill and Comet are nice allrounders and will fill the gap between Inty and AF nicely.

Slicer is more of an 'unique' ship for the discerning pilot Lol

Most of the arguments for the slicer to get a 3rd mid/lose the high are crap!

TD's pretty much screw over any turret based kiter. Having a 3rd mid won't stop this. Guess what that TD condor mucks up the comet and firetail just as bad (comet has some defence with drones etc but most condors can just outrun then).

No third mid makes an aweful brawler. Bollocks. Punisher is know for brawling as is dual rep incursus/vengeance. All of these don' t have a web for various reasons yet they are stiull good at their jobs.

Seriously you lot are just thinking of the mythical fair 1v1 fights that rarely ever happen. 99% of all fights are over before they start because of target selection and preparation of the participants.

Not every ship you kite is a dual TD'ing condor. In fact most ships won't even have a TD as it gimps thier fit to the majority of combat they are likely to encounter. And if you do happen to go after the guy with TD well HTFU and get over it and go get another ship or run away.

Slicer can put out way more DPS at point range than any of the T1 Amarr frigs. If flown right it can tank more and put out more dps then any other T1 Amarr frig in a brawl (do not underestimate the optimal bonus for lasers) sounds like it does exactly what a navy frig is supposted to do to me.
When I was in Amarr militia loads of guys were using them a lot and getting good kills both solo and gang.



Sir, I'm afraid I'm going to have to confiscate your slicer license.

The punisher is complete ****.

The slicer is a one-trick pony. You say it brawls well and then compare it to a rocket boat and another terrible brawler(dual rep incursus is **** because who cares about tank if you can't apply damage because of the lack of a web)

FYI a coercer has a 50% tracking bonus. It is possible to get under its guns with just an afterburner and a web. Of course thsts not possible if the coercer fits a web(better than a 120% tracking bonus within its range)

Laser frigates without webs don't hit for **** inside web range. The only one that can is the crusader and that's because of its natural speed and tracking.
Godhevel I
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#378 - 2013-05-18 04:35:33 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
When I start reading these threads, I get so excited my brain is all "WHY CAN'T I READ THIS INFORMATION FASTER???"



I have the same problem sometimes, there is so much information in regards to Odyssey, I wish I could retain all of it.

Goodjob on Hookbill, it looks a lot nicer now.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#379 - 2013-05-19 16:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
BUMP.

Still can´t believe CCP is really killing the slicer. The ship will be dead like hell.
Only for comparison again:
- comet: 150mm rails, 163dps, 10.4k ehp, ab scram web possible.
- firetail: 148 dps, tracking disruptor, 8.7k ehp, scramweb possible.
- slicer: erm... ??? Maybe 172 dps at 10.5k ehp, ab scram possible but ONLY scram. NO WEB. IDIOTIC!!!! COMPLETELY IDIOTIC.
Especially because lasers don´t hit anything if you are orbited at 500m^^. No clue how a brawler with such a bad damage at close range (500m) can survive without web^^. Additionally if the firetail has td with trackdis on the slicer and slicer is orbited at 500m^^. Kiter slicer? HAHAHA. Firetail has td and comet rails. Forget it.

THX CCP for actually killing the slicer.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#380 - 2013-05-20 17:29:47 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Still can´t believe CCP is really killing the slicer. The ship will be dead like hell.
Only for comparison again:
- comet: 150mm rails, 163dps, 10.4k ehp, ab scram web possible.
- firetail: 148 dps, tracking disruptor, 8.7k ehp, scramweb possible.
- slicer: erm... ??? Maybe 172 dps at 10.5k ehp, ab scram possible but ONLY scram. NO WEB. IDIOTIC!!!! COMPLETELY IDIOTIC.
Especially because lasers don´t hit anything if you are orbited at 500m^^. No clue how a brawler with such a bad damage at close range (500m) can survive without web^^. Additionally if the firetail has td with trackdis on the slicer and slicer is orbited at 500m^^. Kiter slicer? HAHAHA. Firetail has td and comet rails. Forget it.

THX CCP for actually killing the slicer.

Whatever do you mean, it will still be awesome against 2-3 fits and newbs Smile

At least the signature is not the worst of the bunch, that is something .. the lack of the 3rd mid forces it into kiting (brawling is possible with hefty sacrifices, but suicide now that everyone caught onto the broken performance of TDs) yet for some reason it has the lowest base speed and mediocre agility/mass when it should be to frigs what the lame-ass Nomen will be to cruisers (ie. bring a Rapier/Huginn or drown in tears).

1. Swap the physical attributes (speed/agility/mass) with the Comet .. there is no reason whatsoever for a highly versatile drone/hybrid boat to be that maneuverable compared to a one trick pony that doesn't even close to the same amount of base tank (hull increase alone equals almost 450 EHP after suitcase).
2. Move utility to middle rack .. was good to have for probes before ship scanner supplanted that with ludicrous range
Nos is pretty much useless when a single relay will yield 2/3rd of the cap with no range requisite and regardless of comparative cap. Neut is useless, bordering on suicidal, as you need every joule for yourself and chances are the enemy is either injected or packing a neut of his own ... either is only applicable if one sniffs the crazy glue and goes brawl with 2 mids in the first place.