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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-05-13 17:26:49 UTC
so about navy apoc.besides the fact that you guys ruined amarr battleship,you guys are picking now on factiones ones too?

so besides the fact that you guys are removing the capacitor bonus on navy apoc hull,of wich amarr lazors ships desperate need it,because simply lasers are consuming so much cap and then again you guys arent really doing anything about it,you also nerf the capacitor of the ship too.

now,i`m not sure if that i see at stats there is a mistake,but you guys might wanna reconsider
IrJosy
Club 1621
#62 - 2013-05-13 17:27:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The idea with the Tempest is that it fits really well into a lot of armor based compositions, acting more or less like an armor Maelstrom. It still has higher alpha than the Typhoon, with a lot more hp and similar utility. It goes a lot faster than the other combat battleships and has much smaller sig, so it definitely isn't eclipsed completely.

I can understand why some of you might want something with a bit more pop and I promise to talk with Fozzie and the rest of the department to make sure we're happy with this form before Odyssey goes out.



Ok ok, Just try to remember that navy ships are used by peopel trying to get an edge therefore they must have somethign goign for them. WHen you undock on a fleet tempest you wil have a plan ( Fleet doctrines in 0.0 are not included in taht, 0.0 combat became so stupid and mindless that I do not even dare to brign it up in this discussion).


More alpha then typhoon is not a reason to use it. If you want alpha you will go maelstrom, if you want mobility you go typhoon. Being A little bit bad at EVERYTHING is not a role. No one will select a combat ship based on that!


It must be GOOD at something. That is IMPORTANT! 2 damage bonus ship, it shows its supposed to be a gangy ship. Bring its turrets to 7 and lower drone bay a bit.. Or keep turrets and increase drone bay. Give a reason for anyoen select a tempst over some other ship in some realistic scenario.


It is good at something. Best armor alpha ship. Stop trying to meta game against goons.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-05-13 17:28:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:


N-Raven - good god that thing will be a beast


Remember that it's losing the damage bonus: it now has 8 effective launchers, the same as the standard Raven.


true but it gets a tracking and range bonus, as some one said its like an afordable actualy pvp orintated Golem
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#64 - 2013-05-13 17:28:51 UTC
IrJosy wrote:
I don't use my navy domi with guns can you please change it to be like the regular domi with the drone optimal/tracking bonus?


i too was hoping for this... but the flame was so high when they removed the regular domis turret bonus that alas we are stuck with a bonus we dont use.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#65 - 2013-05-13 17:29:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)
Wow! That was incredible to see you lift the curtain back some, Rise! Thank you so much!!

To those guys complaining about the lack of an 8-gun Gallente BS: I like the "idea" of 8 guns, but as long as its doing the same or better dps as its competitors, then just think 1) less ammo used and 2) less cap being taken up by additional turrets. Those are surely tradeoffs I'd make for not getting a special BS with 8 turrets.

I am a bit sad to see that the Mega is more-or-less the same Mega as the tech 1 BS, since I felt that ship was doing very well at that role with those bonuses. I'd much rather have seen a Navy Mega with a falloff bonus (or hell, even the T1 version instead) for better damage application on approach. Combined with the faster speed, the NMega could apply its dps in a much wider engagement envelope. Hell, maybe even 8 turrets with a tracking and falloff bonus would be cool (with 125 mb/s to make up some loss).

The only other ship I'd say needs some attention is the Tempest. I very much agree with the other posters that having a "gunboat"-flavored BS with dual damage bonuses to said guns feels somewhat lackluster when other BSs are performing better. For proj, too, there's not the same cap-use incentive to remove turrets as there is in laser- and hybrid-platforms. Can't the NTempest get 7 turrets?

Otherwise, really happy with the changes posted, and VERY nice to see the old Geddon again! :)

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#66 - 2013-05-13 17:30:06 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
why dont the minmatar get something to murder small stuff ?


