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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2621 - 2013-05-10 13:52:47 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Naso Aya wrote:
... believe it was in response to people claiming he Armageddon to be too OP.

Just goes to show that he sucks at giving people grey hairs .. he should have allowed people to fit all neuts and then laughed maniacally when they realised that they have no hope in hell of actually using all that suction due to cap restrictions Smile

lmao, this one I agree with!
ghost st
Sua Sponte
#2622 - 2013-05-10 18:33:18 UTC
CCP wants amarr to have lasers, and drones, and neuts, and all kinds of bullshit.

I understand that overlapping roles is a bad thing, but maybe CCP needs to look at ways to do it without homogenising everything.

They are also opening a new can of worms as far as overlapping roles with faction ships.


Different size ships performing similar roles also need to look similar.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#2623 - 2013-05-11 00:22:40 UTC
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2624 - 2013-05-11 01:48:19 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.

Before you do, actually check the fittings on it, try mocking up a few sample fits, then go and cry over them.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#2625 - 2013-05-11 02:37:35 UTC
It's obviously meant to have a rack of medium neuts. Hah
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2626 - 2013-05-11 03:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tank Talbot
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.




Every person that was happy when they saw the ship at first got TROLLED by CCP when they actually tried to fit it to fly. It's like thinking you are getting a hot date only to find out that its with a transvestite after dinner once you peel off the dress and not swinging that way. The disappointment becomes palpable.

Cry
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#2627 - 2013-05-11 07:25:13 UTC
Tank Talbot wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.




Every person that was happy when they saw the ship at first got TROLLED by CCP when they actually tried to fit it to fly. It's like thinking you are getting a hot date only to find out that its with a transvestite after dinner once you peel off the dress and not swinging that way. The disappointment becomes palpable.

Cry


I believe Pattern is speaking from experience of testing the ship on the test server. Check the other racial bs threads where he also comments on those.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#2628 - 2013-05-11 11:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Nikuno wrote:
Tank Talbot wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.




Every person that was happy when they saw the ship at first got TROLLED by CCP when they actually tried to fit it to fly. It's like thinking you are getting a hot date only to find out that its with a transvestite after dinner once you peel off the dress and not swinging that way. The disappointment becomes palpable.

Cry


I believe Pattern is speaking from experience of testing the ship on the test server. Check the other racial bs threads where he also comments on those.

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#2629 - 2013-05-11 13:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashlar Vellum
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
Tank Talbot wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Torp/Drone/Neut Geddon means i'm training amarr BS 5. My God.




Every person that was happy when they saw the ship at first got TROLLED by CCP when they actually tried to fit it to fly. It's like thinking you are getting a hot date only to find out that its with a transvestite after dinner once you peel off the dress and not swinging that way. The disappointment becomes palpable.

Cry


I believe Pattern is speaking from experience of testing the ship on the test server. Check the other racial bs threads where he also comments on those.

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.

So you are making old neuting Phoon but without 1 neut and slower or old neuting Raven but slower and armor tanked, you can't make old neuting Domi with highs full of neuts.

So please explain more why bonus on +10% Neut range is needed on this hull, what it adds that old neut Phoon or neut Raven or even neut Domi did not have without it.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2630 - 2013-05-11 14:04:52 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#2631 - 2013-05-11 14:19:20 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.

5 unbonused torps do more dps than most things and the things that do out damage it, won't fit. If your complaining about the neut range bonus, - it's a nice bonus, not over powered, and more useful than it's not, for modules most people would fit on this ship regardless. All of the things you're nitpicking might be small tweaks to fittings - but compared to some of the other ships, it's fittings are not too bad at all. Either way, this ship is far better than the current dominix, better to fit, better to fly and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the domi or tempest.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2632 - 2013-05-11 15:01:17 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.

5 unbonused torps do more dps than most things and the things that do out damage it, won't fit. If your complaining about the neut range bonus, - it's a nice bonus, not over powered, and more useful than it's not, for modules most people would fit on this ship regardless. All of the things you're nitpicking might be small tweaks to fittings - but compared to some of the other ships, it's fittings are not too bad at all. Either way, this ship is far better than the current dominix, better to fit, better to fly and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the domi or tempest.



