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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-05-13 16:47:57 UTC
Want to point to you RIse that the current Fleet phoon with PROJECTILES outdamages the tempest with projectiles. That is sad.. and I did not even factor in the better slot layout of the typhoon.


BOTH the normal and fleet tempest must be more dangerous for a ship with DOUBLE damage bonus. Currently it cannot outdamage the typhoon, maelestrom, Hyperion, Megatron, armageddon in basiccally ANY relevant range !


The tempest current layout + bonus combination is HORRIBLE! IT you insist on keepign it then it would need to gain at LEAST 100/125 drone bay to match what the typhoon do with 1 single bonus!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Commander A9
This Was The Way
#22 - 2013-05-13 16:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander A9
Olaf4862 wrote:
Being a mostly dedicated Gallente pilot here is my feed back.

I will say that its sad that Gallente does not have any 8 gun battleship (I just love the feel of a full rack of guns). Can the Navy Mega get rid of the missile launchers that are basically useless and do not feel right and instead get an 8 gun Mega Navy.

I am ok with the Domi navy being both guns and drones. I always feel Navy issues should be all about damage and thick tank.


Well, the Hyperion did have an 8-gun rack, but with the new changes coming, it's losing some. Of course, its damage output is being increased to compensate, but I can agree-I do love a full rack of 8 guns.

Which, furthermore, depresses me a bit to see that tier-III battlecruisers will be able to pack more large guns than battleships...that doesn't seem right to me.

Recommendations:

-enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters)

-add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot)

-STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!

Join Live Events!
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#23 - 2013-05-13 16:51:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Want to point to you RIse that the current Fleet phoon with PROJECTILES outdamages the tempest with projectiles. That is sad.. and I did not even factor in the better slot layout of the typhoon.


BOTH the normal and fleet tempest must be more dangerous for a ship with DOUBLE damage bonus. Currently it cannot outdamage the typhoon, maelestrom, Hyperion, Megatron, armageddon in basiccally ANY relevant range !


The tempest current layout + bonus combination is HORRIBLE! IT you insist on keepign it then it would need to gain at LEAST 100/125 drone bay to match what the typhoon do with 1 single bonus!

I've given up on the Tempest. Seems set on making it a bigger, slower, more expensive BC.

I for one welcome our new Typhoon Overlords.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
#24 - 2013-05-13 16:51:58 UTC
The Scorpion Navy still has that stupid 4 turret option. Who in their rights minds would fit any guns on a SNI? It isn't a Domi with its 5% blaster bonus (the Domi model is still a turd even in Navy form).

Just get rid of the turrets on the SNI and add +1 missile launcher hardpoint instead. Also a bit of love on PG would be great. Yes, cruises are getting a boost but since the CNR is getting a full rack, make the SNI not have some crap unbonused option for guns.
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#25 - 2013-05-13 16:53:09 UTC
This makes Raven Navy and Golem a bit too similar...

Maybe a good moment for marauders rebalance?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-05-13 16:53:17 UTC
Nessa Aldeen wrote:


Just get rid of the turrets on the SNI and add +1 missile launcher hardpoint instead...


Yeah that's a fair trade Roll

How about we make it 5/5?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-05-13 16:54:52 UTC
Nerfing the Navy Mega doesn't seem warranted, give it an extra turret or something. It's never been good for much other than having an insane buffer tank.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2013-05-13 16:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
You're insane. Range and tracking bonused megapulse with Scorch L ar going to make the battlefield hell for medium and even small ships within 90Km.


Wow, a rebuke from my CSM... yikes. Anyway...

You're assuming Scorch, which is a problem in and of itself. I know Rise already mentioned that lasers as a whole, and beams in particular need a, quote "full balance pass". It's (tracking bonus) utility for Beams and most other crystals is questionable at best.

And it's not within 90km. It's between 90km and ~45km, because under that distance, you aren't hitting a frigate for much if anything with Scorch. You might with I.N. Multi, but not for much more of an effect. So a tracking bonus pretty well doesn't help where it's supposed to.

The straight up damage of the Abaddon will offer you better dps against almost any ship size above cruiser.

On the Amarr Battleship thread, Rise (recently) mentioned that he views this as a viable bonus because it helps deliver improved damage against T3s and attack BCs. Well, the Abaddon's damage bonus is far superior against attack BCs, so that's out.