A 125mbit drone bay and two utility highs (not to mention a ton of speed) isn't enough to murder small stuff? Blink


oh cool you got your csm tag... any news on who will be the chairman?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-05-13 17:30:17 UTC
also
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile Velocity per level of skill this is the current bonuses for raven navy.

you people can observ they are being changed to

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity


Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-05-13 17:30:40 UTC
@CCP Rise

+1 on the attack navy battleship changes
+1 on the Scorpion Navy Issue changes

undecided on the rest of combat bs changes.
Boni on Geddon should be changed to show combat role (remove cap boni add resist), also u gave more basic tank.
Dominix i cant say whats wrong but the boni and numbers feel wrong to make it better compared to the t1 version.
Tempest looks more like an attack Battleship.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#69 - 2013-05-13 17:31:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Turelus wrote:
CNR is king of PVE again? Big smile


Pretty much. The Fleet Typhoon has more EFT DPS, but the Navy Raven will apply it rather more effectively.


thankfully i have my phoon navy issue with 800's and nuets so i am cool with more dps.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-05-13 17:31:45 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
GALLENTE

MEGATHRON NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Thron will be Gallente’s ‘attack’ battleship, and therefore will adjust in many of the same ways that the tech 1 Megathron did, including the switch from damage bonus to rate of fire.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+10% Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 8L; 7 turrets, 1 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 16275 PWG, 630 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9000(-316) / 9500(-461) / 10500(-750)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 6000 (+375) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+10) / .105 (-.005) / 98400000(-6800000) / 15.01s(-1.84s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 25 Magnetometric Sensor Strength (-1.25)
Signature radius: 385(-15)


i bolded the part that needs to be fixed... tracking bonus for the tech I version is ok... but gal need a fleet ship and a mega navy issue can be that fleet ship... and the only way to make it so it to give it a fall off bonus... that will bring large neutrons with null into fleet bs range...

otherwise you are just making a pretty station game ship...


Nah that would make a nice kronos bonus maybe marauders could become a HAC version of battleships... make them smaller and more mobile with MWD bonus and projection bonuses we could have an assault line from frigs to battleships.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Aimee Maken
Atasaki Holdings
#71 - 2013-05-13 17:32:07 UTC
honestly, cap is an issue for new amarr players, they should have kept the cap bonus to t1 hulls and then change the navy ones to have tracking or some other

on t1 it is excellent for newer players to use and get into to get the isk flowing without as much cap skills, on more expensive ships you can thus expect that players have good cap skills and knows fitting around cap warfare and stick on non crutch bonuses.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-05-13 17:32:52 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
GALLENTE

MEGATHRON NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Thron will be Gallente’s ‘attack’ battleship, and therefore will adjust in many of the same ways that the tech 1 Megathron did, including the switch from damage bonus to rate of fire.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+10% Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 8L; 7 turrets, 1 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 16275 PWG, 630 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9000(-316) / 9500(-461) / 10500(-750)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 6000 (+375) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+10) / .105 (-.005) / 98400000(-6800000) / 15.01s(-1.84s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 25 Magnetometric Sensor Strength (-1.25)
Signature radius: 385(-15)


i bolded the part that needs to be fixed... tracking bonus for the tech I version is ok... but gal need a fleet ship and a mega navy issue can be that fleet ship... and the only way to make it so it to give it a fall off bonus... that will bring large neutrons with null into fleet bs range...

otherwise you are just making a pretty station game ship...


Lol, please never post in balancing threads ever again
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#73 - 2013-05-13 17:32:54 UTC
Looks nice, these should be the T1 version stats tho :)

.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#74 - 2013-05-13 17:34:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Maybe a good moment for marauders rebalance?


We're with you on this. The top of the list has a whole bunch of stuff on it, but Maruaders are there somewhere =)


did i not read somewhere that we are getting new ships for the expansion? like tech II ABC's that are heavy bombers that shoot citadel torps?

or are the new pirate faction noob ships the new ships we are getting?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#75 - 2013-05-13 17:34:44 UTC
Has anyone run the math yet on whether we're seeing more or less applied DPS from the new CNR when firing at some standard targets?

Also, whoo, the NGeddon didn't get changed. I am happy about that.

IrJosy wrote:
I don't use my navy domi with guns can you please change it to be like the regular domi with the drone optimal/tracking bonus?
MeBiatch wrote:

i too was hoping for this... but the flame was so high when they removed the regular domis turret bonus that alas we are stuck with a bonus we dont use.


For those of you without hybrid skills, the normal Domi is right over there in the other thread!

Jonas Sukarala wrote:
I am concerned about how much dps that navy domi has though... any ideas?

... unless I'm missing something, that DPS didn't change at all.