It seems to me that Cruise Missiles would be an option for this ship. If you did four cruise launchers and three unstable heavy neuts you would free up 824 PG and 100 CPU to put elsewhere on your fit. You could then T2 your tank or get a second DDA to mitigate the DPS loss. The cruise range is more practical.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#2633 - 2013-05-11 15:10:31 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.

5 unbonused torps do more dps than most things and the things that do out damage it, won't fit. If your complaining about the neut range bonus, - it's a nice bonus, not over powered, and more useful than it's not, for modules most people would fit on this ship regardless. All of the things you're nitpicking might be small tweaks to fittings - but compared to some of the other ships, it's fittings are not too bad at all. Either way, this ship is far better than the current dominix, better to fit, better to fly and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the domi or tempest.

So, are you saying that neut range bonus is nice to have like a giveaway freebie that people give out on game conventions like PAX etc., but are not really needed? Indeed, that is a great thought process for a bonus.
Based on all that, sorry I disagree that GedDomi is "making a hell of a lot more sense" than the new Domi.

And come on don't bring Tempes in here, we have our own shining gem like that - Apoc.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2634 - 2013-05-11 15:12:44 UTC
got to say i really like the geddon

3 nuets
4 cruise II (high damage ammo)

mids:
mjd
mwd
long point
cap injector

lows:
dcu II
1600 II
reactive armor
2 adaptives II
2 drone damage II

rigs:
3 trimarks

drones:
5 heavy II
5 sentry II
5 medium II
5 light II
5 ecm 600
i was playing around with this on the test server its a smexy ship...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#2635 - 2013-05-11 15:34:11 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

I'm using

5x Torpedo Launcher II
2x Unstable Power Drain

100mn Prototype MWD
x5 Web
Cap Injector
Warp Distruptor

2x Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reactive Armour Hardener
Internal Force Field Array
2x 1600mm RT plates
Drone Damage Amplifier

3x Trimarks



It is tight on the CPU hence the t1 and adaptive nano plates, but consider this, as current, not a raven nor the phoon can fit a full rack of torpedos + a single neut. They just run out of power grid and cpu. The fact as it stands that you can squeeze all that on the Geddon is fantastic. Not that I believe the fittings are final.
The Domi doesn't come close, has no where near the power grid to fit 2x neuts + anything else, not that domi highs do anything viable for DPS anyway.

CCP Rise needs to decide whether these ships get tier 3 fittings to go with their tier 3 price tags, because as it stands, attack battleships have unnecessarily crappy fittings, especially cpu.


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.

5 unbonused torps do more dps than most things and the things that do out damage it, won't fit. If your complaining about the neut range bonus, - it's a nice bonus, not over powered, and more useful than it's not, for modules most people would fit on this ship regardless. All of the things you're nitpicking might be small tweaks to fittings - but compared to some of the other ships, it's fittings are not too bad at all. Either way, this ship is far better than the current dominix, better to fit, better to fly and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the domi or tempest.



It seems to me that Cruise Missiles would be an option for this ship. If you did four cruise launchers and three unstable heavy neuts you would free up 824 PG and 100 CPU to put elsewhere on your fit. You could then T2 your tank or get a second DDA to mitigate the DPS loss. The cruise range is more practical.

Cruise missiles and sentries have the best synergy with 45km neuts I agree, and the fact that you have that option is also impressive. You can go short or long, the domi doesn't come close to having that flexibility or synergy.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Zeb DaMadMan2
Duckling System
#2636 - 2013-05-11 16:22:48 UTC
Dunno how everybody else feels, but stop making every race have 1 of everything.
If I want a drone boat I'll train gallente.
If I want a missile boat I'll train caldari.
If I want a laser boat I'll train amarr.
If I want a speedy boat I'll train minmatar.
If you keep making it where everybody has everything, it would ruin the point of even researching and picking depending on your playstyle.
What's next? Shield/Armor ships for every race? - Seriously, DON'T do this.