So we're rebalancing battleship lines just based on T3s. Huh.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-05-13 16:56:01 UTC
N-Apoc - lookign quite sexy
N-geddon - eh i figured this is what it would be but it just feels underwhelming

N-Raven - good god that thing will be a beast
N-scorp - A beast aswell but more along the lines of the rattle snake tank monster kinda beast, with decent cruise damage

N-mega - give it 8 guns, as one person already said no galent BS has 8 guns now which is sad.
N-domi - meh still a DPS monster but like the geddon just dosent ping my intrest.

F-phoon - looks damn sexy, i think allot of people might stick to 4 of each high tho on this thing, not sure, or just go cruise missles.
F-tempest - didnt liek it before dont like it now, i would have prefered as i have said with the F-Cain that you give it something interesting, I relise the Mack has the fall off bonus and the Vaurger has the tracking bonus, but it still feels liek it lacks something.

Over all about what i was expecting, the raven N-issue was the only real suprise. good job
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2013-05-13 16:57:46 UTC
Quote:
Maybe a good moment for marauders rebalance?


We're with you on this. The top of the list has a whole bunch of stuff on it, but Maruaders are there somewhere =)

@ccp_rise
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-05-13 16:58:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Want to point to you RIse that the current Fleet phoon with PROJECTILES outdamages the tempest with projectiles. That is sad.. and I did not even factor in the better slot layout of the typhoon.


BOTH the normal and fleet tempest must be more dangerous for a ship with DOUBLE damage bonus. Currently it cannot outdamage the typhoon, maelestrom, Hyperion, Megatron, armageddon in basiccally ANY relevant range !


The tempest current layout + bonus combination is HORRIBLE! IT you insist on keepign it then it would need to gain at LEAST 100/125 drone bay to match what the typhoon do with 1 single bonus!


LOL if you compare it to the phoon they have same slot layout and same turrets the difference in drones and bonuses still favour the phoon for dps ....
A solution is too change the tempest to have a tracking bonus and a attack emphasis as a combat role doesn't work when the phoon is so strong ...
maybe phoon could lose some drones but that defeats the point of keeping it as is so .... tempest needs to change i think only the mach has a tracking bonus of all projectile ships.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-05-13 16:58:22 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:


N-Raven - good god that thing will be a beast


Remember that it's losing the damage bonus: it now has 8 effective launchers, the same as the standard Raven.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#33 - 2013-05-13 16:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP Rise wrote:
ARMAGEDDON NAVY ISSUE
...
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(+200)/


375 dronebay, thats a typo - right?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#34 - 2013-05-13 16:59:32 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Maybe a good moment for marauders rebalance?


We're with you on this. The top of the list has a whole bunch of stuff on it, but Maruaders are there somewhere =)


This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2013-05-13 17:01:07 UTC
Somehow typo'd the Navy Thron - its not losing a drone - sorry about that.

@ccp_rise
Nessa Aldeen
First Among Equals
#36 - 2013-05-13 17:02:22 UTC
Wait. The Tempest has the same malady as the SNI - unbonused craphola. If you want it to be come the premium combat ship with 6 guns it isn't going to cut it. Not when you have the Typhoon and other surpassing it in DPS. The Typhoon is good with it's twin bonuses but it won't work on a Tempest or the SNI. 7 guns on the Tempest and 7 Launchers on the SNI. And more PG.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2013-05-13 17:03:05 UTC
Quote:
This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.


Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)

@ccp_rise
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#38 - 2013-05-13 17:03:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Want to point to you RIse that the current Fleet phoon with PROJECTILES outdamages the tempest with projectiles. That is sad.. and I did not even factor in the better slot layout of the typhoon.


BOTH the normal and fleet tempest must be more dangerous for a ship with DOUBLE damage bonus. Currently it cannot outdamage the typhoon, maelestrom, Hyperion, Megatron, armageddon in basiccally ANY relevant range !


The tempest current layout + bonus combination is HORRIBLE! IT you insist on keepign it then it would need to gain at LEAST 100/125 drone bay to match what the typhoon do with 1 single bonus!


Phoon is supposed to outgank it...

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-05-13 17:04:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.


Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)


please tell me TD's with missiles are on there and command links /T3 nerf and command ships

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#40 - 2013-05-13 17:06:21 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
This list. I don't suppose we can get any sneak peeks at what's in store for rebalance in the near future? Not in any order, obviously, but just to see what's on the menu.


Of course, no promises in terms of order or anything - but the short list includes things like medium rails, hacs, eafs, beams, some other t2 classes like inties/maurders, and some other mods which i don't want to name atm incase they get pushed back awhile. =)


Much appreciated!

Interceptors, hmm... that sounds very interesting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.