Jureth22 wrote:
so about navy apoc.besides the fact that you guys ruined amarr battleship,you guys are picking now on factiones ones too?

so besides the fact that you guys are removing the capacitor bonus on navy apoc hull,of wich amarr lazors ships desperate need it,because simply lasers are consuming so much cap and then again you guys arent really doing anything about it,you also nerf the capacitor of the ship too.

now,i`m not sure if that i see at stats there is a mistake,but you guys might wanna reconsider

Did you notice the laser changes?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-05-13 17:34:50 UTC
Roime wrote:
Looks nice, these should be the T1 version stats tho :)



Well i think most people are underwhelmed with the T1 changes

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#77 - 2013-05-13 17:35:44 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


RAVEN NAVY ISSUE
The CNR will be Caldari’s attack battleship, like the new tech 1 Raven. I wanted the Navy Raven to get something new, and the new Navy Drake pointed in a pretty good direction. We are giving the CNR an 8th launcher to make up for the loss of the rate of fire bonus, and replacing rate of fire with a bonus to explosion radius. Along with the incoming buff to cruise missiles, this ship is going to be an animal.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 8H, 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 8 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 12000 PWG(+1075), 780 CPU(+45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 10500(-750) / 8000(-1961) / 9500(-461)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5900(+587.5) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 123(+29) / .12(-.008) / 97300000(-2000000) / 16.19s(-1.43s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 105(-1.25) / 7
Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric(+.5)
Signature radius: 410(-50)


I strongly disagree with this. You're nerfing the torp RNI in favor of the cruise variant, and go so far as to explicitly tell us you're basing the entire ship design off of cruise. Then you keep the cruise missile velocity bonus. Given that you're pigeon holing the ship into cruise, doesn't it make far more sense to trade the velocity bonus for the explosion radius bonus instead?

Quote:

SCORPION NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Scorpion is taking the ‘combat’ role for Caldari, and more or less staying in its current form. It will pick up an extra low slot, since it was slot deficient for no reason before. In light of the coming cruise missile change, we are a bit concerned with the power level for the Scorp, so we’ll be keeping a close eye on this one, as we still feel it could wind up being too strong depending on how the meta settles out.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
5% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo rate of fire
4% bonus to shield resistances

Slot layout: 7H, 8M, 5L(+1); 4 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+650), 780 CPU(-7)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 11500(+1538.5) / 8500(+297) / 9000(+797)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 5500(+187.5) / 1100s(+12.5s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 103 / .125(+.009) / 103600000 / 17.95s(+1.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 75 / 7
Sensor strength: 30 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 465(+35)


I honestly have no idea how you foresee this being too strong. The 5th low has a much lower utility for missile battleships (4th damage mod? fitting mod? I'm-a-stupid-head-SPR?). I don't really see the ship as any more powerful than it is today.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#78 - 2013-05-13 17:35:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.


Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)


ok have my space babies... or i yours... i dont care i just want to raise your respective offspring.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#79 - 2013-05-13 17:37:16 UTC
Aimee Maken wrote:
honestly, cap is an issue for new amarr players, they should have kept the cap bonus to t1 hulls and then change the navy ones to have tracking or some other

on t1 it is excellent for newer players to use and get into to get the isk flowing without as much cap skills, on more expensive ships you can thus expect that players have good cap skills and knows fitting around cap warfare and stick on non crutch bonuses.



No remove all cap bonuses and fix the problem that causes those issues. Giving cap bonuses simply move on the fact.

Some changes look good dont like amarr ones though. So in mixed feelings.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#80 - 2013-05-13 17:38:00 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
GALLENTE

MEGATHRON NAVY ISSUE
The Navy Thron will be Gallente’s ‘attack’ battleship, and therefore will adjust in many of the same ways that the tech 1 Megathron did, including the switch from damage bonus to rate of fire.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+10% Large Hybrid Turret falloff

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 8L; 7 turrets, 1 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 16275 PWG, 630 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 9000(-316) / 9500(-461) / 10500(-750)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate): 6000 (+375) / 1150s(-4.875s)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130(+10) / .105 (-.005) / 98400000(-6800000) / 15.01s(-1.84s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 175
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 25 Magnetometric Sensor Strength (-1.25)
Signature radius: 385(-15)


i bolded the part that needs to be fixed... tracking bonus for the tech I version is ok... but gal need a fleet ship and a mega navy issue can be that fleet ship... and the only way to make it so it to give it a fall off bonus... that will bring large neutrons with null into fleet bs range...

otherwise you are just making a pretty station game ship...


Lol, please never post in balancing threads ever again


sorry cant help you out there... falloff is much better then the tracking for fleets...

tracking is nice if you dont have proper tackle but the fall off = more range which is needed for a fleet ship....

and you should know that.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.