As far as amarr goes, there cap issues are too damn high.
The armageddon should be a mobile close range brawler like it use to... not a drone boat, and definitely not a missile boat.
The Apoc should be a sniper, like it is.
The abaddon should be the tanky/med range/slow mobility, like it was.

"As soon as we stop asking about the launcher design, CCP will assume we already love it.

We won't." - Eve Community
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2637 - 2013-05-11 18:08:00 UTC
Problem is Zeb, is that the dev team (and for prominence's sake, CCP Rise) have absolutely zero chance of changing these ships to the designs they where.

Its too close to Odyssey's release to be changed without causing it to slip due to having to "re-rebalance" the Amarr back again, and there has been so little information back to us about our concerns from CCP Rise, that we have an insignificant chance that the guy actually cares any more, now that his beloved Gallente are becoming powerhouses in place of the Amarr.

I would suggest to Rise (and any other dev that is paying lip service to this thread) that those people being silent aren't willingly accepting your changes. Either they don't care, to which they have my pity, or they don't know: Stick up a Dev Blog with EXACTLY the things you are changing - individual ones for each race if necessary - place a banner into everyones game, much like you do with various PLEX adverts.

Going forward with these changes, much like I mentioned in the Battlecruisers thread a while back, needs to be taken with far more care than what is currently happening. Rushing to meet deadlines is one thing; if things don't have 100% polish we can deal with it. Rushing in things that are inherently broken is utterly inexcusable.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#2638 - 2013-05-11 18:45:28 UTC
Good changes. Keep up the exelent work CCP.

The Tears Must Flow
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#2639 - 2013-05-11 19:17:12 UTC
Ok... I played with those fits. (I don't have Armor Compensation to 5 so take that into consideration).

First:
mjd fit looks cool I didn't think about this fit earlier so I played with it first.
so with that fit I got 95k ehp Ugh and that is so not great, mjd or not.

Second:
Pattern now your proposed fit is literally neut Phoon but worse.
With x2 1600 RT fited I have 112k ehp, but if you fit same stuff and I do mean literally copy paste your fit on Phoon it will have 86k ehp +1 more med slot(cause not a drone boat), will be faster, more agile and have more dps.

You could have 1238 dps overheated on old neut Phoon (with 111k ehp) you could probably do it now on new if not more, but you could not do it on new Geddon.

So please explain how is GedDomi better and how neut range bonus is more useful than it's not(unless if you suggest none bonus at all Big smile. Then I do agree something is better than nothing).
You have no idea how I want to embrace this changes, minmatar got 1 Tempest amarr have 3 of them now. So please let me see the light and tell me that at least one of new amarr ships is not a Tempest.

Vaju Enki wrote:
Good changes. Keep up the exelent work CCP.

Ho ho ho, I see what you did there. Lol Yes they are exelent, some might say they are too exelent.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2640 - 2013-05-11 19:21:10 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:


Honestly i dont see the point of this fit. 5 unbonused torps do crappy dps. The range of your weapons is lower then the range of neutralizers so the "bonus" to range is wasted. Not like you could control that range anyway with that speed. Reactive armor hardeners are awful, it has ~130k ehp and terrible resists with 6 slots and 3 rigs dedicated to tank. And it will probably cost over 350 mil.

5 unbonused torps do more dps than most things and the things that do out damage it, won't fit. If your complaining about the neut range bonus, - it's a nice bonus, not over powered, and more useful than it's not, for modules most people would fit on this ship regardless. All of the things you're nitpicking might be small tweaks to fittings - but compared to some of the other ships, it's fittings are not too bad at all. Either way, this ship is far better than the current dominix, better to fit, better to fly and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the domi or tempest.


If you take standard baddon hellcat fit and replace two turrets with neuts you will get a ship that has same on paper dps (probably more real dps since it does not rely on Ogres for most of its damage), better ehp, much better resists, more speed. Or you can do the same thing on Rokh or even Maelstorm.

No one does that. Because it sucks.